New Event - Support Circuit Updated (1/28/19)

TPF Alexis

Ed_Dragonrider said:

broll said:

Also why in the world are these new support stores always showing vs only showing when you have tokens?  Making them only show unless you had tokens (or there was some buy option) was genius and a great way to cut down on the ridiculous amount of cluttered screens in the recruit section.  I hope that's just a mistake/oversight.

 I get that you hate supports and everything associated with them, with every fiber of your being, but just no. 

Invisible stores do not entice or motivate. They do not temp. The 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude is not the best when you actually want people spending and chasing after things.

I for one hate being exluded from things. Even things im not yet eligible for. But maybe ask for a toggle or button to help you hide it, if this upsets you so much...

What purpose does it serve, tempting, enticing, or motivating us, if there is no way to act on that, no way to purchase those tokens? I can't regularly spend HP, CP, or even actual dollars to take a pull from any of the options in the Supports "Store". It just sits there, reminding me of how rare it is to actually get a token for them.

Smart80

TPF Alexis said:

Ed_Dragonrider said:

broll said:

Also why in the world are these new support stores always showing vs only showing when you have tokens?  Making them only show unless you had tokens (or there was some buy option) was genius and a great way to cut down on the ridiculous amount of cluttered screens in the recruit section.  I hope that's just a mistake/oversight.

 I get that you hate supports and everything associated with them, with every fiber of your being, but just no. 

Invisible stores do not entice or motivate. They do not temp. The 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude is not the best when you actually want people spending and chasing after things.

I for one hate being exluded from things. Even things im not yet eligible for. But maybe ask for a toggle or button to help you hide it, if this upsets you so much...

What purpose does it serve, tempting, enticing, or motivating us, if there is no way to act on that, no way to purchase those tokens? I can't regularly spend HP, CP, or even actual dollars to take a pull from any of the options in the Supports "Store". It just sits there, reminding me of how rare it is to actually get a token for them.

I dont mind being able to see which 16 are featured this month. Unless there is other way to see, please dont make it invisible...

bluewolf

If you ever want to see which Supports are available from a token in vault, you can click on it and an odds window will appear, showing all of them. 

PuceMoose

Just pulled my four support circuit tokens:

2* Storm

2* Wolverine

2* Thor

2* OBW

Blah... I hope they introduce at least one beginner's support token as a reward (maybe the last big pin's reward, instead of a token, you get a beginner support), so you're guaranteed at least one support in the event designed to improve the availability of supports.

pheregas

PuceMoose said:

Just pulled my four support circuit tokens:

2* Storm

2* Wolverine

2* Thor

2* OBW

Blah... I hope they introduce at least one beginner's support token as a reward (maybe the last big pin's reward, instead of a token, you get a beginner support), so you're guaranteed at least one support in the event designed to improve the availability of supports.

Don’t forget the wise words of the devs... We are supposed to lose.

TPF Alexis

Smart80 said:

TPF Alexis said:

Ed_Dragonrider said:

broll said:

Also why in the world are these new support stores always showing vs only showing when you have tokens?  Making them only show unless you had tokens (or there was some buy option) was genius and a great way to cut down on the ridiculous amount of cluttered screens in the recruit section.  I hope that's just a mistake/oversight.

 I get that you hate supports and everything associated with them, with every fiber of your being, but just no. 

Invisible stores do not entice or motivate. They do not temp. The 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude is not the best when you actually want people spending and chasing after things.

I for one hate being exluded from things. Even things im not yet eligible for. But maybe ask for a toggle or button to help you hide it, if this upsets you so much...

What purpose does it serve, tempting, enticing, or motivating us, if there is no way to act on that, no way to purchase those tokens? I can't regularly spend HP, CP, or even actual dollars to take a pull from any of the options in the Supports "Store". It just sits there, reminding me of how rare it is to actually get a token for them.

I dont mind being able to see which 16 are featured this month. Unless there is other way to see, please dont make it invisible...

That's legit. But it doesn't actually speak to any of the reasons Ed mentioned for them to be there.

JHawkInc

CaptainFreaky said:

Honestly even earning via progression one master token (with the new reduced odds) once a month would be quite reasonable.

Maybe running this for four weeks and earning one advanced token per week (with sufficient effort) and then one master token every 4 weeks.  

This would make it more like DDQ and less like another grindy PVE.   I understand making supports rare since each one is complete unto itself but is earning the equivalent of one advanced token per week really too much into the economy? I say it's not too much if you want us to become more engaged with supports (well and also improving the support UI). 

I doubt they'd go as far as an Advanced every week and a Master every four, but the idea of stringing together individual Support Circuit events into a new progression system isn't a bad one. So if you do all four Support Circuits during one cycle of 16 Supports, you'd gain extra rewards.

But I think it would be more like hitting progression in one event would earn you one reward for the "Season" (so only four rewards total, requiring you to hit progression in each Circuit for that "Season"), and I think we'd most likely end up getting some Red ISO, maybe two Basic Support tokens, and one Advanced.

(not saying I don't want Master tokens, just trying to suggest something I think it'll be easier to convince the devs to actually do, shooting for some middle ground, you know?)

pheregas said:

Don’t forget the wise words of the devs... We are supposed to lose.

And like a typical forum user, being snarky while completely missing the point. Since the devs had a point there, but the players ignored it and whined anyway.

ammenell

thanks for the 7cp and iso. 

Nick441234

I played for progression and finished top 50. Took me about 25 minutes. I wont play anymore than that as its not worth the effort. 

Quebbster

Apparently started my end grind too late, so I ended up in the top 200. Still not too shabby, but I may take a different approach next week - I am not too happy with the results this time.

LavaManLee

From the original post made in "Updates to Earning Supports":

"We want to give players a way to earn Supports on a more consistent basis. With that goal in mind, we’re introducing the new weekly Support Circuit event. This event is designed for players who want to improve and continue to build their collection of Supports. "

IMHO, the Short Circuit event falls far short of their goal.  This is definitely NOT a way to earn supports on a more consistent basis.  It is NOT designed for players who want to improve and continue building their collection of Supports.

I think if they had just introduced the event without this talk about helping us earn supports, everyone would have felt better.   The expectation set for this event does not match the reality of what the event is.  Instead, they did the classic thing that Business 101 tells you never to do : They oversold and underdelivered.  

Ed_Dragonrider

TPF Alexis said:

Smart80 said:

TPF Alexis said:

Ed_Dragonrider said:

broll said:

Also why in the world are these new support stores always showing vs only showing when you have tokens?  Making them only show unless you had tokens (or there was some buy option) was genius and a great way to cut down on the ridiculous amount of cluttered screens in the recruit section.  I hope that's just a mistake/oversight.

 I get that you hate supports and everything associated with them, with every fiber of your being, but just no. 

Invisible stores do not entice or motivate. They do not temp. The 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude is not the best when you actually want people spending and chasing after things.

I for one hate being exluded from things. Even things im not yet eligible for. But maybe ask for a toggle or button to help you hide it, if this upsets you so much...

What purpose does it serve, tempting, enticing, or motivating us, if there is no way to act on that, no way to purchase those tokens? I can't regularly spend HP, CP, or even actual dollars to take a pull from any of the options in the Supports "Store". It just sits there, reminding me of how rare it is to actually get a token for them.

I dont mind being able to see which 16 are featured this month. Unless there is other way to see, please dont make it invisible...

That's legit. But it doesn't actually speak to any of the reasons Ed mentioned for them to be there.

What i was aiming at is that you can get support tokens from bundles and the vault...

You see something worth having from the current R16 store? The newest Victorious perhaps? Here is your chance to get it now, for 4 weeks!! Might not be in the next set of 16, get it now, you know you want to!
So head on over to the hfh store and get those support bundles for hp/cp. Not enough hp? Buy a stark.
Dont forget you can also get tokens from the vault! You can empty the entire vault, multiple times even. Just spend some hp. You can reset and get even more tokens for that sweet support that you want sooo much! All it takes is some hp... Ran out? BUY A STARK!!

Honestly, if someone really really wants a specific support, they would have to spend quite a bit. And now they can! And knowing that the certain support will not be available in every R16, and it can take months to even have a chance at it again, will fuel that spending drive......for those who are able to.
But if you cant even see that its there, then you wont move heaven and earth for more chances at it. You wont be "tempted" and you wont spend.
There is a reason why shops display things in their windows...

whitecat31

So after doing this event, I came to realize that the first place prize is basically bad for even SCL9. It is actually insulting.  If you are going to be first place in SCL9 there is a very good chance you have all or almost all of your basic supports with three stars.  So that master token for first place is a 66% of 7000 Red iso and 33% chance of something meh, and 5% chance of something decent depending on random number generation.    Every other placing is guaranteed meh.   The annoying thing is for most people's top 8 or Top 10, is separated by 10 points or less.  So basically, if you won 20 of these in a row, there is a good chance you won't get something good, but that will never happen because luck, will play a huge part in the placings.   So the difference of doing this support event casual and placing top 100 versus somehow finishing first is  a small amount of HP, a small amount of red iso and a token with basically a 5 percent chance to get something decent and three other tokens with a 1% chance to get something decent.   The difference between top 10 and casual top 100 is  minimal.   Placing first in this event is less rewarding as placing in lightning rounds.

broll

1882 said:

I think D3go missed a trick with the new support thing! I believe they should have made it like DDQ. But you earn a master support token not a LL on the big one. Seems a lot of work the way they have done it. Imo. 

They would never do this, for good reason.  Support leveling is drastically different than character leveling.  You get one 5* for a support and it's maxed, vs taking at least 13 5* covers to be able to max a 5* character (more if you're unlucky with covers).  I don't know how many supports there are (because I don't care) but I think it's below 30 and they seem to be adding about 2 per 6 week cycle.  If the gave out a master every time you could have every one at 4*s within a year or so, even with the additions (assuming RNG treats you right).  You'd also be drowning in RISO with the sell back on dups.  The impression I get is this is supposed to be the new carrot in place of adding a new higher tier and if that is the case these should be as difficult if not harder to champ than 5*s otherwise they'll need build a new carrot in a year or so.

Painmonger

I have to echo many other voices here, this event failed to deliver on it's stated purpose. The only way to actually earn any supports at all is to be in the top 3 players in every 1000 player bracket, anything else is just RNG. Add in the newly reduced odds of getting the higher ranks off of those tokens, there's a good chance those top 3 players still won't get anything they can use.

Personal experience, SCL9 not too bad, about 30 minutes & 2 heals used. The time slots were all terrible for me, so final clears weren't complete in time, but still ended T50 for the 2 vault tokens. A total of 7 pulls for 2 x 3*, 2 x 2*, 1500 iso & 500 riso. This does not provide me a clear way to develop supports or much motivation to even bother with this event in th future. I'm not sure the 10 extra CP each week is worth the effort.

In the end I'd say 24 hours to do another 39 clears on top of regular PvE & PvP is just too much for such terrible odds. Yes, you have the same vault for a few weeks, but the vault is also twice the size of any other events & tokens can't be hoarded to increase your chances.

It seems pretty safe to me if T5 gets a master, T50 advanced, & everyone else a beginner. Leave the vault tokens, but cut out some of the iso & character covers to bring it to a 200 vault. 

Cactus_Jack_87

I like supports. I want more of them. This was supposed to be a new and improved way to get them, but instead, we get a new competitive/speed based PVE that makes me burnt out for the day and not want to do my real PVE.

The changes to the token pull rates are not good. A 55% chance to pull a useless 3* support from a Master Token is insulting to the players that work hard for that first place spot, and is an especially bad deal for the poor people who spend 250CP on them in the HFH stores.

I do like that a new support vault exists, but only so I can buy daily deals in them. The fact that they run for a month and have 240 items (but only about 10% of those items are for "useful" support pulls) does not seem to solve the support shortage problem that we have at all.

If I were to suggest anything, I would say cut out the competitive PVE element, and make it more similar to SHIELD Training. Take out the Master Support reward for top placement (that 1/1,000 players get) and instead provide vault tokens for progression rewards based on SCL difficulty. Maybe even consider adding fun new challenges in certain nodes in exchange for additional rewards (beat this boss in under X amount of time, or use the FF against Boss Doom for an extra vault token).

Also, PLEASE change back the Master Support token pull rates, and make the support store contain support items only. I know that this might seemingly provide too many supports, but a 40 item store that contains a Master Token, a 3* support, a handful of advanced and beginner tokens and some RISO bundles would be much more attractive than a 240 item store full of Moonstone covers.

It is fun to collect them, but let's all be honest, it's not like supports are that useful overall. If anything, they may help generate a little AP or fortify a special tile every 5 turns or so in a PVE match, but I don't see the point in protecting them like they are an ultra rare and precious commodity. Not trying to be negative (as I said, I like supports), I'm just being realistic. Let's end the support embargo once and for all, and add in a new game mode to make earning them fun instead of grueling!

KGB

broll said:

1882 said:

I think D3go missed a trick with the new support thing! I believe they should have made it like DDQ. But you earn a master support token not a LL on the big one. Seems a lot of work the way they have done it. Imo. 

They would never do this, for good reason.  Support leveling is drastically different than character leveling.  You get one 5* for a support and it's maxed, vs taking at least 13 5* covers to be able to max a 5* character (more if you're unlucky with covers).  I don't know how many supports there are (because I don't care) but I think it's below 30 and they seem to be adding about 2 per 6 week cycle.  If the gave out a master every time you could have every one at 4*s within a year or so, even with the additions (assuming RNG treats you right).  You'd also be drowning in RISO with the sell back on dups.  The impression I get is this is supposed to be the new carrot in place of adding a new higher tier and if that is the case these should be as difficult if not harder to champ than 5*s otherwise they'll need build a new carrot in a year or so.

There are 48 supports. If they changed the event from CL based to have 3 levels (Beginner, Advanced, Master and set them level wise to the equivalent of CL6, CL8 and CL9) and gave out the appropriate token (beginner, advanced, master) in progression you could earn at most 52 a year. Even if they *just* released 4 more supports that would be 52. Given the odds of a duplicate most players would be lucky to end up with 26 of the 52 after 1 full year (never mind the RISO to level them). Many of those would only be L3 now that Master gives chances for that. It would take probably on the order of 2 years to acquire all 52 at the rate of earning 1 Master token a week. That's a *very* reasonable time frame given a new player could probably take a fresh roster to all champed 4* in the same frame.

Hence there is no reason not to give a guaranteed support token in progression.

KGB 

ThaRoadWarrior

i took a daily deal today, and got a basic support token. drew a 4* Blackbird, i think I had a 1* before. Not really sure it helps anyone I'm playing regularly, but cool i guess.

fmftint

I stand by my initial assessment of this, you're better off just buying the daily vault deal than actually playing it

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/860355/#Comment_860355

bluewolf

The rate of Support release is basically one for each new character.  I’m sure we will have 24-26 added by the end of 2019. Discounting the Stones, that’s 66-68. Which means, if frozen, 20 week rotations of the vault and Select 16. 

I’m sure there are metrics they use for increasing resources so that you have a hard time catching up. Riso was insanely hard to acquire for a long time; presumably they had some number of Supports either that people had to have or be in game before they increased riso rewards. Now I suppose they met some metric of Supports in game. Maybe they wanted to be able to run 3 distinct groups of 16 since we will have at least 48, I assume, by 3 months from now when we reach SC3 (assuming a Namor Support, that’s just 5 more characters/Supports).

Look, giving a few more tokens out won’t make anyone quit because they got all the Supports.  Probably because they won’t.  Most people are missing a lot of them.