Please nerf 5* Gambit

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  • PenniesForEveryone
    PenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
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    Sandmaker said:
    People calling it a 5* buff are ridiculous... 2 ap I can use is way better than destroying 2 random AP the opponent might not use (or even have). It's like trying to claim She-hulk's Furious Charge is better than IM40's Recharge or Vulture's Circling Prey.

    Yes, the overall nerf was small. But I'd rather they make incremental nerfs than smash him to the ground like previous nerfs. See how the changes pan out, if it's still OP then feel free to start rioting for more nerfs. 
    In practice it will be much worse.  Turn 1 you match a color that you need, if no cascades you begin turn 2 with 1 AP in that color.  Meanwhile the enemy has 2 red, 2 purple, and 3 more of something else.  

    This is a HUGE defensive buff to what was already the best defensive character in the game.  It's meta-changing, which I think goes against their stated goals in changing him.  It's a match-3 game, where matching 3 grants 3 AP - that's a huge staple to the mechanics of play and Gambit reduces that by 66%.  So how will you be forced to fight Gambit now?  With characters that either generate a lot of AP and can overcome this defensive power (Gambit, Bolt, Thor <50% in 5* tier off the top of my head), or characters that can deal damage passively without AP (Strange, Bolt, DD <50%, maybe Panther).  Of these only Gambit himself could possibly generate enough AP to down the opposing Gambit before you eat at least 1 if not 2 sizable nukes.  And so the result will be while previously you saw the occasional Strange/Panther or DD/Thanos or even DD/Thor taking down Gambit teams, now you will pretty much only see Gambit being used to fight Gambit.
  • evade420
    evade420 Posts: 440 Mover and Shaker
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    Honestly I never had issue taking down gambit before using g4mora and DD. This may change things somewhat
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Every fight against Gambit take a +2 all ap boost. Gives you 14 ap to start the match or 7 turns before Gambit starts destroying the ap you're collecting.
  • Piro_plock
    Piro_plock Posts: 287 Mover and Shaker
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    Milk Jugz said:
    Every fight against Gambit take a +2 all ap boost. Gives you 14 ap to start the match or 7 turns before Gambit starts destroying the ap you're collecting.
    Cool, only 20HP per fight to even have a chance to beat Gambit without having one.
  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
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    aesthetocyst said:
    Sandmaker said:
    No it's not.....
    He's foolishly assuming gambits ap denial will work like shulk green. Hes in for disappointment. It wont hit 0s.
    Does She-Hulk green ever hit 0s?  I don't think any drain/destroy/steal AP from "random" color skill has ever targeted 0s.  They'll happily target a 1 AP pool when they can steal "up to 8" (here's looking at you, 67% of all Star-Lords), but unless it's a deterministic color (like target's strongest, or the color of the countdown, or whatever), I've never seen them go for 0 pools.

    With She-Hulk's green, when she's a featured character, I've always been a fan of firing her green twice in a row (at five covers), completely draining four AP pools.  Never saw it skip one unless the enemy started out with AP in less than four pools.

    And I don't expect Gambit to be any different.

    This will definitely screw up plans based on using a cheap stun against Gambit as quickly as possible.

    New Gambit strategy: prioritize cascade moves*, multimatch moves, and match 4s over single primary colors to increase AP diversity as early and often as you can.

    Secondary option: bring a +1 boost to all AP in every match against Gambit.  Those grow on trees, right?

    * From comments in this thread, I'm thinking that lots of players need to improve their skills in noticing cascades and prioritizing moves likely to generate cascades rather than simply accepting a single match 3 as a normal occurrence.

    I think that this change to black is not as big as what was needed, but it is a nerf... except when things go badly for the opponent.

    • If the AP destruction can miss, then it's not so bad.  But I don't believe in miracles.
    • Unfortunately, they still haven't dealt with the other big problems in 5* Gambit's design:
    • Unprecedented defensive intelligence by using only his two (top tier) actives only over all other R/P skills
    • A cheap red active that does (usually) huge damage generates at least 2 AP but usually 6 and sometimes even more due to cascades
    • The other 2/3 of his insane free AP.
    That said, I've used my unfinished Gambit with his black at 3 covers (in PvE only, with Gambit yellow increasing his skills) to receive 2 AP per turn instead of 3.  The difference between 2 AP per turn and 3 is real.  Did he need to deny enemy AP as well?  He should be increasing the cost of all ally skills instead of locking some out, if anything.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Piro_plock said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    Every fight against Gambit take a +2 all ap boost. Gives you 14 ap to start the match or 7 turns before Gambit starts destroying the ap you're collecting.
    Cool, only 20HP per fight to even have a chance to beat Gambit without having one.
    You get 5 boosts for 100 hp, so it's actually 40 hp per fight for +2..... Sorry for making it worse.....
  • Piro_plock
    Piro_plock Posts: 287 Mover and Shaker
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    Milk Jugz said:
    Piro_plock said:
    Milk Jugz said:
    Every fight against Gambit take a +2 all ap boost. Gives you 14 ap to start the match or 7 turns before Gambit starts destroying the ap you're collecting.
    Cool, only 20HP per fight to even have a chance to beat Gambit without having one.
    You get 5 boosts for 100 hp, so it's actually 40 hp per fight for +2..... Sorry for making it worse.....
    +1 all AP should be enough to get the same effect.
  • Tee
    Tee Posts: 231 Tile Toppler
    edited December 2017
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    Rest in piece 3* Gambit. No more easy story wins for my Blade/Strange/Gambt team.

    5* is another story.
  • Ironpastor75
    Ironpastor75 Posts: 3 Just Dropped In
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    I have suffer in the past, firstable, OML and Jean Grey, then Bolt and Strange and then Phantos and I have never complain. But now, after all this time that I have keeping a lot commad points and a bunch of legendary tokens I finally have my Daredevil my Gambit and a low level Bolt at least with 5 black covers and after more then 1100 days in this game I am in the top of the food chain.
    So please those who hasn't have the Gambit don't complain and live with it.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,216 Chairperson of the Boards
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    After seeing Archangel in game, does anyone still want to make the "power creep" argument to defend Gambit?
  • John Wayne74
    John Wayne74 Posts: 71 Match Maker
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    Do you guys remember that game we use to play?  I think it was called Marvel Puzzle Quest.  That was a fun game.  Lately I’ve been playing a little Gambit Puzzle Quest.  It’s so similar in nature.  But it is solely playing against this Gambit fellow.  Not near as much fun as it’s predecessor, which had many various opponents and a much broader selection of usable characters.  But times, they do change I suppose.  Be careful out there all you Gambitlenos.  It’s a Gambit eat Gambit world we live in.
  • Pants1000
    Pants1000 Posts: 484 Mover and Shaker
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    I don’t think they nerfed 5* Gambit enough, but I will say I fought a few Gambit teams in Earth’s Mightiest and found him easier.  I used OML/Peggy/Carol, and Peggy slowed him down enough to make him beatable.  That strategy won’t work so well when Peggy isn’t boosted, but it worked there.

    I also think the arguments based on each player making a single match 3 per turn are silly.  If you’re only making a single match 3 per turn you’re going to struggle against a lot of teams, not just Gambit.  If you get a double, match 4, or small cascade you’re getting 6-8 AP per turn, and if you get a match 5 or big cascade you’re getting 10+.

    That said, I do think he should be nerfed more.  He’s still too much better than the rest of the 5’s.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    First step should have been to reduce AP gain to +2 +2.
    Doing that while ALSO giving him AP destruction isn't a nerf.
    Just stating the obvious here.
    Clearly the point is making people chase him while he's still in Latest, then nerfing him to the ground once he moves into classics.
  • alphabeta
    alphabeta Posts: 469 Mover and Shaker
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    John Wayne74 said:
    Do you guys remember that game we use to play?  I think it was called Marvel Puzzle Quest.  
    Not really it was called Thanos Puzzle Quest and before that OML Puzzle Quest

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