Please nerf 5* Gambit

ZootSax · November 2017

Milk Jugz said:

Beer40 said:

Milk Jugz said:
That would just make it so you can't use him as a 005 red/purple battery. But, who's using a 005 5* Gambit? No, that wouldn't do anything at the 5* level, 3* yes, 5* no.

Someone is. I saw it in the Punisher PVP. I'm just glad I clicked on the roster first. Taking out a 3* GamBattery is easy. But that 5* one had 18k or 19k health. I wasn't going to risk it.

Also, they had no dupe 5* Gambit, so it may be they just got one from RNG.

Wow!! Really!! So, is that extremely lucky??? Or extremely unlucky???

I've seen four 5* Gambit batteries over the past season--one was only 0/0/3, but at least two were 0/0/5. I honestly don't remember the 4th, but it was no worse than 0/0/3.

shadowyoshi · November 2017

I've seen 5 different 5* GamBatterys. Given I'm not in the 5* tier this is nuts (I do have a 9 cover Phoenix at 375 and usually have a couple of champed boosted 4s each week).

Beer40 · November 2017

451 Starlord, 377 Nova, loaner Hulk just smoked a 451 Gambit, 402 Prof X, loaner Hulk. I could use my Starlord/Nova w/o healthpacks again if I want.

No, I don' see the need for a nerf.

TheDobot · November 2017

why is 0/0/5 so bad??

I think its cool that they have a character you need to think about before leveling up. It gives gambit an actually RPG element.

Dartmaster01 · November 2017

Beer40 said:

451 Starlord, 377 Nova, loaner Hulk just smoked a 451 Gambit, 402 Prof X, loaner Hulk. I could use my Starlord/Nova w/o healthpacks again if I want.

No, I don' see the need for a nerf.

This exactly, I've been beating Gambolt teams all week. It's really not that hard. And now I have a 4/0/4 5* Gambit (fully leveled) and don't even use him. He's just the new good character and wasn't there several threads that say all said the same things about Thanos. You eventually figure out how to deal with new character and move on. It's called a strategy/puzzle game for a reason. Give it time you'll see.

Pongie · November 2017

aesthetocyst said:

PenniesForEveryone said:
And that day will be November 28th because everyone and their brother has a high level Medusa post vaulting.

I'm really looking forward to receiving my 2 champ levels. Gonna be a game changer!

My 1/0/0 will be 2/1/0.

Orion · November 2017

My 2 cents for fixing Gambit:

1) Make his purple only affect countdowns at 5 covers. Right now 3/5/5 is his best build because his purple is good enough at 3 covers. Make people make the tough decision whether 5 purple covers is worth it.

2) Red doesn't gain AP. Come on, his black gains enough AP without this ridiculous addition to his red. If 2 red tiles are charged it's a 1 AP power that does 18k damage.

That should be enough to keep him top tier but not stupidly game breaking.

Jonny1Punch · November 2017

Orion said:

My 2 cents for fixing Gambit:

1) Make his purple only affect countdowns at 5 covers. Right now 3/5/5 is his best build because his purple is good enough at 3 covers. Make people make the tough decision whether 5 purple covers is worth it.

2) Red doesn't gain AP. Come on, his black gains enough AP without this ridiculous addition to his red. If 2 red tiles are charged it's a 1 AP power that does 18k damage.

That should be enough to keep him top tier but not stupidly game breaking.

Orion said:

My 2 cents for fixing Gambit:

1) Make his purple only affect countdowns at 5 covers. Right now 3/5/5 is his best build because his purple is good enough at 3 covers. Make people make the tough decision whether 5 purple covers is worth it.

2) Red doesn't gain AP. Come on, his black gains enough AP without this ridiculous addition to his red. If 2 red tiles are charged it's a 1 AP power that does 18k damage.

That should be enough to keep him top tier but not stupidly game breaking.

This ^

At least for starters.

RemoDestroyer · November 2017

What am I doing wrong? Gambit is good. Great even. But I don't see how he wrecks the game.

My 457 Gambit is terrible on defense. I get beat 9 out of 10 times I'm attacked. I think i have a solid roster. The first 3 5s and all 5s from Dr Strange to Daredevil are champed. All but 10 4s are champed. And I'm getting smoked if i float.

On offense I'm still pretty regularly burning through health packs. He's certainly not the health pack saver oml was or Daredevil can be.

My Black Bolt is only 3/1/3. Is that the difference that's not letting me see what everyone is talking about?

There has always been a power couple in this game as others have said. If it's not Gambolt it will just be another pair.

I'm also guessing once 6*s are introduced (I think future fight has has had them for a while now) Gambit won't seem so op.

Avalanche Kincaid · November 2017

Going to be funny when medusa starts spitting out bolt in a few days and the army of champed bolts arrive holding hands with his best friend champed gambit. Gambolt vs. Gambolt is easily winnable, but you will pay a hefty price (2 healthpacks and torturous annimations every round).

Magic · November 2017

Bolt is a "pre-hoard" classic - not that many people will have him championed. And it takes 320 Medusa to get t3 covers. Most of the players who have 320 Medusa probably will only add 3 champ levels to their Bolt.

In perspective - I have only one 4* above 310 (and maybe one other around 305). So it's not like 3 covers from Medusa are so close (she is not even lvl 300). I regard myself as average-to-above-average-FTP player. Thus i can't compete with P2W crowd anyway.

Magic · November 2017

aesthetocyst said:

Magic said:

Bolt is a "pre-hoard" classic ...

"Pre-hoard"? I opened my first hoard just after Civil War. Hoarding has been around a long time. Pre-"the hoi polloi catching on to the wisdom of hoarding" you mean

Yeah - let's call it that way

Dartmaster01 · November 2017

OJSP said:

RemoDestroyer said:
My Black Bolt is only 3/1/3. Is that the difference that's not letting me see what everyone is talking about?

Yes.

Don't let these guys fool you. It might help a little on offense but you will still lose most defensive matches. I've only lost to one gambolt team recently and it was only because they were 60 levels above my champed 5s and I went in with half health. The more people figure him out the less he is going to be the auto-win everyone seems to think he is.

Sm0keyJ0e · November 2017

Dartmaster01 said:

OJSP said:

RemoDestroyer said:
My Black Bolt is only 3/1/3. Is that the difference that's not letting me see what everyone is talking about?

Yes.

Don't let these guys fool you. It might help a little on offense but you will still lose most defensive matches. I've only lost to one gambolt team recently and it was only because they were 60 levels above my champed 5s and I went in with half health. The more people figure him out the less he is going to be the auto-win everyone seems to think he is.

I don't think anyone is positing that he's impossible to beat. But he has a broken mechanic in the auto-AP generation. It's really just lazy game design and no other playable character in the game does anything like that. If they made it have a threshold, like you have to have 8 black ap first, or maybe for 6 black ap it creates red and purple charged tiles... that would make more sense and still keep him incredibly powerful. But mainly, there's a defense for those types of mechanics. There is no strategy to deny Gambit from generating this **** on his own and after 2-3 turns he's launching powers that, quite frankly, ARE OP.

Simply compare his toolkit to any other 5*. No one does what he does.

Beatable? Yeah. Pain in the **** even at low levels? Hell yeah.

Ruinate · November 2017

Here we go. People have resorted to using defensive win rate to argue against nerfing Gambit. Makes a lot of sense actually that these people think ai is on par with human intelligence. Hmm

RTA3000 · November 2017

Regular Stark buying?!? Wow, kudos to you guys that can afford $/£100 a month on a mobile game, my salary barley supports the $/£10 per month! This is why i'll struggle to compete in this game.... $$$$$$$$

GrimSkald · November 2017

OJSP said:

Dartmaster01 said:

OJSP said:

RemoDestroyer said:
My Black Bolt is only 3/1/3. Is that the difference that's not letting me see what everyone is talking about?

Yes.

Don't let these guys fool you. It might help a little on offense but you will still lose most defensive matches. I've only lost to one gambolt team recently and it was only because they were 60 levels above my champed 5s and I went in with half health. The more people figure him out the less he is going to be the auto-win everyone seems to think he is.

But I was answering that specific question, without going into too much detail that others have mentioned many times already. If someone has 3/1/3 Bolt to pair with a championed Gambit, it's just asking to get hit. If Gambit is paired with other 5*s than Bolt, he's not that as difficult to beat.

You have Panthos (and other options). That's enough to beat Gambolt. I beat them with Strange Thanos sometimes if I got a lucky board. But, I'd avoid it if I can unless they are worth a lot of points because fighting them just means taking guaranteed damage (as my Strange tanks for Thanos! stupid RNG )

Gambolt is just plain gross, I'm not taking Panthos into that fight - I give it at best 50/50 that I win and don't wipe. As opposed to pretty much any other team where I figure my chance to win is somewhere north of 90% (i.e. I wipe about 1 in 10 fights, and that's probably a high estimate at that, it's probably closer to 1 in 15 or so.) Remember, you wipe, you're down 3 health packs, some points (hopefully not too much if they were worth something,) and a fair bit of time. Wiping just plain sucks rocks.

I've had some success with using Strange and Panther, but if you end up with Strange in front he crumples really easily. Not to mention that's a terrible defensive team.

Look at my roster. I have all the 5*s from Black Bolt to Spider-Man (save Star Lord and Doc Ock, no great loss,) plus OML and Silver Surfer (Phx has evaded me.) I just plain don't mess with Gambit unless I have no other choice. He and Thanos, Hawkeye, or OML are significantly better than literally any team I can field (including Coulhawk. Gambit purple nullifies Coulhawk unless you get lucky.) Gambit and Black Bolt are a lot better than any team I can field.

Dartmaster01 · November 2017

OJSP said:

GrimSkald said:
Gambolt is just plain gross, I'm not taking Panthos into that fight - I give it at best 50/50 that I win and don't wipe.

Ah.. I don't know what to say.. I suppose I was trying to guess what other teams to use to beat Gambolt.. I wasn't sure if Dartmaster was using Panthos or the other options (I can think of one or two that could work this event).. I'll let him answer if he wants to.

I did use panthos most of the time but I did beat it with other teams in the beginning. So far, panthos has been about 98% for me and the ones I lost I was either at half health, biting off more than I could chew or both. About half of the matches I didn't even take any damage.

Make of that what you will. All I'm saying is that he hasn't been hard for me. I realize I'm in the minority on this but simply adding my opinion to the mix. Everyone in here is entitled to their opinion and hopefully it accurately represents their experience. There just hasn't been many (if any) nerfs that weren't to heavy handed and a few months down the road seen as completely unnecessary.

CharlieCroker · November 2017

Dartmaster01 said:

OJSP said:

GrimSkald said:
Gambolt is just plain gross, I'm not taking Panthos into that fight - I give it at best 50/50 that I win and don't wipe.

Ah.. I don't know what to say.. I suppose I was trying to guess what other teams to use to beat Gambolt.. I wasn't sure if Dartmaster was using Panthos or the other options (I can think of one or two that could work this event).. I'll let him answer if he wants to.

I did use panthos most of the time but I did beat it with other teams in the beginning. So far, panthos has been about 98% for me and the ones I lost I was either at half health, biting off more than I could chew or both. About half of the matches I didn't even take any damage.

Make of that what you will. All I'm saying is that he hasn't been hard for me. I realize I'm in the minority on this but simply adding my opinion to the mix. Everyone in here is entitled to their opinion and hopefully it accurately represents their experience. There just hasn't been many (if any) nerfs that weren't to heavy handed and a few months down the road seen as completely unnecessary.

I've bolded the bit I struggle to believe. Even if every match was vs the loaner Hulk, to avoid damage (excluding self damage of course) you'd have to clear 11,000 health in 3 moves, then whatever else is left (20k+ health on Bolt/Gambit after Panther strikes) immediately.

Tough to do consistently. You must get a lot better boards that I do at least 50% of the time.

WelcomeDeath · November 2017

Lot of arguments made in this thread. I notice most of the pro-bit camp are newer/lower 5* guys or people who missed out on the last meta, that's certainly telling. Got a few comments to make.

1. The idea that people were calling for a nerf to Thanos and Panther when they were released. This is just nonsense. People thought Thanos was awful upon release, and thought Panther was worse (a very prolific spender listed him at the very bottom of the 5* tier upon his release). Please stop spreading this disinformation, it's totally false. People called for a nerf to Panthos after OML was nerfed, not much before that. There's months of separation there.

2. Gambit "levels the playing field" or "is just the new meta (like there have been meta changes before". Ok, let's look at this one. There are players with level 500+ 5* running 450-460 gambit. You didn't see anything like this when the meta went from oml/Phx to bolt/strange, bolt/nat (mostly because people didn't have them), or thanos/panther. It just didn't happen. The power creep was there but it wasn't *that* much of a step up.

3. Let's look at point 2 from a defensive standpoint, or the AI playing your team. When Panthos took over the meta when people finally realized they didn't suck, you'd likely get beat in PvP, sure, because you couldn't climb as fast against even similar leveled rosters. You could if you had higher level 5s. Panthos could best your 500s, but not regularly and it was still very much a deterrent, but I digress. Point is you could beat Panthos with pretty much any other 5* combo, or 5/4* combo with good synergy. Try doing that with gambit. Want to run goblin or Hawkeye? Gambit just overwrites your countdowns and reds you to death. Same with ock, who is worse than the others because his CD needs to survive 3 iterations to be effective. How about good old oml/Phx? Maybe if they're much higher level, but gambit is just gonna overwrite your strikes and slow you down , a lot. Nat? Too expensive. Banner? Cap? Maybe? There are some teams that work because they can deal damage really quickly, stun gambit, or both. But if you've gotta kill or stun an AI opponent BY like turn 3 to be successful, that's ridiculous. And if you can't even bring certain characters from the same tier at the same level to fight him, that's just plain broken.

4. Nobody has brought it up yet that I've seen, but there are other 5* or 5*/4* combos that *can* down level 500s or even level 550s from base level. The difference there is there's a huge risk of just being obliterated if there's a bad board or things don't go right. You don't need a good board with gambit or especially gambolt. You don't need to collect AP. You don't need to do anything but match any color 3 and push the red and purple buttons. A trained monkey could run gambit, even against 500s. And to be honest, if I'd spent the $15,000 Or so to get 500s and had them made worthless overnight, I wouldn't spend another dime. If I was a new spender and saw those investments devalued like that I wouldn't bother getting that high, either.

Tl/Dr version: gambit is ridiculously OP. This isn't power creep, it's a massive step up, too big of a step up. Make him powerful? Sure. Make him the best 5? Why not? But there's no need for one character to make half the tier unusable, or to end up having to use him every match to keep up when there's 19 other options.

Please nerf 5* Gambit

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