New Event - Support Circuit Updated (1/28/19)

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  • Ed_Dragonrider
    Ed_Dragonrider Posts: 593 Critical Contributor
    broll said:
    Also why in the world are these new support stores always showing vs only showing when you have tokens?  Making them only show unless you had tokens (or there was some buy option) was genius and a great way to cut down on the ridiculous amount of cluttered screens in the recruit section.  I hope that's just a mistake/oversight.
     I get that you hate supports and everything associated with them, with every fiber of your being, but just no. 

    Invisible stores do not entice or motivate. They do not temp. The 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude is not the best when you actually want people spending and chasing after things.

    I for one hate being exluded from things. Even things im not yet eligible for. But maybe ask for a toggle or button to help you hide it, if this upsets you so much...
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll said:
    Also why in the world are these new support stores always showing vs only showing when you have tokens?  Making them only show unless you had tokens (or there was some buy option) was genius and a great way to cut down on the ridiculous amount of cluttered screens in the recruit section.  I hope that's just a mistake/oversight.
    The Support Store, which is now going to update with the current pool of Supports on an ongoing basis, has been an always-existing page for some time now.  Unlike Elites, for example, it remains even if you have no tokens to use.  I assume this change was made because there have (before now) been times when there was literally no way to actually purchase or attempt to chase Support tokens in the game.  (Usually during new release events, and I think, bosses.)  So in case you forgot about Supports, you would see the Support page as a reminder that they are in the game and could sometimes be acquired.

    The new omnipresent Support Circuit Vault corrects that situation (in terms of a store always existing regardless of which event is running).  Those who are uninterested in Supports should probably be glad the SC Vault is at the far right of the other store pages (besides any post event tokens you may have).

    If for some reason anyone hasn't opened the old Supports, you probably should just do that now to cut down on Store Page Clutter.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    HoundofShadow said:
    The reason why I didn't include Elite or even Standard Tokens, DDQ, PvE etc is because there are too many variables to make a fair comparison. Even if you factor in BH, it's every 100 Heroics token pull on average to get one 3* bonus heroes. Besides, you can't control what colours of the cover you can get. You just spelled out that you need weeks to champion a 3* and we are not even talking about max champing. You don't need weeks to reach the max level of whatever Rank you got for support, you need 1 pull, the right pull, which is going to take seconds to get that.

    Also, the reason why I chose 3* and 5* as examples is because it was chosen at random. 

    Secondly, I have no idea what you meant by this:

    "As you have on more than one ocassion used my exact argument above (except without anywhere near the same amount of guaranteed covers) to argue that players should be easily able to prep for SHIELD Training...."

    I think you got the wrong person because I was never an advocate for players to be able to complete SHIELD Training easily. 

    Players right now can easily get Rank 3 Supports. It's up to them to pull the trigger. Players can get guaranteed support tokens for 4800HP or 250CP in HfH store if they don't feel like competing for placement to get those tokens or to try their luck at vault.  They are only seconds away.
    What I meant was that you have frequently listed all the ways to obtain 4* covers for SHIELD Training (most of which normally required placement) to demonstrate that complaints about use of new characters is invalid in such events. Yet you flipped the logic on that when it came to comparing how "easy" it is to champion a 3* by using very narrowly defined parameters.

    You also never mentioned any equivalence to a "max champed 3*" - you said getting a 3* character from 0 to 13 covers.

    You can control the colour of covers you get from DDQ, PvE, PvP and Champ rewards as they are specified.

    So would we agree that in fact, obtaining a 3* Support by anything other than RNG or spending is actually much harder than champing a 3*?
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    Ed_Dragonrider said:
    broll said:
    Also why in the world are these new support stores always showing vs only showing when you have tokens?  Making them only show unless you had tokens (or there was some buy option) was genius and a great way to cut down on the ridiculous amount of cluttered screens in the recruit section.  I hope that's just a mistake/oversight.
     I get that you hate supports and everything associated with them, with every fiber of your being, but just no. 

    Invisible stores do not entice or motivate. They do not temp. The 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude is not the best when you actually want people spending and chasing after things.

    I for one hate being exluded from things. Even things im not yet eligible for. But maybe ask for a toggle or button to help you hide it, if this upsets you so much...
    You say this but I've played plenty of better games that don't practice this.  Some even hiding all their pay real money things under a single offers tab that is optional.  I'm not about rewarding/excusing bad behavior.  Beside the actual pay real money stuff you're talking about is in H4H and not the support store.  H4H does always show and I'm 100% fine with that.  I would also be fine with the supports store always showing if it had a spend HP/CP/Real Money option on it.  But it doesn't, so it's unneeded clutter.  IMO there's no valid excuse for this.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's because I'm using different arguments for different contexts. Players are not happy about Dev using newer 4* as part of the three essentials in shield training because it means they are unlikely to complete every single nodes. The only players who can complete every nodes are only whales.  I simply list out that how competitively you play in PvE and PvP will determine how many covers you get. If you are not competitive and are a casual player, then simply adjust your expectation about how far you can complete Shield Training. 

    For the comparison between levelling and earning Support and Character, I don't expect the developers to put basic or even advance support tokens in progression. It's simply too easy to "complete" support if they did that. 

    Some wants the devs to put Beginner support or Advance token without playing for placement. It's unlikely to happen unless the devs change the way support is being levelled up or implement an "Ascension" feature for support where you can level up a particular support using a duplicate of that same support.  

    I have not even touched on Hero Points or even Roster Slots. You don't need to spend a single HP to roster support unlike characters. 

    And support is pretty broken. 


    To your question, because of the way support are being levelled up, how there are only 42 Supports that can be pulled right now, and how broken they can be, I say "yes" that guaranteed Rank 3 and above support should not be made easily available to every single player.  It should be more difficult than champing a 3*. 

    If you want it, earn it by fighting for it. Else spend 4800HP or 250CP to get it, or open the vault to get them. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    That is fine but it is a change from what you were originally saying that a rank 3 Support was equivalent to a champed 3*. I understand the ease of reference you chose but it isn't accurate. Perhaps it would be fairer to say that a rank 3 Support is the equivalent to a champed 4* in terms of expectation of being able to obtain for the playerbase?
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Tony_Foot said:
    I don’t even like the odds on daily deal so not pulling that either. I think I’d rather just once a month buy the HFH Hp purchase get a 4* cover and the 5 tokens for a guarantee chance of RNG. If I bought the heroic daily deal I might have switched to this vault but don’t fancy getting in the habit of 2800hp every month for a vault containing so many 2*.

    2800 HP is the cost of a Heroic tenpack. I Think it's pretty good to get 28 items for that cost instead of 10+, even though it would be better if there was no red or Purple ISO in the vault.
  • ZeiramMR
    ZeiramMR Posts: 1,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've been reading this thread, but somehow I missed or misread the memo that the 9 nodes would still have a point cooldown like a usual story event. Swore I saw that they were 4 clears and done (for points, I knew there were still more node rewards). I like Supports but am not going to get up at 5:30am to attempt to Top 3 my bracket.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    ZeiramMR said:
    I've been reading this thread, but somehow I missed or misread the memo that the 9 nodes would still have a point cooldown like a usual story event. Swore I saw that they were 4 clears and done (for points, I knew there were still more node rewards). I like Supports but am not going to get up at 5:30am to attempt to Top 3 my bracket.
    4 clears + the pins gets you full progression but the other nodes do have 2 more possible clears.
  • NotBAMF
    NotBAMF Posts: 408 Mover and Shaker
    The last thing I am interested in is MORE PVE. This seems like a weekly skip event for me.
  • BatteryHorse
    BatteryHorse Posts: 124 Tile Toppler
    pheregas said:
    <sarcasm mode enabled>
    Finished t50.  Got two tokens.  3000 Riso, 1500 iso.  Have pulled 8/240 out of that vault.  I've not seen a single support.
    #workingasintended #supportsmoreaccessible #CanIGrindMorePlease
    <sarcasm mode off>
    Pffft, rookie.  This big winner right here got a basic support token, opened it and got a 1* duplicate support that automatically converted to extra RISO.  

    So, I guess you could say it was totally worth it.  
  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    BatteryHorse said:
    pheregas said:
    <sarcasm mode enabled>
    Finished t50.  Got two tokens.  3000 Riso, 1500 iso.  Have pulled 8/240 out of that vault.  I've not seen a single support.
    #workingasintended #supportsmoreaccessible #CanIGrindMorePlease
    <sarcasm mode off>
    Pffft, rookie.  This big winner right here got a basic support token, opened it and got a 1* duplicate support that automatically converted to extra RISO.  

    So, I guess you could say it was totally worth it.  
    At the reduced Riso reward amounts too!
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    I got second in my CL9 bracket, good for an Advanced Support Token, which yielded a Rank 2 Kimoyo Beads.

    At least it was one I didn't already have, but not exactly what I would call thrilling.

    I appreciated the extra resources, and overall don't think I committed more than an hour total to this event. But that's pretty much where the list of positives ends. 
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    edited January 2019
     :



    I spend more time scrolling past certain forum posts than I do 1-clicking past idle store pages in the game. 

    Anyway, the event was fun and I got an easy T50 finish in CL9. I'd expect future events may be even less competitive for placement, so for the extra grinding I'd hope to get some decent vault scores throughout the month.
    Got a tier 2 duplicate, but I had no reasonable expectations for nabbing a tier 4 Support during the 1st Circuit run. 

    Many of us appreciate the work that went into this, please listen to the many good suggestions if we are able to make some enhancements. 
  • spidyjedi84
    spidyjedi84 Posts: 514 Critical Contributor
    1882 said:
    I think D3go missed a trick with the new support thing! I believe they should have made it like DDQ. But you earn a master support token not a LL on the big one. Seems a lot of work the way they have done it. Imo. 
    That's exactly what I was hoping it would be instead of the grindfest we got, but only run once a week. 
  • Punter1
    Punter1 Posts: 729 Critical Contributor

    Does the node superstore only sell nodes in multiples of 3?

    Why does this event need the same 9 nodes we normally get?  Sure the enemies were a bit more varied, but we still have to tap our way through trivial nodes and then 6 regular nodes.  The boss nodes were interesting but not a huge challenge for 3x champed 5s.

    Reduce the node count if it's only 24h.  Encourage roster variety and experimentation by removing the timed component and placement.  Encourage support usage somehow (i'm struggling to think how). 

    Add something different, not just more of the same.  This feels like a regular PVE idea that was picked off the shelf and re-purposed.  The whole thing demonstrates the devs inability to think creatively and that they are hamstrung by long ago design decisions that limit their ability to think about trying anything new and fun.

  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    RickOShay said:
     :



    I spend more time scrolling past certain forum posts than I do 1-clicking past idle store pages in the game. 

    Anyway, the event was fun and I got an easy T50 finish in CL9. I'd expect future events may be even less competitive for placement, so for the extra grinding I'd hope to get some decent vault scores throughout the month.
    Got a tier 2 duplicate, but I had no reasonable expectations for nabbing a tier 4 Support during the 1st Circuit run. 

    Many of us appreciate the work that went into this, and please listed to the many good suggestions if we can make some more enhancements. 
    There is definitely a disconnect going on here.  I would say most appreciate the work put in, but dislike the....way it is sold to us, for a lack of better term.  

    Adding ways to get supports are great.  And adding extra things to do to get them are fine as well.  The problem is that the amount of effort put in, in order to get *guaranteed* token pulls, seem to be off.  Especially because those guaranteed tokens have a high percentage chance of getting a duplicate with now reduced riso return.  

    I still cant understand how we can have heroic tokens with literally over 100 different outcomes every pull, plus the chance of triggering a bonus hero only on certain outcomes, but they couldnt just add all of the rest of the supports to the basic support token?

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