Gilded Lotus

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  • NinjaE
    NinjaE Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
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    My new measuring stick for nerfing is cycling, namely "Is it more broken than cycling, which they never addressed?" If not, let it go.

    Maybe Lotus has some interaction we haven't found yet, and that's whey they are hitting it?

  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
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    It seems to me, Lotus is only really powerful with gem changers to cause cascades.   But that also tends to kill the Lotus.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
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    AzraelCB said:
    This does feel like a bait and switch... and not just because of Guilded Lotus. 4 out of the 5 cards that came with Karn got worse. Bloodtallow candle also had its cost increased from 6 to 9. Jousting Lance went from 7 to 10. Navigation Compass went from 5 to 9. Now... Howling Golem went from 14 to 11... so... we got that going for us...

    Again, we don't know if these are permanent or not. Considering that all of these came out early, I am hoping that they were the final products... but I would have thought that they gallery would have been addressed by this point.

    I don't know what to think right now... but I know I am not happy.
    you'd think it would just be easier to cut and paste the *already released* Dominaria cards that came with Karn, then it would be to recreate new versions of the cards that cause a general panic among some of mtgpq's more devoted viewers.

    It raises several questions for me on their internal management:

    1) How beta are these sneak peak cards?  With Ixalan we were surprised with (as incomplete as the cards were) how they were actually Ocatgon's current final forms of the cards.  Fixes were made again before release, and again a couple times after, but it was a shocking experience for many of us.

    2) could it be possible that there are two teams working on this?  If so, how much do they communicate?  From what I've seen from Octagon's website I got the impression their company was pretty small, so I'm not sure how realistic this is.

    3) How much do they actually communicate with Brigby?  In my past positions where one of my duties was to be the voice of a company to those effected, it was also my job to be a final checking point before anything was released, making edits and suggestions if I thought something was incorrect or would be viewed unfavorable so it could be changed before release.  Brigby informed us of the original Karn release and the cards that came along with it, hopefully he's seen and realized the error being made here.  How much of a role does he get to play in fixing this?

    4)  What is Octagon's priorities?  Is the issue here lack of resources, poor work performance, or being overwhelmed with too many projects?

  • stikxs
    stikxs Posts: 518 Critical Contributor
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    Gilesclone said:
    It seems to me, Lotus is only really powerful with gem changers to cause cascades.   But that also tends to kill the Lotus.
    And in my experience Lotus picks a gem pre-set for a match like 70% of the time, so it basically only has 1 shield to me... I don't have a problem with tweaks, but this is way too much taken out of the card.
  • mrixl2520
    mrixl2520 Posts: 240 Tile Toppler
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    For D3GO's sake, I hope this is an error. Gilded Lotus is strong, but it's supposed to be. I do not think it needed the nerf, especially since a lot of people purchased the set largely for this card (Though, early access to Karn is pretty sweet)

    I know there have been cards that have been nerfed after their release such as Baral. Baral however straight up broke the game, and he's still pretty darn powerful after the nerf. Lotus makes the game better, and after the nerf it is simply a lackluster card.

    I have very little spending money these days, yet the Karn/Lotus bundle seemed like a very good deal to me. If this nerf goes through, don't expect me or many other people to ever give you money ever again.


  • ReadingRambo
    ReadingRambo Posts: 19 Just Dropped In
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    I bought karn for the PW, but also the cards. This is the first time I spent money on this game, and it will be the last. I feel like I should have known better. The worst part is - I didn't even get him! I'm 2 days into waiting to hear back from support. They took my money, gave me nothing, and then changed 4 of the 5 cards last minute. C'mon, what the hell?! If it was one nerf to an overpowered card, I might believe it, but to raise the cost on 4 of them? That makes it seem a lot more like false advertising, knowing they were luring people into a purchase for cards too good to be true. Boooooooooo. 
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Brigby can you confirm whether or not the Dominaria cards released with Karn are going to be altered or not?  As visible from many of the comments above, changing the cards to the new versions listed in the Dominaria sneak peek may have negative repercussions on mtgpq future revenue.
  • GrizzoMtGPQ
    GrizzoMtGPQ Posts: 776 Critical Contributor
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    @Brigby agree with @FindingHeart8. We'd really, really like an answer.
  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
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    I will request a refund too. the  lotus made me buy karn even though I had enough crystal to get him in vault. This is a deceptive practice
  • Sorin81
    Sorin81 Posts: 545 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2018
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    If Gilded Lotus is being nerfed, and it seems like it is, I must say I am not pleased by this. 
    I purchased Karn for my alt account specifically for the Lotus. This is not a purchase I would have made otherwise. 
    Gilded Lotus is a powerful card but imo it is far from being op. I fail to see where a nerf to this card is necessary. 

    @Brigby

    I do hope this is a mistake. If not, I think D3 and Oktagon should seriously reconsider this. 
  • jtwood
    jtwood Posts: 1,285 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
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    The Lotus was the reason I bought that package. Hell, I even have evidence to prove that statement:


    And now...
  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
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    Lotus did not generate any negative attention compared to other paid contents like baral or cards like Omniscience. Omniscience despite it masterpiece rarity has been extremely unpopular. Lotus is no were near those OP cards. So why nerf if out of the blue?
    I don't understand the dichotomy, dominara itself has dozens of cards that are candidate for adjustment, lotus. I've faced many lotuses and I haven't heard a single player on forums or slack complain about lotus being OP.
    "As IS" or not, I'm requesting a refund if the nerf goes live. Lotus made me spend real currency for the first time in this game. This is certainly the last time I'll ever spend.

  • Rhasget
    Rhasget Posts: 412 Mover and Shaker
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    Altough I can live with the changes although I based my purchase on the added value of those cards, I'm considering claiming for refund just to mark that this practice is not ok.
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
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    This is one of the great occasions when "nothing" is by far the worst answer. Great job ignoring everyone.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
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    Theros said:
    Lotus did not generate any negative attention compared to other paid contents like baral or cards like Omniscience. Omniscience despite it masterpiece rarity has been extremely unpopular. Lotus is no were near those OP cards. So why nerf if out of the blue?

    Actually, there was a lot of talk about Lotus needing a nerf right when it came out.  There was also a lot of talk refuting that, but there were still several posts saying its too powerful.

    I don't entirely disagree with nerfing it either, I just think they went to far.  
  • Coilbox
    Coilbox Posts: 202 Tile Toppler
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    For all the people wondering if the caption of the lotus is a simple mistake... No, the nerf is more than intended as they detailed in the 2.7 release notes updated.

    Copying what they added:

    Balance Changes

    • Llanowar Elves
      • Mana Cost: 10 -> 9
      • Power/Toughness: 2/2 -> 3/3
    • Howling Golem
      • Mana Cost: 14 -> 11
    • Jousting Lance
      • Mana Cost: 7 -> 10
    • Navigator's Compass
      • Mana Cost: 5 -> 9
    • Bloodtallow Candle
      • Mana Cost: 6 -> 9
    • Gilded Lotus
      • Mana Cost: 7 -> 9
      • Mana Bonus Increase: 2 -> 1
  • __Adam
    __Adam Posts: 111 Tile Toppler
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    When they bait and switched baral I thought 'never again' but this is a new dev team so i bit on the karn package. 

    There won't be a 3rd time.
  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
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    Mburn7 said:
    MADAFAKA said:
    Lotus did not generate any negative attention compared to other paid contents like baral or cards like Omniscience. Omniscience despite it masterpiece rarity has been extremely unpopular. Lotus is no were near those OP cards. So why nerf if out of the blue?

    Actually, there was a lot of talk about Lotus needing a nerf right when it came out.  There was also a lot of talk refuting that, but there were still several posts saying its too powerful.

    I don't entirely disagree with nerfing it either, I just think they went to far.  
    There are a lot of talk about things being OP when new which is normal because we like to jump to conclusions. Lotus did cause as much grievance as card we as a community complained about. IMO, rrix, ixalan, hod and dominara have more card deserving nerf right now than lotus.
    By the end of day, each person is entitle to her/his own opinion

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