Please nerf 5* Gambit

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  • GibbletsGrabber
    GibbletsGrabber Posts: 25 Just Dropped In
    Gambit is killing PVP with boredom. 

    If in 5* opponents group it’s all you get. If you have him you use him if you don’t you try and fight him. 

    Every PvP, you use same 2 along side compulsory 3*. 

    What are 4* really for? You champ them to have them boosted once every 3 months. Then you don’t use them cause they can’t do anything against gambit. 

    Btw, the fact this thread is still going proves that nerf is really a boost
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2017
    Well, right after the buff was announced, there was half a day of communication and then it went back to radio silence.  The endless spending (cough 10 and 20 stark buy clubs on digital-day cough), will keep gambit as is until the end of his latest run.
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,699 Chairperson of the Boards
    madsalad said:
    Gambit is still OP after nerf. He still has a net gain of 6 AP a turn (2P, 2R, drain 2 from opponent).  The devs just shifted things around a little. Sure, he is slower, but now so am I thanks to drain.  That is a zero sum there. 

    Gambit is the most derisive character created. Even Thanos, as good as he is, could be dealt with. Gambit wrecks teams on both offense and defense.

    He has no drawback.

    3* Gambit is actually built more in line with what 5* should be in terms balancing. If 5* Gambit took 5 black to generate 3P and 3R, and did team/backlash damage, I would be OK with that.

    Auto generating any amount of AP is bad. The entire games is based around AP gen.

    I agree on all points.  It think it was a nerf, but it did not substantively fix the broken mechanic.  He's still horribly OP and is at a huge advantage both offensively and defensively.

    I believe if they gave him the 3* Black (possibly altering it a little to make it more interesting, maybe adding an interesting passive to replace the damage?  But no AP gen or destruction, that just plain sucks,) he would still be a top tier character but probably not completely, utterly broken.

  • GreenMachine
    GreenMachine Posts: 52 Match Maker
    Here is an alternative to completely wrecking 5* Gambit:

    Make Red and Purple cost a few more AP.

    That will slow him down. They will be over costed moves, but he self-feeds. And no worries because no one else can use that AP.

    Btw, i like Gambit as-is but it's a compromise.
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
    Making the AP gen conditional is a much better compromise I think.  And the AP drain is completely unnecessary.
  • moss04
    moss04 Posts: 147 Tile Toppler
    The two best ideas I've seen to fix him while leaving him near or at the top are:

    1) Keep the 2 purp 2 red AP gen at rank 5 black, but get rid of the AP drain and increase his red cost to either 8 or 9 AP.

    2) Change his black to active power like the 3 star that costs 5 and generates purp and red charge tiles, but increase the max number of charge tiles to 4, and replace the team self damage with a passive component that drains AP from the enemy at a certain threshold of charged tiles on the board.
  • WelcomeDeath
    WelcomeDeath Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker
    moss04 said:
    The two best ideas I've seen to fix him while leaving him near or at the top are:

    1) Keep the 2 purp 2 red AP gen at rank 5 black, but get rid of the AP drain and increase his red cost to either 8 or 9 AP.

    2) Change his black to active power like the 3 star that costs 5 and generates purp and red charge tiles, but increase the max number of charge tiles to 4, and replace the team self damage with a passive component that drains AP from the enemy at a certain threshold of charged tiles on the board.
    His red is fine now.  If you're running with Bolt you'll eat some damage but I'm ok with that.  His purple is much much slower, too. Keep the nerf as is but get rid of the AP denial.  Of course the issue there is at 5 covers he'd have to so something else, which is where I think the denial came in.  So maybe at 5 covers have him make like 1 green or 1 yellow or something?  Like vulture, makes a bunch of blue and green and a marginal amount of red.  
  • mr_X
    mr_X Posts: 375 Mover and Shaker
    Finished Gambit on the day he was nerfbuffed. To start with it was nice as I had been getting pummeled without him. Now I have no choice but to use him as I know what will happen otherwise and it's not a very fun ingame experience believe me.

    Kinda strange situation now my weakest 5*  ( I have 15 including him champed) now my strongest character. The fact I have to go three pages into my roster to add him to my team is a constant reminder of this
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,699 Chairperson of the Boards

    I got my last cover from a duplicate request from CS yesterday, and did a mildly late climb with Gambit today.  Now that I have him, I changed my mind - clearly he's just very powerful and not OP at all.

    Kidding.  I probably used half the Health Packs I would have used otherwise, maybe even less.  I destroyed most other teams.  Now, it doesn't hurt that I have Hawkeye who has great synergy with both Gambit and SW - though it leaves half the colors unused you generate a lot of red and blue from a number of sources.  Sure, I don't expect to dominate nearly as much next time, but still.  He's broken.  I feel fairly confident they'll nerf him again, maybe even next season, and I fully intend to enjoy his brokenness while I have him.

    Hopefully they won't over-nerf him, but their track record has actually been pretty good lately.

  • Jonny1Punch
    Jonny1Punch Posts: 440 Mover and Shaker
    This was the official reasoning behind the OML nerf -

    “Old Man Logan, as one of our first 5-stars and one of our first characters with multiple sets of powers, is stronger and significantly more useful than most other options for one’s team, even when he’s at low covers. Over 10% of all battles won include an Old Man Logan on the player’s team. This is higher than the win or play rate of any other character in the game even when those characters are Powered-Up. We believe that his ubiquity and power is reducing options for team composition - Old Man Logan is significantly better even than other 5-stars at low covers, and he’s pushing out otherwise viable 4-star and 5-star options because he warrants a permanent place on the team.”

    I don’t feel this was even close to accurate for OML.... however this logic is EXACTLY why gambit needs a few heavy swings of the nerf bat asap.
  • elko90
    elko90 Posts: 68 Match Maker
    Just remove his drain and thats about it because to start dealing any damage he needs 14 red and th with no red on the board thats 7 turns he is a lot slower now but still the best 5* and there must be a meta so leave everything as is, remove only the drain 
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,301 Chairperson of the Boards
    One thing that I have found just using 5* Gambit over the past week and champing him yesterday is that while he is very powerful, he doesn't have a big health pool and he is one of the slowest healers in the game.  It takes him almost 3 hours to heal 5000 damage  and that is with VIP bonus rate.  I can see that they have made him a health pack sponge by doing this.  I expect that quite a few players that use him regularly go through the health packs because even with as good as he is, he still takes damage, especially for me since he is my only 5* champ at the moment.  I am in the camp that I believe that his nerf was actually a stealth buff because AP destruction is even more powerful than just getting more of you own AP because AP destruction is the best defensive power available in the game imo.  That being said, I have been beat by other one 5* teams, many using DD in PvP already so while he is powerful, he certainly is still beatable. 

    In high stakes, my team was Gambit/Blade/Riri  and one of the opponent's teams was DD/Blade/Gamora.  The other team was running a DD/Blade/? but I know the third wasn't Gamora, just can't remember who.  I also lost to a 5* Thanos/Blade/Riri team as well.   

    I understand though that once you pair two 5* together, a combo of Gambit and Black Bolt looks nearly unstoppable, hence why I intend to try and get my 8 cover BB to 13 as quick as I can.  
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,301 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2018
    elko90 said:
    Just remove his drain and thats about it because to start dealing any damage he needs 14 red and th with no red on the board thats 7 turns he is a lot slower now but still the best 5* and there must be a meta so leave everything as is, remove only the drain 
    Instead of removing the drain, I would reduce it to 1 AP from 2 and see how he plays from there.  It can always be further reduced if he seems too powerful even at 1 AP drain.  It is a difficult balancing act because completely removing the AP drain I think may make him worse substantially less effective than what the devs intended. Do keep in mind that Gambit was the most requested character by the player base since this game has begun and I believe the devs intentionally chose to make its most powerful, for now.

    One other option could be to really use his penchant for gambling as a power.  Completely remove the current AP destruction/creation and give his black power an ability to randomly create 0-3 purple and 0-3 red AP each turn.  This would give you each turn, a 25% chance to earn 0, 1, 2, or 3 AP per turn of each color, averaging out about 1.5 AP of each color per turn but due to randomness, it could be significantly higher if lucky or lower if you are unlucky.  I would probably attach another small passive ability to the black to compensate somewhat for the randomness such in any turn in which he generates less than 3 total AP, you destroy 4 random enemy AP (as a way of passing on his bad luck to the opponent).  That way he is always doing something good for you each round but not both powers at the same time like he is now.  Not sure if they would be able to code a power like this though and it would be much more complex than most powers.
  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    edited January 2018
    One of the biggest problems for me is his purple which counters virtually anything other 5* characters can throw at him.  Even with Gambit 'only' generating 2ap per turn, he can still fire this every 5/6 turns.

    There are some decent/fun powers out there, such as Daredevil healing, Thor yellow, Hawkeye countdowns and Panther black and all of them are made next to useless by Gambit purple.  

    The best way to prevent this would just be to get rid of the free ap generation.  If the devs aren't willing to do this, perhaps they should consider removing the overwriting aspect of purple.  
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
    The ap drain was an unneeded buff.  Remove it completely, and his black still needs to be significantly altered.
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,276 Chairperson of the Boards
    He doesnt need to generate or drain AP, his other two powers are already crazy good enough as they are. Its insanity to have his black as it is now.
  • evade420
    evade420 Posts: 440 Mover and Shaker
    Gambit I just fine the way he is please and thank you , I don't think that nerfing a character is ever the right answer. 
    And Gambit can be taken down just fine by pathos or DD never had a problem before. Gambolt is deadly tho

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