Please nerf 5* Gambit

GrumpySmurf1002

Dayv said:

And I'd be totally fine with this getting announced hand-in-hand with a far more needed and drastic redesign to Gambit at both the 3* and 5* tiers.

Drastic?  Make his AP gen contingent on there being his colored charged tiles on board, and he's fixed.  Hardly a major overhaul.  

Alternatively, have him generate all colors, 1 AP per that color charge on board.  

There's nothing wrong with the powers themselves, it's how fast he can produce them.  

I mean, better solution is to get a character that blocks his AP gen some other way so he has a direct counter, but sure, always nerf.   

thedarkphoenix

Dayv said:

thedarkphoenix said:

You'll also notice that 3 star gambit isn't really the topic of discussion like he was a few weeks ago...

and that's because his damage isn't insane and his utility isn't near as good.

I used a 3* Gambit team (along with 3* Storm) in a Daredevil Lightning Round today to take down a team with champed 5* Thanos and 5* Spidey (Peter Parker).  None of my 3* champs were maxed out, and my Daredevil wasn't even as big as the enemy's.  3* Gambit is *also* a problem, not because of his damage output (although his purple is no slouch) but because of the constant AP feeding to his actives and the feeding from his red to random AP for the rest of the team.

I find this hard to believe as they literally could match you to death before you can do enough damage to nuke them down, but I'll take your word for it.

 I've taken down champed 5 teams with my punisher 3 team... doesn't mean punisher OP even though we all know its strictly because of his red that I was able too do it easily.


3 gambit is not a problem, just stop it. he's a good battery at 3 and decent damage and that's about it, 3 strange and hawkeye are just as good.

entrailbucket

I don't understand why the BP/Thanos combo seems to be getting so much attention here.  Maybe because I play in a less populated slice I don't see it as much, but even pre-Gambit I hardly ever ran into them.  I have both those guys but I don't really use them together in PvP since they're so slow, and I have never had a problem mowing them down in PvP, even at higher levels.

I came up with my favorite fix so far for Gambit.  Keep him exactly as is, but add "Gambit takes 5,000 damage" to the passive ability.  The damage would increase or decrease per cover level, and be taken each turn he generated AP (which is each turn).  This lets him keep his advantage on offense (since I guess everyone needs him to beat the super-difficult BP/Thanos combo), but makes him much much easier to kill on defense.  It trades his speed for sustainability, which is something that the designers have indicated is ok before (Thanos, Sentry, Carnage).  Plus it makes him much more interesting to use!  Now you actually have to decide on his spec, and if you let the fight drag on too long he can die.  Also, if he does die to some combination of enemy damage and self-damage, you still have whatever unused AP he generated.

And, of course, it results in selling more health packs, which everyone knows is the developers' secret desire and is at the root of every change they've ever made.

GrumpySmurf1002

entrailbucket said:

I don't understand why the BP/Thanos combo seems to be getting so much attention here.  Maybe because I play in a less populated slice I don't see it as much, but even pre-Gambit I hardly ever ran into them. 

This seems impossible.  They were literally the meta from the moment Panther hit tokens until Gambit's release.  And they're still the choice of anyone not running Gambit.

I mean, I guess once you cross 500 maybe your meta is built with actual diversity of other 500 characters (or all grills), but at the 450-470 level it was all Panthos all the time after about 800, maybe lower.

entrailbucket

I was feigning a bit of ignorance there, although it was indeed true that I didn't see those guys too much. 

The combo is/was overused because it's really good at beating cupcake teams, but the downside is that it's not very good at beating not-cupcake teams.  If you're fighting a match against a cupcake team that includes a 3* loaner, you can kill that guy very quickly and get the combo going.  If you're fighting a maxed out 3* with 40-50k health + 2 champion 5*, the combo can work, but since they don't have any direct damage it's very slow to get it going.

Since there aren't cupcakes where I play, and most of the teams I'm fighting are lvl266 3* + 2x lvl450+ 5*, I never really used or saw BP/Thanos very much.  If the development team could finally eliminate the cupcake exploit, that particular combo would be much less widely used, or at least much less effective.

PenniesForEveryone

GrumpySmurf1002 said:

entrailbucket said:

I don't understand why the BP/Thanos combo seems to be getting so much attention here.  Maybe because I play in a less populated slice I don't see it as much, but even pre-Gambit I hardly ever ran into them. 

This seems impossible.  They were literally the meta from the moment Panther hit tokens until Gambit's release.  And they're still the choice of anyone not running Gambit.

I think your memory is a little fuzzy here....  On release Thanos was believed to be broken due to how high his team damage was.  People didn't like using him because he was a health pack suck, and shortly after his release his team damage was reduced slightly (although that might have only been on the 3* version, my memory is a little fuzzy as well :-P)

And Panther was rated as the worst 5* by far by a notable whale and consequently largely dismissed by the rest of the community at his launch as well.  You didn't have quite the same number of hoarders at the time, and so the Panthos meta was actually pretty slow to develop.

I only mention it in comparison since for so long we have all agreed that Panthos is THE PvP meta, but the combo wasn't exactly perceived as being so dominant or OP at launch.  Compare now to Gambit who seems universally agreed to be at least the strongest 5* in the game if not game-breakingly OP.....at launch.  What do you think he will do to the meta 6 months from now if allowed to reign without a nerf until then???

therightwaye

Is this the current tread for balance or Nerf talk? 

Beer40

PenniesForEveryone said:

GrumpySmurf1002 said:

entrailbucket said:

I don't understand why the BP/Thanos combo seems to be getting so much attention here.  Maybe because I play in a less populated slice I don't see it as much, but even pre-Gambit I hardly ever ran into them. 

This seems impossible.  They were literally the meta from the moment Panther hit tokens until Gambit's release.  And they're still the choice of anyone not running Gambit.

  What do you think he will do to the meta 6 months from now if allowed to reign without a nerf until then???

I think you'l be able to sell every 2 of his covers for 1 *special* cover, provided youve also spent ISO to level him

Piro_plock

therightwaye said:

Is this the current tread for balance or Nerf talk? 

If a character is as OP as Gambit, then the simplest way to balance them is nerf (and let's be honest, every change that tones him down will be called a nerf). Easier to implement than boosting all others in that tier.

therightwaye

Sorry is this the official Nerf and or balance thread? 

broll

therightwaye said:

Sorry is this the official Nerf and or balance thread? 

It's the thread for scruffy looking nerf herders.  

therightwaye

broll said:

therightwaye said:

Sorry is this the official Nerf and or balance thread? 

It's the thread for scruffy looking nerf herders.  

Yeah, but that's all of us right? Anyhow, I had some thoughts but this is too much to follow. 

Jabrony_Geoff

Under no circumstance should Gambit be nerfed. 
I beat Gambit all the time in pvp.
Dont do it MPQ, these people asked for him now they don't like him. DONT DO IT !! His pvp win points are always high.
  

PenniesForEveryone

When fighting a level 506 Medusa, 540 Thor, and 450 Gambit........I take out Gambit first.  That's pretty telling.

tiomono

PenniesForEveryone said:

When fighting a level 506 Medusa, 540 Thor, and 450 Gambit........I take out Gambit first.  That's pretty telling.

I would target a hood that was 100 levels weaker than one of his allies first as well. Any character that is that low level wise will have less health and makes a good priority.

Piro_plock

tiomono said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

When fighting a level 506 Medusa, 540 Thor, and 450 Gambit........I take out Gambit first.  That's pretty telling.

I would target a hood that was 100 levels weaker than one of his allies first as well. Any character that is that low level wise will have less health and makes a good priority.

Unless you're running Thanos that shouldn't always be the case. In my opinion better to take out the biggest threat first - it might be an AP stealer, a battery, someone with a dangerous/irritating passive or big nuke/AOE. Gotta save them healthpacks if possible.

tiomono

Piro_plock said:

tiomono said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

When fighting a level 506 Medusa, 540 Thor, and 450 Gambit........I take out Gambit first.  That's pretty telling.

I would target a hood that was 100 levels weaker than one of his allies first as well. Any character that is that low level wise will have less health and makes a good priority.

Unless you're running Thanos that shouldn't always be the case. In my opinion better to take out the biggest threat first - it might be an AP stealer, a battery, someone with a dangerous/irritating passive or big nuke/AOE. Gotta save them healthpacks if possible.

So wanting to target gambit first proves he needs a nerf? Then there is a large portion of the character pool that also need nerfed.

Piro_plock

tiomono said:

So wanting to target gambit first proves he needs a nerf? Then there is a large portion of the character pool that also need nerfed.

No, but considering a 450 5* a bigger threat than BOTH a top tier 4* at lvl 500+ and a very good 5* that's 90 levels higher (literally 2x stronger than base champ level!) does.

PenniesForEveryone

tiomono said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

When fighting a level 506 Medusa, 540 Thor, and 450 Gambit........I take out Gambit first.  That's pretty telling.

I would target a hood that was 100 levels weaker than one of his allies first as well. Any character that is that low level wise will have less health and makes a good priority.

I'm not killing him first because he is the easiest target, I'm killing him first because he is the largest threat.

thedarkphoenix

aesthetocyst said:

tiomono said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

When fighting a level 506 Medusa, 540 Thor, and 450 Gambit........I take out Gambit first.  That's pretty telling.

I would target a hood that was 100 levels weaker than one of his allies first as well. Any character that is that low level wise will have less health and makes a good priority.

Any character that manipulates AP is a priority target.

thedarkphoenix said: [a bunch of stuff in this and another thread]

I don't want Gambit made weaker. I want the devs to remember how the game works, realize they broke it, and unbreak it. Conditionless, automatic, free AP circumvents the basic premise of the game. Everything else about Gambit is fine, it's fodder for power creep. 5Gambit's damage numbers would have been OP last year, but will be pedestrian next year.

And yes, I do think Thanos should be nerfed as well. When 1 character in a game with 148 or 149 or 150 (depends when you're reading this LOL) shifts the meta in all game events, in a way that becomes permanent, that's a problem. Hell, way back when a character released into a much smaller game had that kind of impact, they were nerfed, invariably. Even tho it's obviously much easier for a new character in a game with only a couple dozen characters to have that impact, they were nerfed. Only court death when a power is fired? Sure. Only court death when he kills someone? Even better. Just like how 3BE was nerfed .... no more knives for everybody

Gambit is and will continue to have a disproportionate impact, not to the degree of Thanos, but every bit as persistent. Due to the free AP, he will be hanging around like a bad cold permanently ... unless they release more OP characters in the same free AP vein.

FWiW, BP is just a coattail rider.

Anyway, this thread is about the Gambit screwup, not any other mistakes..

Sounds like you want a very boring game, a lot of the characters on this game do the same thing the same way already, meta shifting is going to happen not matter what, doesn't matter what you think the condition for it should or shouldn't be.

Also gambit's AP gneration is not Condition less, he prevents others from using powers of the same color. Now how that should work or how well it works is another story.

Hood was the closet thing to a Condition less requirement for AP...but even then it required a certain amount of colors on the board and for the opponent to have those colors

I do think gambit should be toned down a bit, but I like when a company pushes the boundaries for there game play mechanic's. If every character just matched some color's and fired a power...yeahhhhh i'd be long gone as would alot of other people i think.



In a nut shell I think anyone that can passively affect AP in anyway needs to be good at that and not a bunch of things like attacking, CC and Ap generation. That's the same problem hood had, he was good at getting AP, he did damage with his yellow and it board shake with CC and he reduced counter timers. That's too much... and gambit is another case of doing to much but too much with good health.