[Resolved] ]Lost 5* Strange, No help in sight.

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  • spectator
    spectator Posts: 395 Mover and Shaker
    Rolling his account back would be nice. That way he loses a few weeks of progress, not a few years
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
    mexus said:
    As reference my alliance mate sold all his 5* (on purpose), changed his mind, had a long battle with CS that eventually restored them all.
    There’s no rhyme or reason to it.  Sometimes it’s just getting the right CS rep on the right day at the right time. Spending is about the only commonality I’ve found.  The more you’ve spent, the higher your odds.  Not that should surprise anyone, but when all things are equal, it’s literally a shot in the dark as to whether or not you’ll get the magic exception.
  • sirwookieechris
    sirwookieechris Posts: 131 Tile Toppler
    edited December 2017
    spectator said:
    Rolling his account back would be nice. That way he loses a few weeks of progress, not a few years
    That would be an interesting, but fair, compromise. "rollback" instead of just giving it back. Whatever his roster was on the beginning of the last month is what he would have now. Trade the rewards you've made in the last x days to fix your mistake.

    Of course selling covers for iso and hp makes it more complicated. Unless you revert ISO and HP/CP too. But then people would abuse if their hoard pulls were bad. Maybe not as fair as originally thought...
  • spectator
    spectator Posts: 395 Mover and Shaker
    I was under impression that rollback affects everything. It’s basically reverting back to a previous save state
  • MacEifer
    MacEifer Posts: 45 Just Dropped In
    Matt Murdock said:
    MacEifer said:
    [...]
    Let's assume this is the case for the sake of argument. Lets assume that CS doesnt want to restore his character because this is something that people would abuse in some way. That being the case, wouldnt they want to be sure that he did it purposefully? Losing a 5* character isnt something to be taken lightly. With the amount of effort it takes to champion a 5* in this game, its something they could easily lose customers over.

    Say all you want that its his fault, that he should have been more careful, that he shouldnt play while intoxicated (seriously?? You cant enjoy a leisure activity with a beer? Tinykitty off...). But the fact is that i have accidentally bought a 40 pack while sober. I placed my phone face down with the screen on, and in the act of picking it back up i somehow hit purchase and confirmed it. It can happen. Falling asleep while playing is another likely situation which could result in a lost 5*. And the fate of the best characters in the game that take ages to build should not lie behind a couple button presses. I asked CS to restore my HP but they told me that because there is a confirmation button, i had no recourse. I had nightmares about accidentally selling a 5* after that. But after thinking about it i guess i assumed that CS would do the right thing and restore it to me. I am very saddened to learn that that is not the case.

    My point is, a simple confirm button isnt enough to establish intent. It isnt enough to protect your account against other people securing your phone, against your will, and deleting your characters. And in rare (but clearly not impossible) circumstances, it isnt enough to prevent an accident. I maintain that selling a 5* specifically needs to be pin protected, and until that is the case it is unfair to hold the customer to their (possibly unintentional) actions. They need a better way to establish that it was done intentionally before they go categorically denying these sorts of claims. To be quite honest, it reflects very poorly on them because it makes them look greedy. Innocent until proven guilty!
    This really doesn't hold up and I'll tell you why.

    You have not the slightest idea what people tell you when they want their stuff back and start pleading their case.
    I've spoken to people who with a straight face told me their dog needed surgery and they had to sell their account so Fido could be cancer free again.
    There is no investigating if something happened with intent or for the wrong or right reasons. If you make your customer support people sit through that bull then you might be handing out vodka shots at the start of their shifts. They'll need them.
    The only way to put a stop to that is clear rules. It's your phone, your game, take care of it. If you're prone to butt dialing, better make sure you engage your lock screen.

    The whole innocent until prven guilty thing bugs me. There's some assumption there that there would be a version of the situation where you would be entitled to get help. You did it with intent, you don't get help. You did it by mistake you don't get it either.

    There's a case to be made here that you maybe should get help if you did it with intent, because your intent can be reasoned with whereas your butterfingers or lack of device security can not. When someone nukes their roster and then sees the error of their ways, that is something you can work with. You can't work with "the dog ate my homework" stories.

  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    Steel Colt said:
    Nick441234 said:
    So you've accidentally sold a character before, and gone and done it again. Its hard to be sympathetic if you've been careless twice. 
    Extra harsh coming from one Nick to another, but I have to agree... The game doesn't sell a character by itself, so you must have accidentally done it yourself...
    Still very painful.
    I understand it must be horrible, but the game does warn you prior to you selling a character. I dont see how its possible to do this without being really, really careless. 
  • gmtosca
    gmtosca Posts: 278 Mover and Shaker
    I've been there so I hope you get it back.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    d90 said:
    Look I get what you're all saying. The "be more careful" lines are all well and good, but I maintain that I didn't sell it. The way the UI is designed, you could put the phone in your pocket and buy stuff just by the phone going around in your pocket. Even if they, with all finality, say no, at least a little more light is shed in this situation. What id like to see, is a better system for selling high level characters. Many games require you to physically type the word delete or sell to do those actions. A 2yo could grab your phone and hose 2-3 years worth of game time. . . A confirm button is not enough for 5*. 
    How many confirmation buttons is enough?  The confirmation button exists to prevent these accidental sales, while it's not impossible to to still sell from a pocket push, it's pretty unlikely that the two precise button presses happen to facilitate that.  Add to that the fact that it sounds like you're saying this has happened to you twice now seems pretty unlikely.  Also locking your phone with password or bio-metric before pocketing it would go a long way towards stopping this also.

    Also as stated someone else (2 year old or not) grabbing your phone and effecting your game is also on you.  Lock your phone.  It's on you if you leave an unlocked phone in reach of a 2 year old or any other human without supervision.  

    I hope you can get your Strange back, but if you do or don't you need to learn from your mistake or be doomed to keep repeating it.
  • NotBAMF
    NotBAMF Posts: 408 Mover and Shaker

    I accidentally bought $5 worth of Iso once, so I do get that there are times when you do things you absolutely wouldn't do under any circumstance (Luckily $5 is negligible enough that I just said "eh, whatever" and never did anything about it) even with confirmation screens in place.

    But yeah, while this absolutely stinks for the OP, you've got to secure your game if you're positive you didn't do this. Don't let kids play with your phone; put a lock screen on it, etc.

    My question is... can CS verify that you had a 5* Strange to sell? Why wouldn't everyone just be like "Uh, yeah, I had a max champed 5* Strange I lost. Can you maybe replace that for me?". And if they CAN verify that you had that character, I think @spectator 's recommendation is best; they should just do a rollback to your settings when you last had what you want back.  

  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    It's the last bullet of private messages.  E-mails between you and CS or you and Brigby are private, meaning not public.  It could be more clearly spelled out, but when I read rule 7 I understood how they were applying it.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    The bottom line is that they have done this for other to fix this issue. This is not new unfounded ground that the OP is asking for here.  He is asking for help as a paying customer that something happened and he doesn't know why?  These are the type of things that really don't make sense to me.  You would hope that this company would be supported of you if something goes bad.  I personally have seen the same exact issue happen within days of each other and CS treat people differently and they have almost the same roster, above 500+ 5*.  If you are saying that people should. It be helped out, does that mean if you have a Facebook saving issue they should just tell you to get bent?  Come on. 
  • DaBeast911
    DaBeast911 Posts: 77 Match Maker
    @d90

    I sympathize with you and agree 100%. It takes no extra work to restore your 5 star, people have had it done before. I've seen entire rosters deleted on a video and then miraculously restored so restoring a character is a minor feat. It would be such a big deal if it is was a 3 star or heck even a 4 star but those 5 stars are extremely rare to come by and then to accidentally sell one is deflating. A year ago, restoring it wouldn't have been a problem, I sold a fully covered 266 Storm and had it restored, no problem. They simply looked at my roster the day before I sold it, saw it was there and replaced it. Heck, they even let me keep the ISO, which I was shocked by. I sympathize with you and hope that it works out.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2017
    DaBeast911 said:
    @d90

    I sympathize with you and agree 100%. It takes no extra work to restore your 5 star, people have had it done before. I've seen entire rosters deleted on a video and then miraculously restored so restoring a character is a minor feat. It would be such a big deal if it is was a 3 star or heck even a 4 star but those 5 stars are extremely rare to come by and then to accidentally sell one is deflating. A year ago, restoring it wouldn't have been a problem, I sold a fully covered 266 Storm and had it restored, no problem. They simply looked at my roster the day before I sold it, saw it was there and replaced it. Heck, they even let me keep the ISO, which I was shocked by. I sympathize with you and hope that it works out.

    It's impossible that it "takes no extra work to restore your 5 star".  I don't know how much extra work it is, but the fact that someone needs to read a ticket and respond to it invalids your statement.  If it were no extra work it would be fully automated and require 0 human interaction.  I don't know how complex it would be to restore a 5* and neither do you.  I would guess it's not overly complicated, but again I don't truly know.  Let's say for the sake of argument it takes 10 minutes and CS can do it.  If they applied a policy of everyone can blanket undo a delete of any character and 1% of the players base takes advantage of this twice a year or more.  Let's suppose the game has 100,000 active players (I'm guessing i have no idea).  CS is now spending 10,000 minutes or 167 hours or 21 business days a year just supporting fixing peoples mistakes.  It's even worse if you consider it could take developer involvement and then you're taking 21 days of development time away from the game to support this for all players.

    The point is something small done a lot really adds up, a lot more than you'd initially think.  As a small company they have to make choices as far as what their CS resources can spend time doing.  They have to put barriers to the time spent on such things otherwise actual support issues and or development couldn't done (or they'd over hire, become non-profitable, and the game tanks).  

    I see more validity in the argument that they should support for all or support it for none. However since 100% of their revenue is micro transactions and most likely only a small percent spend a lot and an even smaller extent spend a ton they make exceptions for those players that spend enough that losing their business would hurt.

    All that to say you can spout all day how easy it is and they should just grant any request that comes buy, but at the end of the day they are a business with limited resources and they have to choose how to spend those resources effectively to keep the game running and profitable. To make a parallel let's say your roster was full of sentient characters.  If 1* Spider-Man makes a mistake that would cost you 1000 ISO to fix and there was a reasonable likelihood that more characters would make that same mistake, would you be willing to sacrifice your gameplay to accommodate them?  Even if 1* Spider-Man just deleted himself from your roster would that kill your gameplay?  Conversely if L500 Gambit made the same mistake for 1000 ISO it would probably be worth it to you to keep him from deleting itself.  These are the kinds of decisions Demi's management has to make to keep the game going.  For better or for worse.
  • DaBeast911
    DaBeast911 Posts: 77 Match Maker
    edited December 2017
    broll said:
    DaBeast911 said:
    @d90

    I sympathize with you and agree 100%. It takes no extra work to restore your 5 star, people have had it done before. I've seen entire rosters deleted on a video and then miraculously restored so restoring a character is a minor feat. It would be such a big deal if it is was a 3 star or heck even a 4 star but those 5 stars are extremely rare to come by and then to accidentally sell one is deflating. A year ago, restoring it wouldn't have been a problem, I sold a fully covered 266 Storm and had it restored, no problem. They simply looked at my roster the day before I sold it, saw it was there and replaced it. Heck, they even let me keep the ISO, which I was shocked by. I sympathize with you and hope that it works out.

    It's impossible that it "takes no extra work to restore your 5 star".  I don't know how much extra work it is, but the fact that someone needs to read a ticket and respond to it invalids your statement.  If it were no extra work it would be fully automated and require 0 human interaction.  I don't know how complex it would be to restore a 5* and neither do you.  I would guess it's not overly complicated, but again I don't truly know.  Let's say for the sake of argument it takes 10 minutes and CS can do it.  If they applied a policy of everyone can blanket undo a delete of any character and 1% of the players base takes advantage of this twice a year or more.  Let's suppose the game has 100,000 active players (I'm guessing i have no idea).  CS is now spending 10,000 minutes or 167 hours or 21 business days a year just supporting fixing peoples mistakes.  It's even worse if you consider it could take developer involvement and then you're taking 21 days of development time away from the game to support this for all players.

    The point is something small done a lot really adds up, a lot more than you'd initially think.  As a small company they have to make choices as far as what their CS resources can spend time doing.  They have to put barriers to the time spent on such things otherwise actual support issues and or development couldn't done (or they'd over hire, become non-profitable, and the game tanks).  

    I see more validity in the argument that they should support for all or support it for none. However since 100% of their revenue is micro transactions and most likely only a small percent spend a lot and an even smaller extent spend a ton they make exceptions for those players that spend enough that losing their business would hurt.

    All that to say you can spout all day how easy it is and they should just grant any request that comes buy, but at the end of the day they are a business with limited resources and they have to choose how to spend those resources effectively to keep the game running and profitable. To make a parallel let's say your roster was full of sentient characters.  If 1* Spider-Man makes a mistake that would cost you 1000 ISO to fix and there was a reasonable likelihood that more characters would make that same mistake, would you be willing to sacrifice your gameplay to accommodate them?  Even if 1* Spider-Man just deleted himself from your roster would that kill your gameplay?  Conversely if L500 Gambit made the same mistake for 1000 ISO it would probably be worth it to you to keep him from deleting itself.  These are the kinds of decisions Demi's management has to make to keep the game going.  For better or for worse.
    We are trying to help him and you wish to throw shade. Do me a favor, anything I comment on, just ignore.

    **Removed attacks on other persons -  Ducky
  • carrion_pigeons
    carrion_pigeons Posts: 942 Critical Contributor
    If they have good logging (likely) and competent coders (well...), then they could automate this process completely and eliminate both the CS burden and the begging.  World of Warcraft does it, I know.  Individual item restoration is not a big CS issue, or at least it doesn't need to be.  When you start talking about buying a 40-pack, I can see how things start to get complicated, but a single character shouldn't be difficult to restore completely automatically.

    If for some reason they don't log deletions (why?) then this conversation gets to be a lot harder, since it stops being a CS question and starts being a code question.  I don't have much faith in the programmers who designed this game, for various reasons, but even so I really have a hard time imagining that they don't log game actions like this.  That's the thing that makes this level of resistance so confusing to me.  Either it should be incredibly easy, literally taking zero time or attention to do, or else it should be completely impossible, but if it's impossible, then it says really terrible things about how the game has been put together and managed.

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