Regarding the many posts who state that Gambit is a sign of power creep, I think we should compare Gambit to the 3 characters who were released before him, and the 1 character released after him. Shall we?
Doctor Octopus (Classic) - a blue power that does almost nothing, a green power that's way too complicated, and a black power that's okay. Trash tier, may be worse than Banner.
Spider-Man (Peter Parker) - A fairly well built character that doesn't really shine on his own. Red hits hard but Spidey doesn't generate enough webs himself to really make the most of it, likewise his Green is good but not great unless you have a web generator like Miles or Gwen. His blue kind of works cross-purposes to his Red and Green, so is rarely used for a stun unless you absolutely need it. - I'd put him Mid-tier - he has some nice synergy with Miles and Gwen, but on his own he's just not top tier.
Daredevil (Matt Murdock) - A pretty solid, sustainable character. His green is a bit underpowered but has nice protection against being destroyed. His purple is solid and has nice synergy with his passive. His yellow is great when he's at low health. He's a bit risky to play (you spend a lot of time at half health,) but he's definitely fun. - I'd put him on the low end of the top tier - he has some nice overall qualities for a PVP climb and PVE Clears, but doesn't really excel enough to put him higher.
Thor (Gladiator) - I don't have him, but my impression is he hits really hard when you get enough AP for his powers. He's slow, though. Board-shake at half health is pretty neat, but since he doesn't regenerate that's only a bit of a nice bonus rather than anything game-changing. - At a guess I'd say he's on the low end of the top tier at best - he's not fast enough nor does he have any big deterrents to being attacked - the board shake is a bit of one but not enough.
Is there power creep? Sure - compare Spider-Man or Thor's red to Silver Surfer's and Black Widow's - I believe they're in general quite a bit better. The thing is, none of these four is even close to Gambit's power level - we have three solid characters who are on par with Black Bolt at best, and one who is somewhere around Banner.
aesthetocyst said: GrimSkald said: Regarding the many posts who state that Gambit is a sign of power creep, ... Is there power creep? Sure - compare Spider-Man or Thor's red to Silver Surfer's and Black Widow's - I believe they're in general quite a bit better. The thing is, none of these four is even close to Gambit's power level - we have three solid characters who are on par with Black Bolt at best, and one who is somewhere around Banner. Gosh, none of those characters have ridiculous AP manipulation tricks.
GrimSkald said: Regarding the many posts who state that Gambit is a sign of power creep, ... Is there power creep? Sure - compare Spider-Man or Thor's red to Silver Surfer's and Black Widow's - I believe they're in general quite a bit better. The thing is, none of these four is even close to Gambit's power level - we have three solid characters who are on par with Black Bolt at best, and one who is somewhere around Banner.
Regarding the many posts who state that Gambit is a sign of power creep, ... Is there power creep? Sure - compare Spider-Man or Thor's red to Silver Surfer's and Black Widow's - I believe they're in general quite a bit better. The thing is, none of these four is even close to Gambit's power level - we have three solid characters who are on par with Black Bolt at best, and one who is somewhere around Banner.
True, that.
But let's continue the "power creep" examination. Taking out the ridiculous AP manipulation tricks, compare Gambit Red to the others I mentioned - it's the same AP as Surfer and Spidey but unlike the other two, it does virtually no damage unless its condition is met. However, in the absence of it's condition it produces a small amount of AP and a small amount of board shake, the creates its own condition for its second cast. If its condition is met, which can be always done with two castings or by combining him with many other characters, it does excellent damage, a little board shake, and generates 4-6 (mostly random,) AP. Honestly, it's at least on par with those two (the conditional damage is more than the base damage for either, though Spidey can generate a lot more damage under the right circumstances,) probably at least slightly better.
In a vacuum, his red is a very good power, probably among the best. Combined with a charge tile generator, particularly Black Bolt (who is essentially free for the tiles,) I'd say it is the best red power out there. Add in the fact that he doesn't even need to match for it and it's utterly gross.
This is why we're saying Gambit is overpowered.
LifeofAgony said: You’re not making equal comparisons at all. There was no previous “meta” that could not be beaten by literally hundreds of different team combos. Sure, you wanted to chase 4* carol to have on your roster, but she is not unbeatable, and when unboosted is not even close to a major threat. It may have worked well offensively, but you’re not going into a match against carol thinking “by turn 3, it I haven’t got her stunned or dead, I’m in trouble”OML/PHX, Panthos, B.B./BW, any iteration of 5* meta you want to choose was never considered untouchable. You always had some level of a chance to win with many different teams.Gambit is a self starting battery, with a good health pool, who has an AP generating boardshake nuke (member how most board shake powers don’t actually generate AP), a power that can overwrite ANY tile type that also doubles as a nuke. Oh and the powers are also relatively cheap to boot.#NerfGambitAlready
So.... some of the comments that I read were
Gambit red is on par or only slightly better than other red powers. & Gambit is not op, he’s perfect & just shaking up the 5* tier.
My response to this would be
Any toon that self produces AP at a rapid rate unconditionally is OP. Don’t know how else to put that. Even more so when they have an above par damaging use for this freely given that AP.
For fun let’s compare Gambit to Phoenix. Her red does less damage and can be self mutilating given excessive strike tile conditions. Let’s make her green go away and put Gambits black in place of that. Now how does that work?? I have done this with 3* black only Gambattery. It is phenomenal.
Let’s put Gambit black in place of Black Widow’s black. Her red is approximately the same damage as his with two charge tiles out. Done that too with Gambattery. Oh my oh my, so much fun. Would they be OP I ask?? What is that you say? “They are too fast and should not make their own AP!” Wait a second? How are those examples any different than gambit himself is?
Black Widow would actually be the better example negating her red condition of 12+ enemy AP. She would not have Gambits board shake possibilities or even self feed red back after firing her power, but would still do the damage. Her purple would clear off cd’s strikes and what-have-you. So where would be the problem with just changing her black to be the same as Gambits??? If there are no objections of any validity, then maybe would could just make her the counter.
That would “shake up the 5* tier” wouldn’t it?
If you guys can’t understand how damaging this self feeding rapid AP generation is. Then I challenge you to get black widow and Phoenix Champed. Go play pve with a Black only Gambattery and then when you have had your fun.... step back for a minute and think about how much more fun it could have been had you not had to waste one slot on Gambattery and got to play oml in his place or bolt or whomever you wanted. Think about that for a minute please.
John Wayne74 said: So.... some of the comments that I read were Gambit red is on par or only slightly better than other red powers. & Gambit is not op, he’s perfect & just shaking up the 5* tier. My response to this would be Any toon that self produces AP at a rapid rate unconditionally is OP. Don’t know how else to put that. Even more so when they have an above par damaging use for this freely given that AP. For fun let’s compare Gambit to Phoenix. Her red does less damage and can be self mutilating given excessive strike tile conditions. Let’s make her green go away and put Gambits black in place of that. Now how does that work?? I have done this with 3* black only Gambattery. It is phenomenal. Let’s put Gambit black in place of Black Widow’s black. Her red is approximately the same damage as his with two charge tiles out. Done that too with Gambattery. Oh my oh my, so much fun. Would they be OP I ask?? What is that you say? “They are too fast and should not make their own AP!” Wait a second? How are those examples any different than gambit himself is? Black Widow would actually be the better example negating her red condition of 12+ enemy AP. She would not have Gambits board shake possibilities or even self feed red back after firing her power, but would still do the damage. Her purple would clear off cd’s strikes and what-have-you. So where would be the problem with just changing her black to be the same as Gambits??? If there are no objections of any validity, then maybe would could just make her the counter. That would “shake up the 5* tier” wouldn’t it? If you guys can’t understand how damaging this self feeding rapid AP generation is. Then I challenge you to get black widow and Phoenix Champed. Go play pve with a Black only Gambattery and then when you have had your fun.... step back for a minute and think about how much more fun it could have been had you not had to waste one slot on Gambattery and got to play oml in his place or bolt or whomever you wanted. Think about that for a minute please.
CharlieCroker said: If you don't care about Gambit why on earth are you repeatedly commenting on this thread?And as someone without Gambit, whilst he isn't untouchable, he is extremely tough to beat consistently (particularly when with Bolt or Surfer) as him matching purple/red (or those colours being charged) is a death sentence, and nearly always results in using multiple healthpacks even if you do win.Excluding release events where you see lots of loaners, I doubt I'm anywhere near 0.500 in fights vs Gambit. I'm pretty sure anyone using Gambit is 1.000 versus any team I could put out on defence with any combination of the 5*s I can/have fielded.
Milk Jugz said: Or how about Gambat, Phoenix, DD5? Take those powerful enemy attack tiles Phoenix makes and flip them into powerful friendly strike tiles with DD purple.....Yes, I have all three.... Devastating..... Don’t have DD, but sounds like fun. My point was more about how people would feel about this situation if others had this free gift of self generating AP. Honestly even BW would pale in comparison due to not gaining the AP from the tile destruction like Gambit himself does. But the point remains. It’s ok to them that Gambit has it... well because they have Gambit. So all is right in the world I suppose.
Milk Jugz said: Or how about Gambat, Phoenix, DD5? Take those powerful enemy attack tiles Phoenix makes and flip them into powerful friendly strike tiles with DD purple.....Yes, I have all three.... Devastating.....
Punisher5784 said: Wow.. 17.5k views.. 18 pages of comments.. yet Gambit remains the same
Jonny1Punch said: Monster slap in the face to ALL of us that this is being ignored and not even a single comment from a dev. This should have been addressed long ago.
Welcome Death said: Punisher5784 said: Wow.. 17.5k views.. 18 pages of comments.. yet Gambit remains the same And not one official comment on the matter.
To be fair, devs almost never comment on game balancing in advance of it happening. I'll also add that game balancing takes time - we haven't seen a quick nerf since... what, 3* IF? OML was the last nerf (unless you count the Kingpin change as a nerf - it sort of is but I suspect the devs think it's a buff,) and it took over a year. Now, OML was not broken in the way Gambit is - he was just used everywhere - but unless they're being unexpectedly agile I'm not expecting a change for this upcoming season. The season after is more likely.
Regardless, I wouldn't expect any comment until it's about to happen.
thedarkphoenix said: Phoenix has a built in anti spam, she puts out really strong attack titles if there are X amount of friendly tiles out. Gambit has no such limitations if he did he'd be right there alone with phoenix
Pongie said: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/69419/soul-gem-season-updates-12-14-17#latestI guess this is the end of the discussion