Please nerf 5* Gambit

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  • WelcomeDeath
    WelcomeDeath Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker
    j0nats said:
    thedarkphoenix said:
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    madoctor said:
    sambrookjm said:
    Welcome Death said:
    Why do people keep saying Thanos was considered OP upon release?  This is just not true.  Thanos was considered garbage upon release. 
    I remember that...Thanos was considered garbage mainly because his Court Death did more total damage to your own team than it did to the enemy team at LVLs 1-4, I believe.  It switched back at LVL 5, but there was still a LOT of self-hurt from his Court Death ability.  Once that got switched around, and that happened relatively quickly (much quicker than the length of time Gambit's been busted), he improved greatly.
    The one you are talking about who was changed was 3* thanos. We are talking about 5* Thanos whose numbers weren't changed.

    I see many forumites and users here posting who "threatened to quit the game" if the OML nerf wasn't reversed. If you don't get the sarcasm in their posts then I don't know what to say.

    Nerf Thanos and I'd be fine with Gambit nerf (Note - do not have have a Gambit but soon going to champ Thanos). Anyways this is moot since Gambit won't be getting a nerf. Thanos is anyways first in line. Some whale thinks Hawkeye is OP.

    Adapt and survive IMO.
    It's not about "surviving" it's about creating a unique and diverse gaming experience for everyone.  When you just about HAVE to have Gambit to counter Gambit the meta gets old and tired REALLY quickly.  We've spent years building diverse 5* rosters only to have most of them sent off to pasture in favor of the one new OP character that is all but required to successfully compete at the highest level.

    What is this Diverse 5 list that is getting played? At the highest level are more characters viable in pvp?  In pve the fast clearing team will always be played for optimization. But in pvp the only thing I was seeing before gambit was blackbolt and some variation of these two thanos/panther hawkeye/coluson  teams.

    Like I've said before since gambit dropped I've seen gambit+ an array of characters. Yes gambit is the common factor but its still way more varied than it was before he dropped. 


    So i'm confused, because it beginning to sound like gambit is actually only a problem for the tip top upper echelon of players with maxed  or high level 5's. 

       
     yay... someone who also sees the thanos problem.  okay gambit is OP for PVP.  but so is thanos for PVE.  nigh impossible to top pve without champ panthos.

    also prior to the gambit wall from 700 in PVP, it was a Panthos/bolthos wall.

    if d3 wants to solve the imbalance problem, it has to be a wholisic approach as just nerfing gambit will only bring panthos/bolthos back to the fore.
    That was a different type of wall.  You could hit those teams with whoever from the 5* tier with very high degrees of success.  Not the same with gambolt.  Pve with thanos?  Sure, I guess, but not as much in cl9 I don't think.
  • j0nats
    j0nats Posts: 149 Tile Toppler
    Welcome Death said:
    j0nats said:
    thedarkphoenix said:
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    madoctor said:
    sambrookjm said:
    Welcome Death said:
    Why do people keep saying Thanos was considered OP upon release?  This is just not true.  Thanos was considered garbage upon release. 
    I remember that...Thanos was considered garbage mainly because his Court Death did more total damage to your own team than it did to the enemy team at LVLs 1-4, I believe.  It switched back at LVL 5, but there was still a LOT of self-hurt from his Court Death ability.  Once that got switched around, and that happened relatively quickly (much quicker than the length of time Gambit's been busted), he improved greatly.
    The one you are talking about who was changed was 3* thanos. We are talking about 5* Thanos whose numbers weren't changed.

    I see many forumites and users here posting who "threatened to quit the game" if the OML nerf wasn't reversed. If you don't get the sarcasm in their posts then I don't know what to say.

    Nerf Thanos and I'd be fine with Gambit nerf (Note - do not have have a Gambit but soon going to champ Thanos). Anyways this is moot since Gambit won't be getting a nerf. Thanos is anyways first in line. Some whale thinks Hawkeye is OP.

    Adapt and survive IMO.
    It's not about "surviving" it's about creating a unique and diverse gaming experience for everyone.  When you just about HAVE to have Gambit to counter Gambit the meta gets old and tired REALLY quickly.  We've spent years building diverse 5* rosters only to have most of them sent off to pasture in favor of the one new OP character that is all but required to successfully compete at the highest level.

    What is this Diverse 5 list that is getting played? At the highest level are more characters viable in pvp?  In pve the fast clearing team will always be played for optimization. But in pvp the only thing I was seeing before gambit was blackbolt and some variation of these two thanos/panther hawkeye/coluson  teams.

    Like I've said before since gambit dropped I've seen gambit+ an array of characters. Yes gambit is the common factor but its still way more varied than it was before he dropped. 


    So i'm confused, because it beginning to sound like gambit is actually only a problem for the tip top upper echelon of players with maxed  or high level 5's. 

       
     yay... someone who also sees the thanos problem.  okay gambit is OP for PVP.  but so is thanos for PVE.  nigh impossible to top pve without champ panthos.

    also prior to the gambit wall from 700 in PVP, it was a Panthos/bolthos wall.

    if d3 wants to solve the imbalance problem, it has to be a wholisic approach as just nerfing gambit will only bring panthos/bolthos back to the fore.
    That was a different type of wall.  You could hit those teams with whoever from the 5* tier with very high degrees of success.  Not the same with gambolt.  Pve with thanos?  Sure, I guess, but not as much in cl9 I don't think.
    same in cl9.. sure maybe u couldnt speed finish 5e node  with thanos in cl9.  still faster with him on board to clear the other nodes.  

    point is prior to gambit... if you were to get the stats on most used toon for people w thanos is thanos..

    the top people on pvp and pve leaderboards are all thanos users.  

    in pvp no way my surfer phoenix oml and im46 can compete without the kindeness of the shield check community, the top and frontrunners of which all thanos users (prior to gambit)
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2017
    j0nats said:
    Welcome Death said:
    j0nats said:
    thedarkphoenix said:
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    madoctor said:
    sambrookjm said:
    Welcome Death said:
    Why do people keep saying Thanos was considered OP upon release?  This is just not true.  Thanos was considered garbage upon release. 
    I remember that...Thanos was considered garbage mainly because his Court Death did more total damage to your own team than it did to the enemy team at LVLs 1-4, I believe.  It switched back at LVL 5, but there was still a LOT of self-hurt from his Court Death ability.  Once that got switched around, and that happened relatively quickly (much quicker than the length of time Gambit's been busted), he improved greatly.
    The one you are talking about who was changed was 3* thanos. We are talking about 5* Thanos whose numbers weren't changed.

    I see many forumites and users here posting who "threatened to quit the game" if the OML nerf wasn't reversed. If you don't get the sarcasm in their posts then I don't know what to say.

    Nerf Thanos and I'd be fine with Gambit nerf (Note - do not have have a Gambit but soon going to champ Thanos). Anyways this is moot since Gambit won't be getting a nerf. Thanos is anyways first in line. Some whale thinks Hawkeye is OP.

    Adapt and survive IMO.
    It's not about "surviving" it's about creating a unique and diverse gaming experience for everyone.  When you just about HAVE to have Gambit to counter Gambit the meta gets old and tired REALLY quickly.  We've spent years building diverse 5* rosters only to have most of them sent off to pasture in favor of the one new OP character that is all but required to successfully compete at the highest level.

    What is this Diverse 5 list that is getting played? At the highest level are more characters viable in pvp?  In pve the fast clearing team will always be played for optimization. But in pvp the only thing I was seeing before gambit was blackbolt and some variation of these two thanos/panther hawkeye/coluson  teams.

    Like I've said before since gambit dropped I've seen gambit+ an array of characters. Yes gambit is the common factor but its still way more varied than it was before he dropped. 


    So i'm confused, because it beginning to sound like gambit is actually only a problem for the tip top upper echelon of players with maxed  or high level 5's. 

       
     yay... someone who also sees the thanos problem.  okay gambit is OP for PVP.  but so is thanos for PVE.  nigh impossible to top pve without champ panthos.

    also prior to the gambit wall from 700 in PVP, it was a Panthos/bolthos wall.

    if d3 wants to solve the imbalance problem, it has to be a wholisic approach as just nerfing gambit will only bring panthos/bolthos back to the fore.
    That was a different type of wall.  You could hit those teams with whoever from the 5* tier with very high degrees of success.  Not the same with gambolt.  Pve with thanos?  Sure, I guess, but not as much in cl9 I don't think.
    same in cl9.. sure maybe u couldnt speed finish 5e node  with thanos in cl9.  still faster with him on board to clear the other nodes.  

    point is prior to gambit... if you were to get the stats on most used toon for people w thanos is thanos..

    the top people on pvp and pve leaderboards are all thanos users.  

    in pvp no way my surfer phoenix oml and im46 can compete without the kindeness of the shield check community, the top and frontrunners of which all thanos users (prior to gambit)
    Funny, I'm able to climb to 1200 without using shield check rooms and without using my Thanos. I have him champed, but I rarely use him in Versus, for Story only to power through the easy nodes. I don't like using Thanos cause he eats health packs. Now I use Thanos when I'm forced to face a Gambit team because that's all I can find. DD/Thanos is my best bet against him. But, that wasn't my point, my point is just because I have Thanos doesn't mean I had to use him pre-Gambit. And I usually didn't, much more fun to climb with DD/Phoenix or, now since I champed him, DD/BB. You can compete with Thanos users without check rooms, hell Panthos is actually a cupcake once you learn how to beat them. Thanos does nothing if you deny green.
  • WelcomeDeath
    WelcomeDeath Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker
    j0nats said:
    Welcome Death said:
    j0nats said:
    thedarkphoenix said:
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    madoctor said:
    sambrookjm said:
    Welcome Death said:
    Why do people keep saying Thanos was considered OP upon release?  This is just not true.  Thanos was considered garbage upon release. 
    I remember that...Thanos was considered garbage mainly because his Court Death did more total damage to your own team than it did to the enemy team at LVLs 1-4, I believe.  It switched back at LVL 5, but there was still a LOT of self-hurt from his Court Death ability.  Once that got switched around, and that happened relatively quickly (much quicker than the length of time Gambit's been busted), he improved greatly.
    The one you are talking about who was changed was 3* thanos. We are talking about 5* Thanos whose numbers weren't changed.

    I see many forumites and users here posting who "threatened to quit the game" if the OML nerf wasn't reversed. If you don't get the sarcasm in their posts then I don't know what to say.

    Nerf Thanos and I'd be fine with Gambit nerf (Note - do not have have a Gambit but soon going to champ Thanos). Anyways this is moot since Gambit won't be getting a nerf. Thanos is anyways first in line. Some whale thinks Hawkeye is OP.

    Adapt and survive IMO.
    It's not about "surviving" it's about creating a unique and diverse gaming experience for everyone.  When you just about HAVE to have Gambit to counter Gambit the meta gets old and tired REALLY quickly.  We've spent years building diverse 5* rosters only to have most of them sent off to pasture in favor of the one new OP character that is all but required to successfully compete at the highest level.

    What is this Diverse 5 list that is getting played? At the highest level are more characters viable in pvp?  In pve the fast clearing team will always be played for optimization. But in pvp the only thing I was seeing before gambit was blackbolt and some variation of these two thanos/panther hawkeye/coluson  teams.

    Like I've said before since gambit dropped I've seen gambit+ an array of characters. Yes gambit is the common factor but its still way more varied than it was before he dropped. 


    So i'm confused, because it beginning to sound like gambit is actually only a problem for the tip top upper echelon of players with maxed  or high level 5's. 

       
     yay... someone who also sees the thanos problem.  okay gambit is OP for PVP.  but so is thanos for PVE.  nigh impossible to top pve without champ panthos.

    also prior to the gambit wall from 700 in PVP, it was a Panthos/bolthos wall.

    if d3 wants to solve the imbalance problem, it has to be a wholisic approach as just nerfing gambit will only bring panthos/bolthos back to the fore.
    That was a different type of wall.  You could hit those teams with whoever from the 5* tier with very high degrees of success.  Not the same with gambolt.  Pve with thanos?  Sure, I guess, but not as much in cl9 I don't think.
    same in cl9.. sure maybe u couldnt speed finish 5e node  with thanos in cl9.  still faster with him on board to clear the other nodes.  

    point is prior to gambit... if you were to get the stats on most used toon for people w thanos is thanos..

    the top people on pvp and pve leaderboards are all thanos users.  

    in pvp no way my surfer phoenix oml and im46 can compete without the kindeness of the shield check community, the top and frontrunners of which all thanos users (prior to gambit)
    I don't know about that.  I used to climb with everyone from Phoenix to surfer to hawk to GG, starlord, ock, Thanos, strange,BSS, panther,  boosted 4s, unboosted 4s, whoever.  Most of those are useless against gambit or gambolt, unless you have a stun team up.  Thanos sucked on defense.  Most at the top of the leaderboards in most shards weree using him, sure.  But that speaks more to the prevalence of cupcakes or grills or tacos or fried kale sandwiches or whatever the kiddies are calling it these days.  Thanos is really good at beating really weak teams.  That doesn't make him OP.  He's very very slow against full strength teams.
  • John Wayne74
    John Wayne74 Posts: 71 Match Maker
    You assume too much.  My highest two toons are SS and Thanos @ 468 each.  I NEVER use panthos or even Thanos in pve and I rarely ever used them in pvp.  I have 16 Champed 5*’s.  Least used in order is doc, banner, BSSM, Thanos.  I am a “sniper” as they say in pvp.  Yet I don’t use panthos.....  Not everyone plays the game with one set of toons.  Some of us like variety.
  • ZeroKarma
    ZeroKarma Posts: 513 Critical Contributor
    Exactly what Welcome Death stated. There are a multitude of teams to beat Panthos with. My personal favorite was Surfer and Bolt. Bolt passive doesn’t trigger Black Panther and you can take him out reasonably quickly.

    In the current meta you can do it just as easily with Daredevil and Peter Parker, probably Thor too.

    Every team is an easy match for a champed Gambit, especially poor Bolt who is now either the second best character when paired with Gambit or the weakest character when matched up against him, and all of those teams are a crapshoot against Gambit when he is on defense. Instead of bringing new life to the format I feel it has sucked the air out of it.
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
    I will too say I have a multitude of 5s and many fully max 4s, many of which I prefer to utilize in pvp.  I never use Panthos in pvp.  Sure I use thanos in pve, as it’s required to be competitive at the top end of pve.  Frankly I’d be fine if they tweaked thanos, but it’s still does NOTHING to address the 800 lb Cajun in the room - Gambit irrevocably breaks the game for both pvp AND pve given how OP he is with his broken AP generation.
  • ZeroKarma
    ZeroKarma Posts: 513 Critical Contributor
    And now there are no animations to slow him down.
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,699 Chairperson of the Boards

    My Gambit is up to 10 covers (4/3/3) and soft-capped at 405.  I've been bringing him out in the KK with Hawkeye from time to time.  I utterly destroyed a Panthos team - I didn't get particularly lucky with my matches, but I didn't get particularly unlucky either.

    Just throwing that out there.

  • Bulls
    Bulls Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
    In kk pvp I was scated to go even for 400+ gambits worth 50+ points and prefered panthoses bolts (up ro 480lvl) and double maxed 4* even if those were worth around 30+ points... there really shouldnt be character that you can't deny his skills in some way...
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst said:
    Earlier (about 2wks ago) I posted about Gambit being near omnipresent in my queue in Sim, and noted that when I got to near 2000, I could only q Gambit teams.

    I left my squad (10-cover lvl 405 Gambit and 5trangeBolt) floating. After 2wks, it had been beaten all the way down to ... 1650.

    IME, in previous season, a 5* team floats around 1100-1200.

    I wanted to push back up to 2000 and shield out for season end and it was hell. Gambit everywhere. Expensive, matches that are basically coin flips, thanks to having self-accelerating laser cannons on both sides. Board luck ruling supreme.


    As you know I agree with you on Gambit, he needs to be toned down. But I have a similar experience in shield sim this season with my DD5, Parker, BB team I have out. Been floating around 1650 for 3 days now...
  • thisone
    thisone Posts: 655 Critical Contributor
    My Gambolt couldn't float at 1650 in sim, more like 1400. I guess D3s own metrics will sift the truth from the hyperbole. G 459/B 452 for context. Either champed surfer or phoenix as 3rd.

    Truth is, Gambit alone is easy to beat. There are various strategies to do it. 

    Gambit is very strong with Bolt, true. Gambit V Gambit, player is strong favourite. Add Peggy and it's a guaranteed win.

    I remember when Fist debuted at 3*, and everyone was aghast at his "free" damage output. I see Gambit as similar, if you face him you are likely taking a bit of damage. Primarily though because of Bolt. Without Bolt... You can absolutely take him with the same risk as any 5*. With certain caveats.

    Gambolt is the boogieman, but as an owner I can guarantee people can and do hit you.

    The only nerf, I'd advise is:

    If gambit dies. Destroy all purple and red AP. That caveat I talked about? Gambit leaving behind AP for others to use.

    Otherwise, I'm willing to see how the meta shifts during the next few 5* releases. Gambit feels epic, let's see some more 5* in that vein now.




  • madoctor
    madoctor Posts: 292 Mover and Shaker
    I am sure more characters with power creep are coming and in particular those who will somehow counter Gambit will come. You need to let the devs to play this out. The meta will change and the only way it will be through power creep. Next character could be anti Gambit and utterly destroy everything in 5* land, that won't mean it's broken.

    Let it come. It's not like the devs can instantly release five characters to counter Gambit. You need to wait.
  • sambrookjm
    sambrookjm Posts: 2,168 Chairperson of the Boards
    In the Sim, the team I've been using is 4-star Thing at 5/5/3, 4-star Teen Jean at 5/3/5 (although 5/5/3 would probably be better, since I never get enough green to fire off this ability) and 3-star Gambit at 0/0/5.  I've received more defensive wins with this team than I have ever got before.  It eats up the Grocket/Gamora/Medusa teams (by turn 2, THing's shields are out. By turn 4, all of Rocket's strikes are gone.)  Apparently quite a few others as well.
  • John Wayne74
    John Wayne74 Posts: 71 Match Maker
    edited December 2017

    So if we are opting to be this completely lazy.  I say we do this.  Make a new Thanos.  Court death fires as soon as it’s his turn for 200k AoE.  Then to have a counter to that.  Put AP boosts back to two years ago where you could boost x3, before they reduced it to 2x.  Then people can bring ice to instantly stun him first.  Now this will matter little on defense cause someone else will use this new Thanos and instantly kill your team.


    This seems to be what people want.  Super fast, no though matches, with little to no effort at all.


    Should we @brigby on this one.  To make sure it gets back to the developers so they can get to work on it?


    Why not.  Let’s just put the entire game on auto-pilot.  Well as long as you are lucky enough to hoard at the right time and get this new shinny.  Don’t care if you have all the other 5*’s pumped up to 550.  Just throw those aside and only use this till the game dies.


    Doesn’t that sound perfect??


    [Mod edit: removed insult to other forum members. -Dayv]

  • Partyof5
    Partyof5 Posts: 62 Match Maker
    Gambit has completely ruined PVP for me.  That's all I've been playing lately because PVE is the same over and over and the training is useless to me because I don't have every character rostered.

    I was shooting for 2000 in order to get a single 4* Nightcrawler cover.  Since about 1500 started seeing a lot of teams with either a 3* or 5* gambit.  Most with only black  power.  Now at 1850 that's all I see.  Gambit/Thing/Spider-gwen everywhere. I skip a dozen matches and it's still nothing but gambits.  My teams get wiped out in under 10 turns if I try going against them.

    I liked win based PVP beacuse at least guys like me who don't have any champed 4* could get a 4* cover and progress.  

    I'm done with everything in this game except for DDQ until Gambit is addressed. 

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