Please nerf 5* Gambit

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  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,976 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    As much as I like my GamBat, in terms of lore I would have preferred his black ability to be geared toward AP theft. I mean he was raised in Thieves Guild after all. But I guess since 5* Star Lord got the thieving ability with his "Something bad", the devs felt they needed to do something to make Gambit unique which to their credit falls in line with their design goals for the 5* tier and does make sense if you consider the ability has him charging his cards.

    With that said, I think we need to look at the bigger picture here.

    Now let me preface this by saying this purely speculation on my part but there are a number of factors that lead me to believe that Gambit was chosen to be OP for a reason:

    1. The 5* buff: A change in PvP meta
    2. The dominance of Panthos for most of 2017
    3. The popularity of Gambit: Most requested character
    4. The hoard

    First and foremost, I am surprised that this meta-shift with the 5* buff hasn't become a more popular topic of discussion outside how it has affected PvE with 5* essential nodes. This is going to drastically change up the PvP meta (hopefully for the betta! Sorry couldn't help myself). From here on out, we are going to see 4 weeks of an uber-powered new 5* character.

    If you are big whale or careful planner or waiting for that one character you love to get the 5* treatment, you might be able to splurge and get to enjoy those full 4 weeks, while those of us who are  operating with more finite resources might be able to enjoy 2 weeks of god mode (pun intended). And of course, the vast majority of the player base will only see a trickle down effect of this new system (for ex: a player with a three star roster manages to get 4 covers and PvE CL 6 becomes a breeze for a couple of weeks and such).

    But at the highest tier, you are basically going to see the haves and have-nots split become more pronounced. This is where the OP nature of Gambit comes into play. According to my pet theory, he exists as a bridge. A means for a player to survive this meta-change. Not everyone will be able to keep up with the new 5* release schedule, and in those situations they can rely on Gambit to help see them through this new meta-shift.

    Why the change? If you have been playing at the highest levels of PvP, then you know that for the greater part of this year, PvP has been dominated by Panthos. Before that it was the blink and you almost missed it reign of BB and BW and before them the original 5* King and Queen, OML/PHX.

    Now, we are looking at a meta-shift that basically guarantees every month you will be dealing with a new "meta" defining character (barring potential duds. Hey not everyone can be rock your socks awesome).

    But as I mentioned, not everyone is going to be able to keep up. I know a lot of people were hoarding up for Thor and I am sure the devs were aware of this. And while he has failed to live up to many people's expectations (including yours truly, although he does seem pretty good, but I will stop myself here before I go off an fan boy rant on the injustice done to the god of thunder) , the devs did deliver a meta-changer: Gambit, the single most requested character in the game and gave him his current power set knowing while it is OP it will help those who are not able to keep up with new meta shift still compete.

    Will he get a nerf? Perhaps, but probably not in the near future or at least until people have adapted to the new PvP meta and the devs determine whether he is affecting the new meta negatively. I think something we have to keep in mind is that not everyone is able to champ a new 5* off the bat.  And it is my belief that Gambit is supposed to help mitigate that.

    But again, these are just my thoughts on the issue.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    fight4thedream said:
    As much as I like my GamBat, in terms of lore I would have preferred his black ability to be geared toward AP theft. I mean he was raised in Thieves Guild after all. But I guess since 5* Star Lord got the thieving ability with his "Something bad", the devs felt they needed to do something to make Gambit unique which to their credit falls in line with their design goals for the 5* tier.

    With that said, I think we need to look at the bigger picture here.

    Now let me preface this by saying this purely speculation on my part but there are a number of factors that lead me to believe that Gambit was chosen to be OP for a reason:

    1. The 5* buff: A change in PvP meta
    2. The dominance of Panthos for most of 2017
    3. The popularity of Gambit: Most requested character
    4. The hoard

    First and foremost, I am surprised that this meta-shift with the 5* buff hasn't become a more popular topic of discussion outside how it has affected PvE with 5* essential nodes. This is going to drastically change up the PvP meta (hopefully for the betta! Sorry couldn't help myself). From here on out, we are going to see 4 weeks of an uber-powered new 5* character.

    If you are big whale or careful planner or waiting for that one character you love to get the 5* treatment, you might be able to splurge and get to enjoy those full 4 weeks, while those of us who are  operating with more finite resources might be able to enjoy 2 weeks of god mode (pun intended). And of course, the vast majority of the player base will only see a trickle down effect of this new system (for ex: a player with a three star roster manages to get 4 covers and PvE CL 6 becomes a breeze for a couple of weeks and such).

    But at the highest tier, you are basically going to see the haves and have-nots split become more pronounced. This is where the OP nature of Gambit comes into play. According to my pet theory, he exists as a bridge. A means for a player to survive this meta-change. Not everyone will be able to keep up with the new 5* release schedule, and in those situations they can rely on Gambit to help see them through this new meta-shift.

    Why the change? If you have been playing at the highest levels of PvP, then you know that for the greater part of this year, PvP has been dominated by Panthos. Before that it was the blink and you almost missed it reign of BB and BW and before them the original 5* King and Queen, OML/PHX.

    Now, we are looking at a meta-shift that basically guarantees every month you will be dealing with a new "meta" defining character (barring potential duds. Hey not everyone can be rock your socks awesome).

    But as I mentioned, not everyone is going to be able to keep up. I know a lot of people were hoarding up for Thor and I am sure the devs were aware of this. And while he has failed to live up to many people's expectations (including yours truly, although he does seem pretty good, but I will stop myself here before I go off an fan boy rant on the injustice done to the god of thunder) , the devs did deliver a meta-changer: Gambit, the single most requested character in the game and gave him his current power set knowing while it is OP it will help those who are not able to keep up with new meta shift still compete.

    Will he get a nerf? Perhaps, but probably not in the near future or at least until people have adapted to the new PvP meta and the devs determine whether he is affecting the new meta negatively. I think something we have to keep in mind is that not everyone is able to champ a new 5* off the bat.  And it is my belief that Gambit is supposed to help mitigate that.

    But again, these are just my thoughts on the issue.

    You're assuming the devs have any clue about high level PVP play, outside of their metrics.
    4 years of experience would suggest the opposite.
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    I would assume that the nerfing folk would be also fine with minimal adjustments to the Panthos pair while the D3 whips around? Let's say Thanos black triggers only when somebody was killed with a power (not match damage) and BP would only kick back when he returns from his Invisibility (not Stun which doesn't make sense from flavor perspective anyway). Minor changes to both that would help balance the meta after your desired Gambit nerf.
  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    Magic said:
    I would assume that the nerfing folk would be also fine with minimal adjustments to the Panthos pair while the D3 whips around? Let's say Thanos black triggers only when somebody was killed with a power (not match damage) and BP would only kick back when he returns from his Invisibility (not Stun which doesn't make sense from flavor perspective anyway). Minor changes to both that would help balance the meta after your desired Gambit nerf.
    Panthos aren't OP. They're fine as they are, they do some things very well and some things not at all well. 

    I'm speaking as someone who has every 5, except gambit and thor champed and who uses all of them semi-regularly including Ock, Banner and a currently 11-cover Gambit, and only pulls out Panthos a couple of times a pvp, after I've run through the rest of my roster. Gambit is a completely different level. 
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    That's your experience with the top roster. My is different. I have 2 champed 5* (Strange and OML) and I have to skip Panthos if I don't want to use 2-3 health packs. Pretty similar to what I see with Gambit but the stun works on him better. Without Gambit Phantos is back to leading the pack. I would be happy if that pair gets tweaked a bit to bring them closer to the field of other 5* if the devs decide to nerf Gambit.  
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    After sometime my opinion on gambit has changed a bit, unless  there are some up and coming hard counters or we are just entering into a power creep.

    One of 2 things needs to be looked at with him, either his damage on aces and eights or his AP generation on stacked deck.

    being able to have a low cost nuke that you can self generate is a bit to much. 


    If none of those then he needs to have VERY squishy health lower than strange.


    I don't think the core of the character needs to be changed just some numbers, he hits too hard to be self sustaining. 

    Maybe have him create one charge tile and one for ever downed character?

    I could list off a ton of different ways to keep the spirit of the character that everyone seems to like while not having him totally OP to 95 percent of the cast.




  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    Also the fumble with the pull rates and then cp glitch didn't help when it comes to gambit, and on the fact for almost a month he was buffed.

    Basically instead of people growing there characters together a pretty decent size of the player base (or so it appears) was able to get gambit champed while the rest left behind.




    You'll also notice that 3 star gambit isn't really the topic of discussion like he was a few weeks ago...

    and that's because his damage isn't insane and his utility isn't near as good.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    aesthetocyst said:
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    And that day will be November 28th because everyone and their brother has a high level Medusa post vaulting.
    I'm really looking forward to receiving my 2 champ levels. Gonna be a game changer!
    Tongue in cheek as I know you're being, aes... This change will allow me to champ BB, albeit with a 720 cp investment. Mine is 5/1/5, my Medusa is 308. I'll get green and black covers for my BB, I'll spend 720 cp on another black, champ him (finally!!!), and have a champ level. (Not) patiently waiting......

    It beats the hell out of the 1440 cp investment I was eventually going to put into him......
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst said:
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    And that day will be November 28th because everyone and their brother has a high level Medusa post vaulting.
    I'm really looking forward to receiving my 2 champ levels. Gonna be a game changer!
    Clochards already trembling in fear and discussing how to deal with you.
  • PenniesForEveryone
    PenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
    aesthetocyst said:
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    And that day will be November 28th because everyone and their brother has a high level Medusa post vaulting.
    I'm really looking forward to receiving my 2 champ levels. Gonna be a game changer!
    Should be a green and a black right?  If it's your first of either, or 3rd or 5th black, or 13th total in not a 5/5/2 build) it kind of is a game changer.
  • SirHuggyBear
    SirHuggyBear Posts: 24 Just Dropped In
    I haven't read every post here, so sorry if this has been suggested already. But isn't the easiest fix changing his power so it "blocks all other red and purple powers," and NOT "blocks Gambit's active colors?"
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    SirHuggyBear said:
    I haven't read every post here, so sorry if this has been suggested already. But isn't the easiest fix changing his power so it "blocks all other red and purple powers," and NOT "blocks Gambit's active colors?"
    That would just make it so you can't use him as a 005 red/purple battery. But, who's using a 005 5* Gambit? No, that wouldn't do anything at the 5* level, 3* yes, 5* no.
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    Milk Jugz said:
    SirHuggyBear said:
    I haven't read every post here, so sorry if this has been suggested already. But isn't the easiest fix changing his power so it "blocks all other red and purple powers," and NOT "blocks Gambit's active colors?"
    That would just make it so you can't use him as a 005 red/purple battery. But, who's using a 005 5* Gambit? No, that wouldn't do anything at the 5* level, 3* yes, 5* no.
    Someone is. I saw it in the Punisher PVP. I'm just glad I clicked on the roster first. Taking out a 3* GamBattery is easy. But that 5* one had 18k or 19k health. I wasn't going to risk it.

    Also, they had no dupe 5* Gambit, so it may be they just got one from RNG.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Beer40 said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    SirHuggyBear said:
    I haven't read every post here, so sorry if this has been suggested already. But isn't the easiest fix changing his power so it "blocks all other red and purple powers," and NOT "blocks Gambit's active colors?"
    That would just make it so you can't use him as a 005 red/purple battery. But, who's using a 005 5* Gambit? No, that wouldn't do anything at the 5* level, 3* yes, 5* no.
    Someone is. I saw it in the Punisher PVP. I'm just glad I clicked on the roster first. Taking out a 3* GamBattery is easy. But that 5* one had 18k or 19k health. I wasn't going to risk it.

    Also, they had no dupe 5* Gambit, so it may be they just got one from RNG.
    Wow!! Really!! So, is that extremely lucky??? Or extremely unlucky???
  • Beer40
    Beer40 Posts: 826 Critical Contributor
    Milk Jugz said:
    Beer40 said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    SirHuggyBear said:
    I haven't read every post here, so sorry if this has been suggested already. But isn't the easiest fix changing his power so it "blocks all other red and purple powers," and NOT "blocks Gambit's active colors?"
    That would just make it so you can't use him as a 005 red/purple battery. But, who's using a 005 5* Gambit? No, that wouldn't do anything at the 5* level, 3* yes, 5* no.
    Someone is. I saw it in the Punisher PVP. I'm just glad I clicked on the roster first. Taking out a 3* GamBattery is easy. But that 5* one had 18k or 19k health. I wasn't going to risk it.

    Also, they had no dupe 5* Gambit, so it may be they just got one from RNG.
    Wow!! Really!! So, is that extremely lucky??? Or extremely unlucky???
    Based on this post, I'd say extremely lucky. They can always create a dupe when they get a purple or red.
  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    I am aware of a soft-capper who has both a 5/5/2 Gambit at 360 (alongside several fully covered 5*s also at 360) and a 0/0/5 Gambit at 330.

    This thread is about whether a fully covered 5* Gambit should be nerfed, but whatever is or is not done about 3* Gambattery, there's no doubt 5* Gambattery would be a major pain in the tinykitty.

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