Daredevil217 said: tiomono said: And tapping is equally available to all players. So it is a level playing field. Truth. Sm0keyJ0e said: Because "time invested" does not take into account roster growth, which is the ENTIRE POINT OF THE GAME. There is no end game--you play to grow your roster and advance. Advancement in the game is in strength of roster. A stronger roster can clear PVE faster. Is this deal? I dunno--would prefer a mix of roster development and skill. But that doesn't exist.In every RPG I've ever known, and MPQ classifies itself as such, you play to grow your roster so you can defeat tougher enemies and win more rewards. It should not be based solely on time invested, which is what tapping currently is. Your awesomely awesome roster enables you to tap faster and thus get more points than someone with a lesser roster in the same amount of time.
tiomono said: And tapping is equally available to all players. So it is a level playing field.
Sm0keyJ0e said: Because "time invested" does not take into account roster growth, which is the ENTIRE POINT OF THE GAME. There is no end game--you play to grow your roster and advance. Advancement in the game is in strength of roster. A stronger roster can clear PVE faster. Is this deal? I dunno--would prefer a mix of roster development and skill. But that doesn't exist.In every RPG I've ever known, and MPQ classifies itself as such, you play to grow your roster so you can defeat tougher enemies and win more rewards. It should not be based solely on time invested, which is what tapping currently is.
CharlieCroker said: It isn't hypocritical at all. They tested win based PvP - flaws were pointed out from the start and our feedback seemed to be ignored until, for whatever reason, after a full season of the madness/misery they reverted back to progression based.They tested PVE without tapping - on these forums at least the test was generally well received. Successful tests should be more likely to be implemented, unsuccessful or flawed ones should either be abandoned or, if it's a route the devs feel they need to go down, adjusted.
Sm0keyJ0e said: Daredevil217 said: tiomono said: And tapping is equally available to all players. So it is a level playing field. Truth. Sm0keyJ0e said: Because "time invested" does not take into account roster growth, which is the ENTIRE POINT OF THE GAME. There is no end game--you play to grow your roster and advance. Advancement in the game is in strength of roster. A stronger roster can clear PVE faster. Is this deal? I dunno--would prefer a mix of roster development and skill. But that doesn't exist.In every RPG I've ever known, and MPQ classifies itself as such, you play to grow your roster so you can defeat tougher enemies and win more rewards. It should not be based solely on time invested, which is what tapping currently is. Your awesomely awesome roster enables you to tap faster and thus get more points than someone with a lesser roster in the same amount of time. Should it be a level playing field? I'm being honest. Should everyone in the game have the ability to earn all the rewards by simply investing the most time? If so, we need to remove clearance ranks and open the flood gates and let's get our 24-hour tap-a-thon on, because that's what it will become/is becoming.This is a silly debate. Time invested != get all the thingz. If what I outlined above happened (or continues to happen), everyone who spends even a nickel on this game would leave.
ZeroKarma said: Spudgutter said: LifeofAgony said: I’m totally comfortable losing to people when it’s an even play fielding. If my best placement is t10 on a level field, then so be it. But without tapping, t5 was never a question for me. And I'm totally comfortable losing to people who put in the extra effort than i am (my best placement is top 50 with or without tapping). Honest question, why do you think your perception is worth more than mine?Both sides have stated their take on the issue ad nauseam. But it really boils down to this, doesn't it? Some people care, and some people don'tTo add to it, think about when they ran a test for PVP to wins based. Again, a situation that benefited some, and held back the rewards of others. If you believe their statements and that a test shows they are trying to improve a system, then why were so many people (including those against tapping) against it? You either accept that they are trying to make the game better and more fair (get rid of tapping and make pvp wins-based) or you would rather people who put in extra effort get extra rewards (tap to your hearts content and use battle chats to get thousands of points in PVP). I think you're conflating issues that are apples and oranges. 1) If you are a top-tier player who complained about win-based PvP (me! me! me!), it's because it turned PvP into a long grind. It enabled people to make progression more easily UNLESS they had a high roster and wouldn't hit the required number of wins until they got to 2000 points. What it took to get progression was divorced from what it took to get placement. So.....the goal was the same. Less grinding!2) I have heard people say why tapping is ok because people spent a lot of time on the game, but none that really explains why eliminating it would be a bad thing. The only real argument is about time slices, and that's a completely different issue! 3) What is completely ironic is that there are not any tappers on here defending tapping! Spudgutter, if you are only a T50 player then you aren't affected by tapping, and you surely aren't tapping.
Spudgutter said: LifeofAgony said: I’m totally comfortable losing to people when it’s an even play fielding. If my best placement is t10 on a level field, then so be it. But without tapping, t5 was never a question for me. And I'm totally comfortable losing to people who put in the extra effort than i am (my best placement is top 50 with or without tapping). Honest question, why do you think your perception is worth more than mine?Both sides have stated their take on the issue ad nauseam. But it really boils down to this, doesn't it? Some people care, and some people don'tTo add to it, think about when they ran a test for PVP to wins based. Again, a situation that benefited some, and held back the rewards of others. If you believe their statements and that a test shows they are trying to improve a system, then why were so many people (including those against tapping) against it? You either accept that they are trying to make the game better and more fair (get rid of tapping and make pvp wins-based) or you would rather people who put in extra effort get extra rewards (tap to your hearts content and use battle chats to get thousands of points in PVP).
LifeofAgony said: I’m totally comfortable losing to people when it’s an even play fielding. If my best placement is t10 on a level field, then so be it. But without tapping, t5 was never a question for me.
aesthetocyst said: Spudgutter said ... Why should they even be spending the time fixing something that so few people benefit from? Yeah! Lets bring back baking!This decision affects everyone who plays pve. Pretending it doesnt is simplistic.
Spudgutter said ... Why should they even be spending the time fixing something that so few people benefit from?
Spudgutter said: CharlieCroker said: It isn't hypocritical at all. They tested win based PvP - flaws were pointed out from the start and our feedback seemed to be ignored until, for whatever reason, after a full season of the madness/misery they reverted back to progression based.They tested PVE without tapping - on these forums at least the test was generally well received. Successful tests should be more likely to be implemented, unsuccessful or flawed ones should either be abandoned or, if it's a route the devs feel they need to go down, adjusted. they tested wins based for a full season. they told us ahead of time that they were testing a full season. they didn't ignore feedback, they just didn't stop the test halfway through because people had complaints. I'm glad they didn't stop! i want them to have the most complete and accurate data as possible. as to the reaction to both tests, i think we can agree that reactions on the forum have to be taken with a giant grain of salt. Hyperbole, sarcasm and confirmation bias are everywhere. aesthetocyst said: Spudgutter said ... Why should they even be spending the time fixing something that so few people benefit from? Yeah! Lets bring back baking!This decision affects everyone who plays pve. Pretending it doesnt is simplistic. i call shenanigans. we can argue about how many people it affects, but no way 100% are affected. i play the same way pretty much every event, and my placement is in the same area pretty much every event, even the tapping test event. 251st through 999th are not impacted by tapping. anyone placing that low is going for progression or less and out. that there alone disproves your statement. i would gamble that tapping doesn't even start having an impact until you crack top 20, at best, imo.
ZeroKarma said: Spudgutter said: CharlieCroker said: It isn't hypocritical at all. They tested win based PvP - flaws were pointed out from the start and our feedback seemed to be ignored until, for whatever reason, after a full season of the madness/misery they reverted back to progression based.They tested PVE without tapping - on these forums at least the test was generally well received. Successful tests should be more likely to be implemented, unsuccessful or flawed ones should either be abandoned or, if it's a route the devs feel they need to go down, adjusted. they tested wins based for a full season. they told us ahead of time that they were testing a full season. they didn't ignore feedback, they just didn't stop the test halfway through because people had complaints. I'm glad they didn't stop! i want them to have the most complete and accurate data as possible. as to the reaction to both tests, i think we can agree that reactions on the forum have to be taken with a giant grain of salt. Hyperbole, sarcasm and confirmation bias are everywhere. aesthetocyst said: Spudgutter said ... Why should they even be spending the time fixing something that so few people benefit from? Yeah! Lets bring back baking!This decision affects everyone who plays pve. Pretending it doesnt is simplistic. i call shenanigans. we can argue about how many people it affects, but no way 100% are affected. i play the same way pretty much every event, and my placement is in the same area pretty much every event, even the tapping test event. 251st through 999th are not impacted by tapping. anyone placing that low is going for progression or less and out. that there alone disproves your statement. i would gamble that tapping doesn't even start having an impact until you crack top 20, at best, imo. By that same token, 99% of the people in the game were unaffected by cupcakes, but they were killed because they..... well, still not sure on that.
Michaelcles said: Surprised by the pro-tapping posts. I figured they would be too busy tapping.
HoundofShadow said: I disagree with moving placement rewards to progression rewards. Just look at the top placement rewards for SCL 7 to 9. They are not going to give the rest of 950 to 990 players per slice/bracket guaranteed 3 4* covers, a few thousand iso-8, a hundred or so HP, or 1 or 2 LT. The placement-turned-progression rewards would be bad and/or they will increase the difficulty level in such a way that only a % of the players are able to get the last 3 or 5 progression rewards.For example, 1) enemies' level would be scaled according to the top 2 or 3 characters of your roster and then an extra 50-150 levels after crossing a certain amount of progression points.2) if you can't clear x node within y minutes or within y moves regardless of any reason, it is still considered as 1 completion and you would be awarded 0 point and lose a node reward. When you can clear the node successfully, minus 1/3 of the original node point for each of your characters that are down for whatever reason or the % of points reduced would be equivalent to the % of all three characters remaining hp over all three characters' total hp.I'm curious. Has anyone actually done a poll asking those players affected by tappers which SCL(s) and slice they play in? I don't suppose that tapping would affect those playing SCL 5 and lower.