Gilded Lotus

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  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2018
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    FindingHeart8 said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    You know, I still find the lotus pretty useful in certain decks.  Its great with Jodah, and is still good for older walkers who need a mana boost.

    Honestly, if it had a couple more shields (make it 3 or 4) it would be a definitely usable card.  Sure, not nearly as powerful, but still something I'll use from time to time.
    I tried it with Jodah and his abilities overrode it. 

    Which PW did you use?

    Maybe this is a bug?
    I originally tried it with Kiora with Marwyn, Lotus, another elf (our freebie, I believe), and Song of Freyalese.
    I found I still had all the bonuses after Jodah triggered every turn, which makes sense because he shouldn't be overriding stuff on the field (I assume dampening sphere would be devastating)
    It remains 0 every time for me. I have tried it in Karn, Saheeli, Kiora, Bolas and dirty Jace. Could there be another card overriding it? 

    The way I read the interaction, it's working as intended for me. Jodah should override Lotus. 

    Lotus buffs the mana gains, but at the top of every turn, Jodah zeros them out. 
    That is definitely odd, I'll give it another try.  Maybe it was a bug that they fixed without telling us?  Stranger things have happened.  And Karn with Jodah is hilarious, you can buff your gains after Jodah nixes them, but not once you hit the 3 times max.  
    Put it through another series of tests today. Still doesn’t buff mana gains with Jodah in play (see video). 

    https://youtu.be/5cqezkWXwAc

    This is the deck I used: 


    Why did I not think of using Day's Undoing with Jodah??!  AAAh soo good.  I like it :)

    I don't really understand the purpose of the rest of the deck, unless you custom made this just to test if that combo works or not.
      Man, that's the first thing i thought about when i have seen jodah ... thats such a broken combo.
       The rest of the deck is full of historic cards that will trigger jhoira and give "infinite" draws +3 mana to each card drawn, thus imitating the days undoing efect on the long term. Storm the vault will provide the mana despite of joda's reduction, karn's sundering gives aditional turns and defense ... And i assume goggles are mostly here because its really satisfying to play such a card for 6 mana (also because it will allow to chain bounce/draw but the deck would probably run without it).
        Lotus was obviously here for the test and weatherlight because its great to play a brand new mythic and it is so roleplay to play both weatherlight and joira in the same deck. 
       
       Looks like a very interesting deck actually, and i'm pretty sure it is quite devastating when it is set up. Thran portal, compass and lotus could be replaced by something more exciting i guess, as long as the cards are historic.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
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    FindingHeart8 said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    You know, I still find the lotus pretty useful in certain decks.  Its great with Jodah, and is still good for older walkers who need a mana boost.

    Honestly, if it had a couple more shields (make it 3 or 4) it would be a definitely usable card.  Sure, not nearly as powerful, but still something I'll use from time to time.
    I tried it with Jodah and his abilities overrode it. 

    Which PW did you use?

    Maybe this is a bug?
    I originally tried it with Kiora with Marwyn, Lotus, another elf (our freebie, I believe), and Song of Freyalese.
    I found I still had all the bonuses after Jodah triggered every turn, which makes sense because he shouldn't be overriding stuff on the field (I assume dampening sphere would be devastating)
    It remains 0 every time for me. I have tried it in Karn, Saheeli, Kiora, Bolas and dirty Jace. Could there be another card overriding it? 

    The way I read the interaction, it's working as intended for me. Jodah should override Lotus. 

    Lotus buffs the mana gains, but at the top of every turn, Jodah zeros them out. 
    That is definitely odd, I'll give it another try.  Maybe it was a bug that they fixed without telling us?  Stranger things have happened.  And Karn with Jodah is hilarious, you can buff your gains after Jodah nixes them, but not once you hit the 3 times max.  
    Put it through another series of tests today. Still doesn’t buff mana gains with Jodah in play (see video). 

    https://youtu.be/5cqezkWXwAc

    This is the deck I used: 


    Why did I not think of using Day's Undoing with Jodah??!  AAAh soo good.  I like it :)

    I don't really understand the purpose of the rest of the deck, unless you custom made this just to test if that combo works or not.
    You think that's good, try him with Behold the Beyond.  Instant hand drop every turn.

    And the other stuff in the deck seems to be so that they get either free dropped by the gateway when drawn (and don't have the cost drop) and to trigger Jhoira.  Just guessing (I'm missing about half of that or I'd try my own version lol)
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
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    Mburn7 said:
    FindingHeart8 said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    bken1234 said:
    Mburn7 said:
    You know, I still find the lotus pretty useful in certain decks.  Its great with Jodah, and is still good for older walkers who need a mana boost.

    Honestly, if it had a couple more shields (make it 3 or 4) it would be a definitely usable card.  Sure, not nearly as powerful, but still something I'll use from time to time.
    I tried it with Jodah and his abilities overrode it. 

    Which PW did you use?

    Maybe this is a bug?
    I originally tried it with Kiora with Marwyn, Lotus, another elf (our freebie, I believe), and Song of Freyalese.
    I found I still had all the bonuses after Jodah triggered every turn, which makes sense because he shouldn't be overriding stuff on the field (I assume dampening sphere would be devastating)
    It remains 0 every time for me. I have tried it in Karn, Saheeli, Kiora, Bolas and dirty Jace. Could there be another card overriding it? 

    The way I read the interaction, it's working as intended for me. Jodah should override Lotus. 

    Lotus buffs the mana gains, but at the top of every turn, Jodah zeros them out. 
    That is definitely odd, I'll give it another try.  Maybe it was a bug that they fixed without telling us?  Stranger things have happened.  And Karn with Jodah is hilarious, you can buff your gains after Jodah nixes them, but not once you hit the 3 times max.  
    Put it through another series of tests today. Still doesn’t buff mana gains with Jodah in play (see video). 

    https://youtu.be/5cqezkWXwAc

    This is the deck I used: 


    Why did I not think of using Day's Undoing with Jodah??!  AAAh soo good.  I like it :)

    I don't really understand the purpose of the rest of the deck, unless you custom made this just to test if that combo works or not.
    You think that's good, try him with Behold the Beyond.  Instant hand drop every turn.

    And the other stuff in the deck seems to be so that they get either free dropped by the gateway when drawn (and don't have the cost drop) and to trigger Jhoira.  Just guessing (I'm missing about half of that or I'd try my own version lol)
    Hopefully, behold the beyond isn't standard ! ^^"
  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
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    OK.  Well, I played with the new Gilded Lotus, and, barring any broken combos involving Mythic rares which I don't own, it's not that good.

    I stopped playing Puzzle Quest around this time last year.  Just before I went to Grand Prix Las Vegas 2017, I left my coalition, deliberately left my iPad at home, and didn't play the game again until recently.

    Then, when I saw Gilded Lotus could be had for $20, I decided, what the heck.  It seemed like a perfectly reasonable card at an attractive price point.  The first time I could justify actually paying the ludicrous cash prices they charge for this game since Baral, which was the only other time I ever spent money on this game.

    When I was active in the game, I regretted not spending $10 for Shrine of the Forsaken Gods when it was available, so I figured Gilded Lotus was probably worth it in the long run. 

    I strongly disagree with the idea that there should not be an auto-include mana accelerator  available to any deck.  It seems to me that Shrine of the Forsaken Gods and later, Corrupted Grafstone were auto-includes and perfectly reasonable.  They take up a card slot, die to Demolish, and don't automatically win you the game.

    Next week, I'll be heading to Grand Prix Las Vegas 2018, and I'm seriously considering leaving the iPad at home again, and possibly not playing this game for another extended period of time.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,435 Chairperson of the Boards
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    EDHdad said:
    OK.  Well, I played with the new Gilded Lotus, and, barring any broken combos involving Mythic rares which I don't own, it's not that good.

    I stopped playing Puzzle Quest around this time last year.  Just before I went to Grand Prix Las Vegas 2017, I left my coalition, deliberately left my iPad at home, and didn't play the game again until recently.

    Then, when I saw Gilded Lotus could be had for $20, I decided, what the heck.  It seemed like a perfectly reasonable card at an attractive price point.  The first time I could justify actually paying the ludicrous cash prices they charge for this game since Baral, which was the only other time I ever spent money on this game.

    When I was active in the game, I regretted not spending $10 for Shrine of the Forsaken Gods when it was available, so I figured Gilded Lotus was probably worth it in the long run. 

    I strongly disagree with the idea that there should not be an auto-include mana accelerator  available to any deck.  It seems to me that Shrine of the Forsaken Gods and later, Corrupted Grafstone were auto-includes and perfectly reasonable.  They take up a card slot, die to Demolish, and don't automatically win you the game.

    Next week, I'll be heading to Grand Prix Las Vegas 2018, and I'm seriously considering leaving the iPad at home again, and possibly not playing this game for another extended period of time.


    A pity that you lay so much weight on one card to assess the quality of a game; which is rather an unfair assessment because lotus is no where game breaking nor does it single handedly improve the quality of life in the game either as you pointed out.

    -Hibernium is extinct. The problems and issues that caused you to leave in the first place were infinitely worse than any of the ones we are facing today. A few weeks worth of continual playing would reveal this rather quickly to you that Oktagon has made incredible strides to improve the game and they listen to the player base. Something Hibernium failed to do repeatedly. So, no... 

    -The $20 offer was for Karn… that happened to have lotus. If $20 for lotus alone was worth it to you... there were far more efficient cards that are available when DOM 1st released.  

    Seems to me that you simply either  need to play more or that  you need to expand your pool of standard cards which by my guess is  severely limited to Origins. 

    Can't judge a game fairly if you're not involved imho. 

    That said, I really recommend jumping in with both feet. I doubt you'll be disappointed. BUT...  If you  still are, then I doubt the game was ever the issue and simply just that it's just not your flavor of ice cream and I can respect that. 

  • jtwood
    jtwood Posts: 1,285 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
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    Gunmix25 said:

    -The $20 offer was for Karn… that happened to have lotus. If $20 for lotus alone was worth it to you... there were far more efficient cards that are available when DOM 1st released. 


    tl;dr version - All PWs can definitely be had for crystals, but you may never open a card of any rarity. So it makes sense to evaluate cash purchases in the light of guaranteed cards before the PWs.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,435 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
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    jtwood said:
    Gunmix25 said:

    -The $20 offer was for Karn… that happened to have lotus. If $20 for lotus alone was worth it to you... there were far more efficient cards that are available when DOM 1st released. 


    tl;dr version - All PWs can definitely be had for crystals, but you may never open a card of any rarity. So it makes sense to evaluate cash purchases in the light of guaranteed cards before the PWs.
    No, you may never open one. But you can always craft it. 

    But I do see the point. But imho lotus for $20 is like $20 for sunset pyramid. I paid for early access to Karn. Lotus was a bonus but not even close to a critical card that it's being made out to be. 
  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
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    jtwood said:
    Gunmix25 said:

    -The $20 offer was for Karn… that happened to have lotus. If $20 for lotus alone was worth it to you... there were far more efficient cards that are available when DOM 1st released. 


    tl;dr version - All PWs can definitely be had for crystals, but you may never open a card of any rarity. So it makes sense to evaluate cash purchases in the light of guaranteed cards before the PWs.
    Your argument also admitted that you did not know that the card would come with Karn regardless whether he was purchased with Crystals or with cash.

    Paying for the bundle to guarantee the cards doesn't apply when the cards are guaranteed as long as you get said planeswalker.
  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
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    In the spirit of compromise, I'm willing to refer to it as the Gilded Lotus bundle.

    That being said, I can confidently state that I would not have purchased the Gilded Lotus bundle if it did not include Gilded Lotus.

    I agree that I would have to think long and hard to purchase the Sunset Pyramid bundle for $20.  A $20 Tamiyo's Journal bundle might have been tempting back in the day, though. 

    The only thing worse than paying $20 for a Sunset Pyramid bundle would be paying $20 for a Sunset Pyramid bundle and then getting Nerfed for allegedly being OP. 
  • StoicFnord
    StoicFnord Posts: 9 Just Dropped In
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    Quantius said:
    After all this gilded lotus talk, I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet from tomorrows maintenance:

    We will be adjusting the card, Gilded Lotus:
    • Cost changed from 9 to 6.
    • Shield increased from 2 to 3.

    That's decent!
    Reduced cost and increased shields means that this would work well in a deck where cascades are frequent. The plus to loyalty is also not To be sniffed at. Sure if. You want raw mana you can go manalith, but it's a decent tradeoff 
  • DumasAG
    DumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
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    gogol666 said:
    Why are we still talking about this?
    People who bought the bundle for 20$ got 80 crystals compensation and a reasonable gilded lotus.
    I would say d3/oktagon admitted their fault and gave us a good compromise
    100% agree. I'm sad about the nerf overall, of course, because I like my cards to be broken. And in hindsight, original lotus WAS going to be a problem. Way too much mana bonus. They fixed it, they compensated us, I reckon it's time to get on with life.

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