Tapping.....

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  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daiches said:
    Bowgentle said:
    The rockett said:

    I am in the same boat as Zero Karma was last event.  Did my grind in 23 mins and now in 8th place because they tapping an extra 500 points in sub 1. 

    In fact, I cleared sub 2 first in 19 mins and they are still not done with theirs.  They cannot keep up with pure speed, they can only win to tap tap tap for 3-10 hours each sub.  only way they can win. 

    In s1, maybe.
    In s2 they finish the clears first AND then tap on top of that.
    Why clear fast when you know you're gonna tap? An extra 15 minutes to compensate for slow clears is nothing to them.
    You gotta ask the Octopodes why they clear fast AND tap, I have no answers for you.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    OJSP said:
    Was 10th after the first clears of the first sub. Maybe mistimed my grind slightly so I fell to 14th (my Archangel is not championed, so I’d rather have some spare time to repeat the node if I had to). However, the points spread of those above me showed that even if I played optimally, I’d fall out of t10 anyway.

    Not going to discuss the tappers and give them the attention, they know who they are. Finished 8th for the 2nd sub’s clears.. With the weekend coming, I’m guessing I’ll drop out of t20 by the end of this sub. :lol:
    Yep I feel exactly the same.
    2.9 is just ridiculous at this point.
  • Dogface
    Dogface Posts: 999 Critical Contributor
    Whether you tap or you don't, t10 is what it is. Just 10 people. In a non-tap world there's a pretty good chance too you won't get there. If 11 people here on the forum claim they'd hit t10 easily, someone will miss the boat (provided they play the same bracket. Sure i'd be hearing about that if i didn't mention it).
    And t5 is, the smart ones might figure, only 5 people.

  • Dogface
    Dogface Posts: 999 Critical Contributor
    I'd like to see all people here vying for top placement competing in one bracket for once. That's the true test. I'd be on the sideline watching the big dogs fight it out.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dogface said:
    Whether you tap or you don't, t10 is what it is. Just 10 people. In a non-tap world there's a pretty good chance too you won't get there. If 11 people here on the forum claim they'd hit t10 easily, someone will miss the boat (provided they play the same bracket. Sure i'd be hearing about that if i didn't mention it).
    And t5 is, the smart ones might figure, only 5 people.

    We'd all be fine to lose T5 to a faster player.
    We definitely would make T10 in a non-tapping bracket, trust us on that.
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
    I finished clears no worse than 3rd any sub during TaT (finished first twice) and did grinds similar in time to rockett and I wound up over 1k behind 1st place.  Remove tappers from my bracket and 7 players vanish from t10.

    Stop the madness already and implement the fix permanently.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dogface said:
    Whether you tap or you don't, t10 is what it is. Just 10 people. In a non-tap world there's a pretty good chance too you won't get there. If 11 people here on the forum claim they'd hit t10 easily, someone will miss the boat (provided they play the same bracket. Sure i'd be hearing about that if i didn't mention it).
    And t5 is, the smart ones might figure, only 5 people.

    During the non tapping test, I got first like I used to before tapping went crazy. 

    Last event, I got 2nd by 20 points. Got passed by a friend. 

    As Bow said, we know how we will stack up because we know how fast others are.  
  • Dogface
    Dogface Posts: 999 Critical Contributor
    So, OJSP, Bowgentle, Life of Agony and The Rockett so far. Places fill up quickly. 
  • Dartmaster01
    Dartmaster01 Posts: 634 Critical Contributor
    edited March 2018
    Dogface said:
    I'd like to see all people here vying for top placement competing in one bracket for once. That's the true test. I'd be on the sideline watching the big dogs fight it out.

    You obviously don't remember before time slices and clearance levels then. Every event was pretty much this. I'm in and let's take it back to roster based scaling while we are at it so everyone gets the full experience.
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
    I’m totally comfortable losing to people when it’s an even play fielding.  If my best placement is t10 on a level field, then so be it.  But without tapping, t5 was never a question for me.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    And tapping is equally available to all players. So it is a level playing field.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    LifeofAgony said:
    I’m totally comfortable losing to people when it’s an even play fielding.  If my best placement is t10 on a level field, then so be it.  But without tapping, t5 was never a question for me.
    And I'm totally comfortable losing to people who put in the extra effort than i am (my best placement is top 50 with or without tapping).  

    Honest question, why do you think your perception is worth more than mine?

    Both sides have stated their take on the issue ad nauseam.  But it really boils down to this, doesn't it?  Some people care, and some people don't

    To add to it, think about when they ran a test for PVP to wins based.  Again, a situation that benefited some, and held back the rewards of others.  If you believe their statements and that a test shows they are trying to improve a system, then why were so many people (including those against tapping) against it?  

    You either accept that they are trying to make the game better and more fair (get rid of tapping and make pvp wins-based) or you would rather people who put in extra effort get extra rewards (tap to your hearts content and use battle chats to get thousands of points in PVP).  
  • Sm0keyJ0e
    Sm0keyJ0e Posts: 730 Critical Contributor
    Because "time invested" does not take into account roster growth, which is the ENTIRE POINT OF THE GAME. There is no end game--you play to grow your roster and advance. Advancement in the game is in strength of roster. A stronger roster can clear PVE faster. Is this deal? I dunno--would prefer a mix of roster development and skill. But that doesn't exist.

    In every RPG I've ever known, and MPQ classifies itself as such, you play to grow your roster so you can defeat tougher enemies and win more rewards. 

    It should not be based solely on time invested, which is what tapping currently is.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I find tiomono's comment funny in a way because it is logical but it could also piss off other players who are anti-tapping. Still, you can't deny what tiomono said is logical. Tapping is available to everyone.

    If we were to follow through with this, then it would boil down to each individual's priority. Is getting top placement rewards a high enough priority in your life to tap away at the nodes and tap ahead of other tappers? If you've decided that getting the top placement rewards does not occupy the higher or highest priority in your life, then accept the next best rewards.

    On the other hand, tapping is not a desirable way of playing MPQ PvE and the developers have publicly announced it.  As such, tapping is a problem. Even if you disagree with it, you still have to accept it that developers would be removing or ending tapping problems in the future. When? No players know as of now. 

    End of the day, removing tapping still doesn't create a "level playing field" for other groups of players. I believe we would see this being discussed somewhere in the future after tapping is removed...

    As of now, let's wait for the news that tapping would be gone for a long time... 




  • ZeroKarma
    ZeroKarma Posts: 513 Critical Contributor
    Spudgutter said:
    LifeofAgony said:
    I’m totally comfortable losing to people when it’s an even play fielding.  If my best placement is t10 on a level field, then so be it.  But without tapping, t5 was never a question for me.
    And I'm totally comfortable losing to people who put in the extra effort than i am (my best placement is top 50 with or without tapping).  

    Honest question, why do you think your perception is worth more than mine?

    Both sides have stated their take on the issue ad nauseam.  But it really boils down to this, doesn't it?  Some people care, and some people don't

    To add to it, think about when they ran a test for PVP to wins based.  Again, a situation that benefited some, and held back the rewards of others.  If you believe their statements and that a test shows they are trying to improve a system, then why were so many people (including those against tapping) against it?  

    You either accept that they are trying to make the game better and more fair (get rid of tapping and make pvp wins-based) or you would rather people who put in extra effort get extra rewards (tap to your hearts content and use battle chats to get thousands of points in PVP).  

    I think you're conflating issues that are apples and oranges. 

    1) If you are a top-tier player who complained about win-based PvP (me! me! me!), it's because it turned PvP into a long grind. It enabled people to make progression more easily UNLESS they had a high roster and wouldn't hit the required number of wins until they got to 2000 points. What it took to get progression was divorced from what it took to get placement. So.....the goal was the same. Less grinding!

    2) I have heard people say why tapping is ok because people spent a lot of time on the game, but none that really explains why eliminating it would be a bad thing. The only real argument is about time slices, and that's a completely different issue! 

    3) What is completely ironic is that there are not any tappers on here defending tapping! Spudgutter, if you are only a T50 player then you aren't affected by tapping, and you surely aren't tapping. 
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    aesthetocyst said:
    Spudgutter said:

    You either accept that they are trying to make the game better and more fair (get rid of tapping and make pvp wins-based) or you would rather people who put in extra effort get extra rewards (tap to your hearts content and use battle chats to get thousands of points in PVP).  
    Invalid comparison; transition to participation PvP does not eliminate or reduce extra effort to win. Rather it piled on pressure to use battle chats to rack up insane scores, as part of that test moved a valuable resource from progression to placement. And players who crank out the crazy scores are blowing way past 40 wins, so that was no concern for them either.
    Seeing as how the main crux of the arguement is that they are being pushed out of placement and not getting the top rewards, i think the comparison is valid.  They were trying to level the progression playing field and make the rewards available to everyone.

    But, that wasnt what i was pointing at.  Some have made the arguement that the test meant the devs were looking to make a change and that means we should accept the incoming change.  Some of those same people argued against the wins based change.  Comes off a little hypocritical to me.

    I agree now and agreed then that taking the cp out of progression was dumb.
  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    It isn't hypocritical at all.  They tested win based PvP - flaws were pointed out from the start and our feedback seemed to be ignored until, for whatever reason, after a full season of the madness/misery they reverted back to progression based.

    They tested PVE without tapping - on these forums at least the test was generally well received.  Successful tests should be more likely to be implemented, unsuccessful or flawed ones should either be abandoned or, if it's a route the devs feel they need to go down, adjusted. 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,967 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    And tapping is equally available to all players. So it is a level playing field.
    Truth.

    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    Because "time invested" does not take into account roster growth, which is the ENTIRE POINT OF THE GAME. There is no end game--you play to grow your roster and advance. Advancement in the game is in strength of roster. A stronger roster can clear PVE faster. Is this deal? I dunno--would prefer a mix of roster development and skill. But that doesn't exist.

    In every RPG I've ever known, and MPQ classifies itself as such, you play to grow your roster so you can defeat tougher enemies and win more rewards. 

    It should not be based solely on time invested, which is what tapping currently is.
    Your awesomely awesome roster enables you to tap faster and thus get more points than someone with a lesser roster in the same amount of time.

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