R192: Champion Rewards Updates

JHawkInc

We really need a clarification here.

And maybe for people to put down the pitchforks and lay off the insults until we get one. (I have no problem admitting that maybe we should keep those pitchforks close, but there's too much hate going on for something we aren't certain about)

DarthDeVo

There should have been a breakdown for say, G4mora at Level 370 (a 4* that currently feeds a 5*) and one for Cyclops (a 4* that will become a new 5* feeder). People would have been able to then look at whatever level their G4moras and Cyclopses were at and deduced what their retroactive rewards would be. 

If your G4mora is only Level 335, then look at the retroactive rewards up to that point. If your Cyclops is Level 352, same story. 

Should have done the same with Level 266 3*s getting a new secondary 4* feeder and Level 266 3*s not getting a new feeder, and Level 144 2*s.

This would have covered all bases and scenarios. People with max champs at any tier would have instantly known exactly what they should expect to get for each character (4* currently a 5* feeder, 4* becoming a 5* feeder, 3* gaining a secondary 4* feeder, 3* with one 4* feeder, 2*s). 

People with less than a max champ would have just needed to look at where their individual characters will fall to see the retroactive rewards up to that point.

At this point, I don't even know what to expect for any of my characters. They could short me shards by accident, and I probably wouldn't even notice. Maybe that's the point. 🤔

EDIT: I understand this update came late at night and that I'm totally armchair quarterbacking this thing. So perhaps consider it a constructive criticism or suggestion for the next time there's an update making substantial changes like this.

Just give a detailed breakdown of relevant changes for a max champed character for each scenario. Let us then figure out how that applies to our individual characters that fall within those scenarios. 

Vhailorx

JHawkInc said:

We really need a clarification here.

And maybe for people to put down the pitchforks and lay off the insults until we get one. (I have no problem admitting that maybe we should keep those pitchforks close, but there's too much hate going on for something we aren't certain about)

But where is the hate?

Skepticism and critique are not insults. Nor, imo, is good natured snark (though surely reasonable minds can disagree about what constitutes 'good natured.')  For my part I don't hate demi or d3 and try always to be polite to their employees on these forums.  But that doesn't (and shouldn't) prevent me from being clear-eyed about the fact that players and demi/3 have diverse, often competing interests, nor from wishing/suggesting that players should perhaps be a bit more vocal about their own interests here on the forums.

shap328

Do we get the mighty token for level 143 on our 2*s?

HoundofShadow

If we follow the example used on 2* and apply it on 4*, a 370 Gamora won't get any retroactive reward, but if she is at 357, she will get 100 5* shards as retroactive reward.

For 3*, no example was used for secondary shards. So, if it was not being mentioned, I assume that we won't get retroactive shards for them.

As for Mighty Tokens, I doubt they are going to give them as retroactive rewards since the updates center around only shards and covers.

I hope there isn't any player expecting the devs to give them 2500 + 500 Peter Parker shards for their 360 Vulture.

pheregas

HoundofShadow said:

I hope there isn't any player expecting the devs to give them 2500 + 500 Peter Parker shards for their 360 Vulture.

I'm down with this.  We got our Parker covers in a different form, but still got them.

Where I am not down with this is if I don't get "2500 + 500" Rescue Shards for my max champed Hulkbuster.

ThaRoadWarrior

Secondary Shards are effectively a variation on a character that didn't get fed being fed, I would have expected to get whatever those are retroactively.

I can see it going either way on a 370 G4mora - There are "new" shard drop levels that lead up to the old discreet cover milestones replacing the CP that was there before that I would kind of expect to get, even though to do so across the course of a 370 would effectively be like getting extra 5* covers. I'm not in that situation with anyone save Chavez who is at 350, but I do have some characters at 30X that I'm curious what will happen to their shards. Probably nothing, it sounds like.

Mighty Tokens would be a nice gesture, but I don't recall any precedent for that to know one way or the other. 

Razuhlui

They've should it introduce like, you would get every newly changed reward except for those of which you got already the full cover. 
Lvl 266 3* Wolvi would reward 600 Sabertooth shards, but no primary X-Wolvi. Lvl 266 Colossus would reward 1200 Magik shards, but no secondary X-Wolvi 
A lvl 300 C4rol would get no reward, a lvl 296 C4rol would get 100 shards. All new feeder would get their whole champion lvl rewards. Not talking about Might Tokens 

Vhailorx

pheregas said:

HoundofShadow said:

I hope there isn't any player expecting the devs to give them 2500 + 500 Peter Parker shards for their 360 Vulture.

I'm down with this.  We got our Parker covers in a different form, but still got them.

Where I am not down with this is if I don't get "2500 + 500" Rescue Shards for my max champed Hulkbuster.

But would it really be so bad to just double up and give out shards wherever they have been added?

Even if a player already had a level 360 Medusa, and had already gotten 6x BB covers, what is the problem? anyone with a Medusa that high is going to be a serious 5* player (it's basically impossible to get that many 4* covers without opening a lot of LTs).  How much to 6 champ levels matter to full 5* players?  It's maybe a few thousand more health/power strength, and slightly harder mmr.  It's potentially good or bad for tanking purposes, depending on who gets the levels.  And anyone who is motivated to chase 5*s will still need to spend/grind to keep doing so, especially since the high-end champ rewards have been nerfed. I dont think it is likely to affect gameplay or spending in a meaningful way.

That said, I can see a decent fairness argument that double covers is too much of an advantage for the rich, and only offering double rewards where new feeders have been added. And skimping on rewards for the lower tier players for fear that a few super whales would get too much doesn't make sense.  The super whales already get way more than the masses by definition.

HoundofShadow

I think you will get 1 cover + 2500 shards + 500 bonus shards for your Hulkbuster instead because new feeder will get a bonus 100 shards for every 250 shards milestone and there are five 250 shards milestones.

I hope there is clarification on secondary shards. The fact that only 3* feeders have secondary shards and they didn't mention anything about them seems to be implying that there won't be any, based on their usual communication style. 

bluewolf

Re:  3's.....it might be that it would be far too complicated to sweep up the  "new" 4 shards when you've got some 3's that keep the same old 4 as primary and some 3's with a new 4 as primary.

And the new, previously unfed 4 (one way or the other) is almost certainly the one that the majority of players would prefer to get shards for.  But making the system work so that those were rewarded was too complicated.

Maybe.

Vhailorx

bluewolf said:

Re:  3's.....it might be that it would be far too complicated to sweep up the  "new" 4 shards when you've got some 3's that keep the same old 4 as primary and some 3's with a new 4 as primary.

And the new, previously unfed 4 (one way or the other) is almost certainly the one that the majority of players would prefer to get shards for.  But making the system work so that those were rewarded was too complicated.

Maybe.

Does it really have to be that complicated?

Why not just give out new rewards wherever the champ rewards have been changed for a level that a player has already achieved?

If this causes some problems where shards have been spread out across 3 different levels, why not just keep all the shards in 1 level as a 1:1 swap from the prior LT/cover rewards?

This whole convoluted mess is a bandaid made necessary by the decision to nerf champion rewards.  Why go through the whole process when there are simpler alternatives?  Perhaps because the main goal was nerfing the rewards, so everything else must serve that primary objective.  It's complexity used to disguise the net effect. . .

pheregas

Vhailorx said:

pheregas said:

HoundofShadow said:

I hope there isn't any player expecting the devs to give them 2500 + 500 Peter Parker shards for their 360 Vulture.

I'm down with this.  We got our Parker covers in a different form, but still got them.

Where I am not down with this is if I don't get "2500 + 500" Rescue Shards for my max champed Hulkbuster.

But would it really be so bad to just double up and give out shards wherever they have been added?

Even if a player already had a level 360 Medusa, and had already gotten 6x BB covers, what is the problem? anyone with a Medusa that high is going to be a serious 5* player (it's basically impossible to get that many 4* covers without opening a lot of LTs).  How much to 6 champ levels matter to full 5* players?  It's maybe a few thousand more health/power strength, and slightly harder mmr.  It's potentially good or bad for tanking purposes, depending on who gets the levels.  And anyone who is motivated to chase 5*s will still need to spend/grind to keep doing so, especially since the high-end champ rewards have been nerfed. I dont think it is likely to affect gameplay or spending in a meaningful way.

That said, I can see a decent fairness argument that double covers is too much of an advantage for the rich, and only offering double rewards where new feeders have been added. And skimping on rewards for the lower tier players for fear that a few super whales would get too much doesn't make sense.  The super whales already get way more than the masses by definition.

I agree with you that it would have been nice to double dip.  However, while it might be nice, I cannot convince myself to get mad about only single dipping.  It's the half-dips I get cranky about when others will eventually get a full scoop.

Time will tell though.  I think Ice should have given an example with a level 370 4* with a new 5* champ reward.  The max champ rewards may have only applied to a smaller subset of the player base, but everyone would have gotten useful information from it.

rawfsu

@IceIX What happens if I have a maxed Champion on my roster when the update goes through? Will that character still be eligible for retro rewards?

Vhailorx

pheregas said:

I agree with you that it would have been nice to double dip.  However, while it might be nice, I cannot convince myself to get mad about only single dipping.  It's the half-dips I get cranky about when others will eventually get a full scoop.

Time will tell though.  I think Ice should have given an example with a level 370 4* with a new 5* champ reward.  The max champ rewards may have only applied to a smaller subset of the player base, but everyone would have gotten useful information from it.

Yeah, this alone doesn't seem like a decision to get excercised about.  It's a much bigger problem if people whole have a 360 IMHB get < 6 total covers (via covers or shards) for rescue because they got those champ levels before R192.

But my main point is that hound was, apparently, taking the position that would be obviously absurd for players to want double covers for level 360+ champs that already had feeder.  And I just don't think it would be a big deal either way.

CT1888

Twysta said:

Will this retroactively give us all the rewards for characters we've sold previously too - that are no longer on our roster?

No it won't, its only those currently on your roster you get this for. 

pheregas

Whelp.  It's live.  Let's see what happened...

BoyWonder1914

IceIX said:

• Your Bullseye (Dark Avengers) is level 120. You received a Bullseye (Classic) Black cover at level 115 before the change. You would have received 100 Bullseye (Classic) Shards at 119 with the change. So you will receive these Shards when the update happens to ensure you can continue progress to the next Bullseye (Classic) cover.

Now we have an exception! Some 4-Stars gained a new Champion reward! For these characters, you will gain the Cover reward at 280 if it has been reached. Then, you will gain the same rewards as detailed above for the current level of your Champion. In addition, you will gain 100 Shards per 250 Shard milestone you have passed. Meaning that if you have a level 317 Professor X (Charles Xavier), you will gain the 280 Cover, 100 Shards from having passed 315 where you are currently working towards a cover, and a bonus 100 Shards from having passed 300.

TLDR, if you would have missed Shards towards a cover but *haven’t yet received that cover in full*, you’ll get those Shards. So if you would have been working towards a cover before and now you’re working toward Shards, you’ll have the Shards up till then to equal the cover. As before, this also means that if you’ve gotten Shards from elsewhere, you’ll be even further on with snagging another cover!

This is a lot to digest, but we’re excited to bring this massive update to Champion Rewards to the game *this week*, and for players to start getting more Tokens and Shards for their additional covers they’re adding to their characters!

So I wouldn't get the 200 shards that I would have otherwise gotten at Level 115. Figured they wouldn't be quite that nice. This "250 shard milestone" is new however, I don't ever recall that being mentioned. That seems a weird milestone when you're only going to hit it once on the way to a 5-star cover, and then hitting twice means you're going to be award 100 shards towards a new cover that you might not necessarily want. I hope there are still more details to come on this. 

randomhero1090

randomhero1090 said:

HoundofShadow said:

I'm interpreting it as your 317 prof x will get these:

1 cover(280)
500 shards (300)
additional 100 shards
additional 100 shards for 320 prof x

But your 360 Vulture is not going to get an additional

2500 5* Peter Park shards

I agree with you.

It appears a max 4* who is a new feeder will get 500 total bonus shards.  So equals 7 total covers.

I wasn't expecting shards/covers if a feeder already existed.  I expected shards in any instance where a feeder didn't exist (3s, 4s and 5s).  Not sure if that is happening.  I need to get the slide rule out.

It appears we were WAY wrong.  Wow, not good at all.  All I got for my 304 HB was 1 cover and 100 bonus shards.  I didn’t get the 500 I was expect for a NEW feeder. 

AXP_isme

Very stingy. Very stingy indeed. Got my ‘rewards’ which, compared to previous examples, were few and far between. I feel very let down by this. 

It wasn’t even as generous as the low-ball estimates. My lvl 307 cyclops gave me one cable cover and 100 shards. No 100 shards for the milestone at 300, even. Feeling seriously salty right now.