Please nerf 5* Gambit

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  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,502 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I think they can't directly nerf him.  Maybe the 3*, but not the 5.  At least not for a loooong time.  Why?  The last thing the devs need to do is nerf a second 5*, close to its date.  Nerfing OML made a lot of paying players mad.  Some quit or stopped spending.  And that was long after he faded to Classics.  Nerfing a character that people spend serious money pursuing is a risky maneuver.  Doing it twice really starts to break the trust that any money spent will have any lasting value.  (Value being relative, but please just grant that point.)

    Yes, there are a lot of Gambits running around that have questionable procurement procedures around them, but there are a lot of them that came from hoards being cashed in, and a lot that just are the result of spenders who may-or-may-not have increased spending when realizing how powerful he is, and that you need him to be competitive.  Need, need, need.

    I have medium draw luck so far, so I have 6 Gambit covers.  I estimate 21 buy clubs ($2100) to reasonably cover Gambit to 13 (7 more covers).  It would be about $3900 to cover all 3 Latests to 13 covers. (AKA to get a Gambit up and running on day 1 or so.)   If you spent somewhere around that much on Gambit and they nerfed him after 4 months (going to Classic is about that timeframe), how would you feel?  Would you keep spending?  Would you seriously draw it down?  There can't be that many whales at this level.  (I hear that there are about 3 people running most of the buy clubs.)  How many whales can a 4 year old game afford to lose? 

    This is not to say that he is not a major problem for game balance.  The devs just screwed this one up in a major way.  Sort of like launching wins based PVP and angering the high end PVP players, then reversing it and angering everyone who liked wins-based PVP.

    There is a rumor that an upcoming 5* will be a counter to Gambit, but it's always hard to see if that works that until the character is used.  Note that in the 4* tier, there is still no real counter to the Brockdusa combo, even after Medusa has moved to Vintage status, and Rocket and Gamora have been in game for 6 months.  The best counter is BSSM, a classic 5* so obviously not very relevant to 4* players.  Vulture can be a decent counter to eliminate strikes but takes a while.  Rogue can be lucky with the right AI matches to avoid some damage.

    The point being, the devs don't seem to launch characters for the sake of balancing other characters; the main goals of each character are to be 1. "Fun" 2. true to the character in feel (does it play like the character's powers operate) 3.  Balanced (they have a "budget" for how much each power can do and how effective it can be.)  Ex:  Nightcrawler has potential winfinite ability, avoids AOE, and spams a color, so his red and blue are both less effective versions of other character's powers.  How the character affects the meta seems almost besides the point.

    So we have, in my opinion, an impasse.  The devs can't really nerf a 5* character close to release.  But he's taken over the tier completely. 

    I hope I'm wrong.  It would partly depend on whales' opinion on Gambit, I guess.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
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    bluewolf said:
    I think they can't directly nerf him.  Maybe the 3*, but not the 5.  At least not for a loooong time.  Why?  The last thing the devs need to do is nerf a second 5*, close to its date.  Nerfing OML made a lot of paying players mad.  Some quit or stopped spending.  And that was long after he faded to Classics.  Nerfing a character that people spend serious money pursuing is a risky maneuver.  Doing it twice really starts to break the trust that any money spent will have any lasting value.  (Value being relative, but please just grant that point.)

    Yes, there are a lot of Gambits running around that have questionable procurement procedures around them, but there are a lot of them that came from hoards being cashed in, and a lot that just are the result of spenders who may-or-may-not have increased spending when realizing how powerful he is, and that you need him to be competitive.  Need, need, need.

    I have medium draw luck so far, so I have 6 Gambit covers.  I estimate 21 buy clubs ($2100) to reasonably cover Gambit to 13 (7 more covers).  It would be about $3900 to cover all 3 Latests to 13 covers. (AKA to get a Gambit up and running on day 1 or so.)   If you spent somewhere around that much on Gambit and they nerfed him after 4 months (going to Classic is about that timeframe), how would you feel?  Would you keep spending?  Would you seriously draw it down?  There can't be that many whales at this level.  (I hear that there are about 3 people running most of the buy clubs.)  How many whales can a 4 year old game afford to lose? 

    This is not to say that he is not a major problem for game balance.  The devs just screwed this one up in a major way.  Sort of like launching wins based PVP and angering the high end PVP players, then reversing it and angering everyone who liked wins-based PVP.

    There is a rumor that an upcoming 5* will be a counter to Gambit, but it's always hard to see if that works that until the character is used.  Note that in the 4* tier, there is still no real counter to the Brockdusa combo, even after Medusa has moved to Vintage status, and Rocket and Gamora have been in game for 6 months.  The best counter is BSSM, a classic 5* so obviously not very relevant to 4* players.  Vulture can be a decent counter to eliminate strikes but takes a while.  Rogue can be lucky with the right AI matches to avoid some damage.

    The point being, the devs don't seem to launch characters for the sake of balancing other characters; the main goals of each character are to be 1. "Fun" 2. true to the character in feel (does it play like the character's powers operate) 3.  Balanced (they have a "budget" for how much each power can do and how effective it can be.)  Ex:  Nightcrawler has potential winfinite ability, avoids AOE, and spams a color, so his red and blue are both less effective versions of other character's powers.  How the character affects the meta seems almost besides the point.

    So we have, in my opinion, an impasse.  The devs can't really nerf a 5* character close to release.  But he's taken over the tier completely. 

    I hope I'm wrong.  It would partly depend on whales' opinion on Gambit, I guess.
    I will hit rocket gamora medusa all day. I do not lose to that team unless I get a really bad board. I use thing medusa antman and just dumpsters em. Your first match needs to have either ant or medusa come to the front. Have thing at 5 yellow and all their march damage is gone.
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I posted back in the OML days how often I saw OML...even undercovered....in matches.

    Thanos was getting pretty heavily used in his prime also.

    I have -never- seen a character more used than Gambit. I really should have tracked sim this season. And he's a very new character. Huge issues out there, and I hope the devs play to a level where they can see them.
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
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    SnowcaTT said:
     Huge issues out there, and I hope the devs play to a level where they can see them.
    There’s another wild assumption.  We already know they don’t play test basically at all, so I have a hard time believing they play to any level that would give them clear picture of how broken gambit is.
  • Jabrony_Geoff
    Jabrony_Geoff Posts: 378 Mover and Shaker
    edited December 2017
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    The moaners and complainers already got PVP switched back to the vile old system.
    The devs must not be cowed and Nerf Gambit because of yet more complainers and moaners.
    When will it end?
    Get a spine, grow a backbone. Tell the cry babies throwing the toys out of the pram to tinykitty off. 

    #justsaying
    #donotnerfgambit 
  • Ryudoz
    Ryudoz Posts: 102 Tile Toppler
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    It's also okay to not put him in EVERY required node. I love how each match now takes 5 minutes plus because every turn he's firing both of his active abilities along with whatever his teammates want. So thanks guys, appreciate this event being a massive slog. 
  • killercool
    killercool Posts: 280 Mover and Shaker
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    For all those that have not had the chance to play against 5* Gambit the 3* Black Widow essential node on day one of the simulator PVE should be a real treat.  Gambit is paired with Rogue and 4* Jean Grey, and I have to say in CL9 that is an unpleasant battle (even using a team that includes a boosted level 560 5* Hawkeye).
  • j0nats
    j0nats Posts: 149 Tile Toppler
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    nerf gambit and we are back to panthos teams again or thanos bolt.   we just reversed back to a meta that has been there for the longest time and frankly needs to change.

    sure nerf gambit.  but prioritize thanos first coz hes been  pretty tops longer with people benefitting longer.. especially with the blazing fast PVE clear times if you have him

    prioritizing the Gambit nerf is seriously a hard-knock for those who hoarded or whaled for gambit, only to be chopped in the nuts after a few months of usage...

    especially tough on those who have gambit as their first top 5*.

    #NeverNerf  - helping this to top trend haha



  • WelcomeDeath
    WelcomeDeath Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker
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    I don't see why Thanos needs a nerf.  He's an awful character and does like no damage at all.  He's an overrated support toon that's good at clearing easy pve nodes.  In PvP he's a pushover to fight.  I always leave him last because he literally just sits there and does nothing.  
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
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    Just because lots of people hoarded is not a reason to allow a broken toon to remain.
  • j0nats
    j0nats Posts: 149 Tile Toppler
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    Welcome Death said:
    I don't see why Thanos needs a nerf.  He's an awful character and does like no damage at all.  He's an overrated support toon that's good at clearing easy pve nodes.  In PvP he's a pushover to fight.  I always leave him last because he literally just sits there and does nothing.  
    a 5* character that was #1 in usage prior to gambit is not an 'awful' character
  • Jonny1Punch
    Jonny1Punch Posts: 434 Mover and Shaker
    edited December 2017
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    Whether you saved for a gambit hoard or not it doesn’t matter, he is beyond broken and destroying the game rapidly. Get over it. This is inevitable and no mercy will be shown when the nerf axe chops down.

    It is no different then spending the same amount of money and time slowly chasing resources for OML back in the day. D3 showed zero disregard for the effect that had. How many players were robbed of time and money for a decent and balanced mid tier 5* needlessly nerfed into oblivion? So because Gambit is a broken, godly 6* that nerf matters more then others? That hoard devalues other hoards?

    I only pray that D3 offers the EXACT same amazing compensation for Gambit as they did for Logan. What was it again? One guaranteed 5* token for every 2 levels you had on a champed logan right? A bit of iso and Hp too?

    So for those of you who have a level 450+ gambit you can look forward to never seeing you’re money or CP back but maybe a handful of guaranteed banner and ock covers. Why should Gambit be any different from how any other nerf was handled? Broken character design and broken compensation should be expected by all at this point. Stop spending or get used to continually being ripped off by an increasingly careless developer making changes that only benefit them financially. No knowledge or regard of the actual game and it’s players has been shown lately outside of the new 5* champ rewards. Everyone should be offended that a quick and shameless cash-grab like gamgod was even introduced in the first place.

  • mr_X
    mr_X Posts: 375 Mover and Shaker
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    Panthos loaner is now being put as a grill team. And I ain't even kidding. 
  • PenniesForEveryone
    PenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
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    j0nats said:
    Welcome Death said:
    I don't see why Thanos needs a nerf.  He's an awful character and does like no damage at all.  He's an overrated support toon that's good at clearing easy pve nodes.  In PvP he's a pushover to fight.  I always leave him last because he literally just sits there and does nothing.  
    a 5* character that was #1 in usage prior to gambit is not an 'awful' character
    I agree with Mr. Death, and Mr. Bucket.  The only reason Panthos was the meta was because of all the cupcake teams that it excels in beating quickly.  Put it up against any A-team with a 412 essential with 40k+health and it's slow to start, and easily defeated.  Thanos is good for PvE, and dealing with loaners in PvP, but on his own he's really not that great.
  • therightwaye
    therightwaye Posts: 459 Mover and Shaker
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    Re evaluated my simple Gambit fix:
    Add AP gain to each color it charges for. No more Gambatt. (ie red covers for red ap gain, etc)
    Black becomes "Charged defense" - Gambit takes "less damage %" for damage over X. When this happens, put CD tile out that lessens damage Gambit does by "less damage %". And lower Gambit HP. Because 5bit is OP.

    I think with that you get a less OP Gambit who is still probably top tier but not as much. And you remove "unintentional" Gambatt (who I love using)

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