Gilded Lotus

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  • Tilwin90
    Tilwin90 Posts: 662 Critical Contributor
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    Yeah but how many paper cards have you seen banned a month after they come out? It takes a while to convince oneself of these necessary needs and that can be done only by... I dunno... Playing. 
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Tilwin90 said:
    Yeah but how many paper cards have you seen banned a month after they come out? It takes a while to convince oneself of these necessary needs and that can be done only by... I dunno... Playing. 
    It has happened before (*cough* *cough* skullclamp), but only for much much much more meta-warping cards.
    Baral also got nerfed pretty quickly after his release (maybe it was 2 months?  Still pretty fast) as did Runaway Carriage, Season's Past, and Harness the Storm (although those weren't paid for exclusives).

    All of those were incredibly powerful and infinite loop-generating cards, though (and Carriage), so they definitely deserved it.  Not sure if Lotus was quite that good
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Mburn7 said:
    Baral also got nerfed pretty quickly after his release (maybe it was 2 months?  Still pretty fast) as did Runaway Carriage, Season's Past, and Harness the Storm (although those weren't paid for exclusives).

    All of those were incredibly powerful and infinite loop-generating cards, though (and Carriage), so they definitely deserved it.  Not sure if Lotus was quite that good
    Yes you are sure =).  And I agree.

  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Tilwin90 said:
    Yeah but how many paper cards have you seen banned a month after they come out? It takes a while to convince oneself of these necessary needs and that can be done only by... I dunno... Playing. 
    the difference is you can still have fun playing those banned cards in casual formats with friends.

    they nerf a card on mtgpq...that's all you've got.
  • stikxs
    stikxs Posts: 518 Critical Contributor
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    Coilbox said:
    For all the people wondering if the caption of the lotus is a simple mistake... No, the nerf is more than intended as they detailed in the 2.7 release notes updated.

    Copying what they added:

    Balance Changes

    • Llanowar Elves
      • Mana Cost: 10 -> 9
      • Power/Toughness: 2/2 -> 3/3
    • Howling Golem
      • Mana Cost: 14 -> 11
    • Jousting Lance
      • Mana Cost: 7 -> 10
    • Navigator's Compass
      • Mana Cost: 5 -> 9
    • Bloodtallow Candle
      • Mana Cost: 6 -> 9
    • Gilded Lotus
      • Mana Cost: 7 -> 9
      • Mana Bonus Increase: 2 -> 1
    Lol did anyone ever use that compass, and now almost doubling the cost?  And how is Lotus 2 -> 1 an "increase"?
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
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    The mana bonus increase is decreased.
  • boopers
    boopers Posts: 175 Tile Toppler
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    Gilesclone said:
    The mana bonus increase is decreased.
    Double negative? Lol. 
  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2018
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    If the devs are going to reinstate Gilded Lotus to its original form, I would like to put in a small request for them to remove the loyalty match bonus.

    A lot of the discussion here treats the card as if it boosts mana bonuses only. If it really behaved as so, then their arguments would be more valid.

    Some also attempt to equate a match to a turn, which are not really equivalent. But I don't really think people are interested to discuss that now.

    I have to qualify that I do not yet own the card as I didn't purchase the bundle but I can't see its effect being as minor as people claim it to be.

    *edit*
    I also have to say that I agree that the double nerf (cost increase and effect reduction) is excessive. It was really strong before but the combined nerf makes it really really situational to have in the deck.
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,080 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
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    If they had to change lotus this is how they should change it:-

    Just increase the cost to 9 without changing the Mana boosts.

    Or 

    Gives +1 to all colors, but castable in a single swap by most PWs, so it should cost 6 or 5.

    Oh and in either case, increase the shield count to 3.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,435 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
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    khurram said:
    If they had to change lotus this is how they should change it:-

    Just increase the cost to 9 without changing the Mana boosts.


    This, I can live with easily.  
  • Chocostove
    Chocostove Posts: 19 Just Dropped In
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     This is a bad nerf. Period. There have been so many broken game ruining cards that have gone untouched, some almost of the lifespan of the game and they choose to nerf all of the signature cards that fueled our motivation to purchase Karn in the first place(except Bloodtallow candle that card sucked as is,what gives?). Honestly this almost feels more like for once in the life of this game we got an honest to goodness good deal, and then after the fact the devs realized their mistake and nerfed everything down to the absolute mediocre value of all the other content. Every other PW is $39.99, I should have known that $5 over the price of the paper game was too good to be true
  • DBJones
    DBJones Posts: 803 Critical Contributor
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    I would also be okay with khurram's increase cost but leave the bonus at two proposal (preferably with 3 shields). I'd reluctantly accept 5 cost +1 bonuses with 3 shields.

    The other cards that came with Karn absolutely shouldn't be nerfed, Jousting Lance is the only one I'm likely to use ever as is. Well, I might use the golem with Ob Nixilus on the rare occasions I play him with creatures.
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 971 Critical Contributor
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    It's not overpowered as is. Think of oath of the gate watch, it didn't break the game either and though it cost more it added draw to the mix.

    The nerf is unwarranted
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Most people are still judging the nerf by the existing sets NOT dominaria.

    I agree that I think it's too much, but given how many cards look at "Mana Bonus", especially "Green Mana Bonus" it's VERY possible they are avoiding something broken.

    The communication of the nerf was a problem because people found it themselves instead of being prepped for it and given the reason.

    Given that it seems made for green decks in Dominaria it needs more shields, but the other changes might also be important...
  • mrixl2520
    mrixl2520 Posts: 240 Tile Toppler
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    Its been a week or so since the nerf and I've had some time to play with the Dominaria cards. In general I think the set is extremely fun and well balanced. I like the improvements to the UI, and I can even overlook the handfull of new bugs. I should be having fun but the Gilded Lotus is a thorn in my side. 

    I made the purchase for 2 reasons: 1) It seemed a good value for the price. 2) I have largely played the game for free for years, and I wanted to actually contribute to help sustain the game. Instead, I got less then I expected and a bad taste in my mouth. It feels like my money made D3GO realize it was selling something a little too good, and that I should be punished for their inability to evaluate their product.

    I have been on this forum for quite a while. I enjoying reading about this game about what the community is up to. However, with the Lotus fiasco, I have been checking the forums a lot more often hoping for more discussion on the matter. The silence is deafening. I am so tired of barest of responses from D3GO on not just this issue but all of the issues. We players have praised, scolded, and tried to impartially critique all aspects of the game to help you succeed. We don't want you to go broke, we are willing to give you money for reasonable products. When you ignore us, and change things suddenly without much consideration of us, you had better expect us to be pissed off. We don't understand why you haven't learned the lesson yet.

    There are so many glaring problems with this game, but I think the #1 problem that needs to be fixed is the absolute lack of interaction from D3GO.
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
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    hopefully my Karn for Crystals? thread didn't help incite this anger, if so I apologize :( but I definitely agree with you on this
  • mrixl2520
    mrixl2520 Posts: 240 Tile Toppler
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    FindingHeart8 said:
    hopefully my Karn for Crystals? thread didn't help incite this anger, if so I apologize :( but I definitely agree with you on this
    Certainly not! This is all based on the nerf and my devalued purchase. 
  • FindingHeart8
    FindingHeart8 Posts: 2,730 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2018
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    mrixl2520 said:
    FindingHeart8 said:
    hopefully my Karn for Crystals? thread didn't help incite this anger, if so I apologize :( but I definitely agree with you on this
    Certainly not! This is all based on the nerf and my devalued purchase. 
    That's good, I was just venting in that thread about a lot of the things you're posting on here so I wanted to check.  But yeah 80 crystals doesn't cover the issue.  They should've just increased the mana cost to cast Guilded Lotus but kept the ability the same.  Heck even at something like 17 cmc (which I believe is about the cost for Omniscience) Guilded Lotus would be amazing.
  • DragonSorcerer
    DragonSorcerer Posts: 182 Tile Toppler
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    What's more annoying is that I've pulled 3 more since release.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,435 Chairperson of the Boards
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    mrixl2520 said:

    There are so many glaring problems with this game, but I think the #1 problem that needs to be fixed is the absolute lack of interaction from D3GO.
    I beg to differ here. If you have been around as long as you have, you would know that the interaction we are receiving now is infinitely better than say a year ago. What is even more telling is that, despite your disappointment regarding Lotus, as a whole they are listening to us and changes have been made. They are working to communicate and compared to the Hibernium/D3GO relationship... I would much prefer this one between Oktagon and D3GO.

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