Gilded Lotus
Comments
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Gunmix25 said::
Know those itty bitty supports with one shield? Karn's 3rd buffs them up... making what should be an easy removal swap for the AI... into a bigger annoyance in your favor. That and if they pop he brings them back into your hand with some mana to boot. Karn is a top tier PW. Just gotta think outside the box with him. Biggest mistake I find that some players do with him is try to make "E.B.T.K.S." builds [Everything But The Kitchen Sink] … the synergy isn't there despite the cards being the biggest baddest hardcore cards in every color. A clunky deck is just that, a clunky deck, no matter how awesome those cards are that they put in it. I beat them in TG every single time.Anyways, Karn is extremely good in the hands of an expert player... one I think you'd have no problems with when you get this Beast of Metaliciousness. lol
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Doomstat said:Gunmix25 said::
Know those itty bitty supports with one shield? Karn's 3rd buffs them up... making what should be an easy removal swap for the AI... into a bigger annoyance in your favor. That and if they pop he brings them back into your hand with some mana to boot. Karn is a top tier PW. Just gotta think outside the box with him. Biggest mistake I find that some players do with him is try to make "E.B.T.K.S." builds [Everything But The Kitchen Sink] … the synergy isn't there despite the cards being the biggest baddest hardcore cards in every color. A clunky deck is just that, a clunky deck, no matter how awesome those cards are that they put in it. I beat them in TG every single time.Anyways, Karn is extremely good in the hands of an expert player... one I think you'd have no problems with when you get this Beast of Metaliciousness. lol
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Mburn7 said:You know, I still find the lotus pretty useful in certain decks. Its great with Jodah, and is still good for older walkers who need a mana boost.
Honestly, if it had a couple more shields (make it 3 or 4) it would be a definitely usable card. Sure, not nearly as powerful, but still something I'll use from time to time.
Which PW did you use?
Maybe this is a bug?0 -
bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:You know, I still find the lotus pretty useful in certain decks. Its great with Jodah, and is still good for older walkers who need a mana boost.
Honestly, if it had a couple more shields (make it 3 or 4) it would be a definitely usable card. Sure, not nearly as powerful, but still something I'll use from time to time.
Which PW did you use?
Maybe this is a bug?
I found I still had all the bonuses after Jodah triggered every turn, which makes sense because he shouldn't be overriding stuff on the field (I assume dampening sphere would be devastating)0 -
This content has been removed.
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Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:You know, I still find the lotus pretty useful in certain decks. Its great with Jodah, and is still good for older walkers who need a mana boost.
Honestly, if it had a couple more shields (make it 3 or 4) it would be a definitely usable card. Sure, not nearly as powerful, but still something I'll use from time to time.
Which PW did you use?
Maybe this is a bug?
I found I still had all the bonuses after Jodah triggered every turn, which makes sense because he shouldn't be overriding stuff on the field (I assume dampening sphere would be devastating)
The way I read the interaction, it's working as intended for me. Jodah should override Lotus.
Lotus buffs the mana gains, but at the top of every turn, Jodah zeros them out.0 -
bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:You know, I still find the lotus pretty useful in certain decks. Its great with Jodah, and is still good for older walkers who need a mana boost.
Honestly, if it had a couple more shields (make it 3 or 4) it would be a definitely usable card. Sure, not nearly as powerful, but still something I'll use from time to time.
Which PW did you use?
Maybe this is a bug?
I found I still had all the bonuses after Jodah triggered every turn, which makes sense because he shouldn't be overriding stuff on the field (I assume dampening sphere would be devastating)
The way I read the interaction, it's working as intended for me. Jodah should override Lotus.
Lotus buffs the mana gains, but at the top of every turn, Jodah zeros them out.0 -
Doomstat said:Gunmix25 said::
Know those itty bitty supports with one shield? Karn's 3rd buffs them up... making what should be an easy removal swap for the AI... into a bigger annoyance in your favor. That and if they pop he brings them back into your hand with some mana to boot. Karn is a top tier PW. Just gotta think outside the box with him. Biggest mistake I find that some players do with him is try to make "E.B.T.K.S." builds [Everything But The Kitchen Sink] … the synergy isn't there despite the cards being the biggest baddest hardcore cards in every color. A clunky deck is just that, a clunky deck, no matter how awesome those cards are that they put in it. I beat them in TG every single time.Anyways, Karn is extremely good in the hands of an expert player... one I think you'd have no problems with when you get this Beast of Metaliciousness. lol
Blightcaster is nasty with Karn, especially if playing the full rainbow builds in legacy … clues & treasures alongside Nyx and flip supports from IXN and RIX make for a nasty combo. In standard, the treasures and flip/nyx work well. Karn's construct keep churning out heavily charged supports to your hand at the end of the turn. I cannot recall, but I am also pretty sure the Saga chapters trigger Blightcaster too, if I remember correctly.
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Dobby said:Gunmix25 said:Dobby said:babar3355 said:The community largely agrees that the Gilded Lotus nerf has made the card virtually unplayable. I have forgotten to take it out of a few decks and typically exile it whenever I draw it.
And admittedly it was probably too powerful at +2 for 7 Mana. This effectively made Saheeli's Mana gains +21 after a single red or blue match. That is far too explosive, most people would agree.
But what about all the little guys who suddenly became playable with GL? (L1, J1, C1, C2, G1, Sarkhan T1, etc). They went from around +5 to +15. Making them more competitive, if not strong.. now they go back to unplayable.
But with a slight tweak to GL, they could level set these walkers without creating game breaking advantages. Leave Gilded Lotus exactly in it's prenerf form, with a caveat that it could not raise Mana bonuses above +2.
So for Saheeli's, her U/R wouldn't change but her G/W/B would got up +1... Not great. Total +14.
But for L1, her B would be unchanged at +3, R/U would go up +1, and G/W would go up +2. For a new gain of +11. Pretty solid.
It would also help alleviate the need to rework all of these PWs or just leave them to collect dust.
Thoughts?
That said, I wholeheartedly agree with @babar3355 's point that serious thought should be put into designing cards which are more powerful for mono-colored planeswalkers than they are for 2 or 3 colored ones. That's one thing I always like about the design of Corrupted Grafstone.. and something I find utterly baffling about the design of the new cycle of lands, like Hinterland Harbor. "Wait, this card won't be quite as powerful for Kiora as for Garruk, will it? Let's fix that problem!", say the designers. Why? For Christ's sake isn't Kiora powerful enough?
Honestly, card power levels need to be levelled out a bit. "Let's make a new Nissa's Pilgrimage!" say the designers. "Ok, how much should it cost?" say some other designers. "Well, the game needs to be slowed down a bit, so... 13 mana!". Come on, guys, it's been ages since you inherited this unholy mess of a game from Hibernum, you can stop making the same mistakes that they did now. There are a lot of numbers between 3 and 13.
Anyways, what facet are you focusing on that Oktagon is basically Hibernium? Because I don't see it. The levels of power creep now is nothing like AHK or HOR. That and about the only one Hibernium addressed was Baral. Oktagon has addressed issues that occurred and some were to the detriment of players here. I.e. lotus. Brigby has been trying to keep us in touch with the going ons and letting us know that the Devs are aware of the issues being fixed, some related to power creep.
The synergy in DOM is very well done and because of this the cards push us to create unusual builds. A move towards better banking imho, right Dobby? Anyways, I see PW with unique abilities but teferi's ability requires a bit of specific building to to utilize his 3rd effectively, but it's not a game ender. Jaya isn't available yet and we all truly can only guess how her third will play out. Karn is great and the Devs wisely found a way to restrict his color choices in nodes for competition. What the Devs managed to do that few have seen yo point out is that these new PW are not parasitic. An important trait much needed because we've many threads about how the devs made parasitic PW and how they're restricted for the long term.
Increasing the overall total gains of planeswalkers set by set will inevitable lead to older planeswalkers being mothballed. Which is bad. i hope they don't do that
You're right that there doesn't seem to be much of a level of power creep in the cards at the moment. Which is good! I hope they carry on with that!
I agree about the older PW. If anything, Lill3 and Jaya are good examples of what the mana increase could be for such PW. An adjustment on that scale should provide a more solid gain setting against the multi-colored PW of today. If any PW that could get mothballed are those with parasitic abilities. Teferi is infinitely better than Dovin because of this issue. If Dovin's abilities were built more for the long term, he would be just as viable as Teferi.0 -
Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:You know, I still find the lotus pretty useful in certain decks. Its great with Jodah, and is still good for older walkers who need a mana boost.
Honestly, if it had a couple more shields (make it 3 or 4) it would be a definitely usable card. Sure, not nearly as powerful, but still something I'll use from time to time.
Which PW did you use?
Maybe this is a bug?
I found I still had all the bonuses after Jodah triggered every turn, which makes sense because he shouldn't be overriding stuff on the field (I assume dampening sphere would be devastating)
The way I read the interaction, it's working as intended for me. Jodah should override Lotus.
Lotus buffs the mana gains, but at the top of every turn, Jodah zeros them out.After further testing I have found the following:Gilded Lotus and Song of Freyalise do work with JodahMarwyn and Navigator's Compass do work with Jodah.Dampening Sphere and the First Eruption I did not test (I don't have First Eruption and Dampening Sphere would be a Jodah hate card if it works).As far as I can tell these are the only cards that change your mana bonuses (except for the white dragon masterpiece, but that one does the same thing as Jodah)0 -
After all this gilded lotus talk, I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet from tomorrows maintenance:We will be adjusting the card, Gilded Lotus:
- Cost changed from 9 to 6.
- Shield increased from 2 to 3.
That's decent!3 -
I really appreciate the discussion that everyone has put up here in this thread. A lot of constructive ideas and useful input. I’m really pleased to see that D3 and the devs actually paid attention to all this and have made a fix on the card.
I think the fix they have made is just and will make the card playable and again a very powerful addition to the DOM set. Not broken, but powerful.
So thank you all for contributing and thank you @Brigby and D3 for listening.3 -
Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:You know, I still find the lotus pretty useful in certain decks. Its great with Jodah, and is still good for older walkers who need a mana boost.
Honestly, if it had a couple more shields (make it 3 or 4) it would be a definitely usable card. Sure, not nearly as powerful, but still something I'll use from time to time.
Which PW did you use?
Maybe this is a bug?
I found I still had all the bonuses after Jodah triggered every turn, which makes sense because he shouldn't be overriding stuff on the field (I assume dampening sphere would be devastating)
The way I read the interaction, it's working as intended for me. Jodah should override Lotus.
Lotus buffs the mana gains, but at the top of every turn, Jodah zeros them out.
https://youtu.be/5cqezkWXwAc
This is the deck I used:
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bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:You know, I still find the lotus pretty useful in certain decks. Its great with Jodah, and is still good for older walkers who need a mana boost.
Honestly, if it had a couple more shields (make it 3 or 4) it would be a definitely usable card. Sure, not nearly as powerful, but still something I'll use from time to time.
Which PW did you use?
Maybe this is a bug?
I found I still had all the bonuses after Jodah triggered every turn, which makes sense because he shouldn't be overriding stuff on the field (I assume dampening sphere would be devastating)
The way I read the interaction, it's working as intended for me. Jodah should override Lotus.
Lotus buffs the mana gains, but at the top of every turn, Jodah zeros them out.
Must have been a release-day bug they fixed. Oh well. Both are still solid cards.0 -
Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:You know, I still find the lotus pretty useful in certain decks. Its great with Jodah, and is still good for older walkers who need a mana boost.
Honestly, if it had a couple more shields (make it 3 or 4) it would be a definitely usable card. Sure, not nearly as powerful, but still something I'll use from time to time.
Which PW did you use?
Maybe this is a bug?
I found I still had all the bonuses after Jodah triggered every turn, which makes sense because he shouldn't be overriding stuff on the field (I assume dampening sphere would be devastating)
The way I read the interaction, it's working as intended for me. Jodah should override Lotus.
Lotus buffs the mana gains, but at the top of every turn, Jodah zeros them out.
Must have been a release-day bug they fixed. Oh well. Both are still solid cards.
I've tried it 3 times.0 -
bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:You know, I still find the lotus pretty useful in certain decks. Its great with Jodah, and is still good for older walkers who need a mana boost.
Honestly, if it had a couple more shields (make it 3 or 4) it would be a definitely usable card. Sure, not nearly as powerful, but still something I'll use from time to time.
Which PW did you use?
Maybe this is a bug?
I found I still had all the bonuses after Jodah triggered every turn, which makes sense because he shouldn't be overriding stuff on the field (I assume dampening sphere would be devastating)
The way I read the interaction, it's working as intended for me. Jodah should override Lotus.
Lotus buffs the mana gains, but at the top of every turn, Jodah zeros them out.
Must have been a release-day bug they fixed. Oh well. Both are still solid cards.
I've tried it 3 times.
Song of Freyalise and Lotus do not.
I guess its all in the timing0 -
bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:bken1234 said:Mburn7 said:You know, I still find the lotus pretty useful in certain decks. Its great with Jodah, and is still good for older walkers who need a mana boost.
Honestly, if it had a couple more shields (make it 3 or 4) it would be a definitely usable card. Sure, not nearly as powerful, but still something I'll use from time to time.
Which PW did you use?
Maybe this is a bug?
I found I still had all the bonuses after Jodah triggered every turn, which makes sense because he shouldn't be overriding stuff on the field (I assume dampening sphere would be devastating)
The way I read the interaction, it's working as intended for me. Jodah should override Lotus.
Lotus buffs the mana gains, but at the top of every turn, Jodah zeros them out.
https://youtu.be/5cqezkWXwAc
This is the deck I used:
I don't really understand the purpose of the rest of the deck, unless you custom made this just to test if that combo works or not.
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@FindingHeart8
I will answer in the deckbuilding channel when I get a couple minutes -- so we don't derail this thread.1 -
Froggy said:I really appreciate the discussion that everyone has put up here in this thread. A lot of constructive ideas and useful input. I’m really pleased to see that D3 and the devs actually paid attention to all this and have made a fix on the card.
I think the fix they have made is just and will make the card playable and again a very powerful addition to the DOM set. Not broken, but powerful.
So thank you all for contributing and thank you @Brigby and D3 for listening.
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bken1234 said:@FindingHeart8
I will answer in the deckbuilding channel when I get a couple minutes -- so we don't derail this thread.fair enough.Back on topic: The artwork of this gilded lotus pails in comparison to some of the earlier artwork, in my opinion:
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