Please nerf 5* Gambit

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Comments

  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    thedarkphoenix said:
    Gambit really isn't the problem, a gambit team without blackbolt or anyone that can create charged tiles isn't really tough nor scary. Getting hit for  15k  possibly every 3 turn as opposed to 6 turns is a huge difference. With BB on the team, As soon as he gets 7 red its big damage and there is no way to stop having charges tiles out at turn 2.


    So his "problem" is he just has AMAZING synergy with black bolt who also is really good and passively does something.


    Together there is no way around it being the best duo you can literally plug anyone into that 3rd spot and be ok. ( which some might argue is a good thing)


    So nerfing gambit (again) is a bit unfair as he just so happens to work really well with another character. nerfing synergy is never a good idea to me unless it literally is unstoppable/gaming ending or a team wipe


    Once they add a 5 that passively deals/removes with charge tiles (and possibly gets a buff from dealing with it) gambit will be all but useless (well not really) as he'd  probably just go to a 5/3/5 build and be more support than a nuker.


    The thing is everyone that has Gambit runs him.  Period.  To say he is only broken with Bolt is just plain wrong.

    I've seen rosters with multiple characters in the 500's run a 45x Gambit over all them.  And there's a reason for that - he's just too strong.  With Bolt he is of course amazing, but the likes of HE, SS, Thor & OML (amongst others) compliment him extremely well too.

    Perhaps with the rebalance Gambit is, without Bolt, more beatable.  I wouldn't know, now I have my own Gambit (albeit 10-15 levels behind other 5* champs), I'm almost obliged to run him once past a certain point threshold otherwise I'll both struggle on offense and be decimated on defense.
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2018
    I just had a crazy thought
    What if they flipped how red does damage

    Red with no charged tiles = big damage
    Red with charged tiles = small damage and collect ap for charged tiles destroyed

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2018
    The fix for gambit now is what is has ALWAYS been: lower the damage on his red.  

    Gambit is pretty hard to counter because he passively generates his own ap and destroys enemy ap.  That's a nasty combo.  But the problem is that in addition to doing that, he also has a red that does close to best-in-tier efficient damage (assuming you have charged tiles on the board).  

    Just take away his nuke (cut the damage to maybe 3k per charged tile up to a max of 3 but leave it generating 2 per cast, which both slows him down on his own and rewards synergy.  Move the rest of his red damage over to purple).  This would force gambit teams to rely on cd-heavy offense from his purple, or from teammates (who cant use red or purple ap).  Problem solved.  Gambit is a very powerful support character, but not, by himself, a crushingly dominant force.
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
    The ap gen is an issue.
    The ap drain is an issue.
    The board shaking nuke that generates ap is an issue.

    Whats so hard about figuring out this is borked beyond belief?
  • Sabintribal
    Sabintribal Posts: 13 Just Dropped In
    I happen to really like Gambit's play, it's fun for once.  How about we just say screw vs in general, because it hasn't been fun to play in 1 year +.  How about a flat out 5 star ban in vs.
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    CharlieCroker said:
    thedarkphoenix said:
    Gambit really isn't the problem, a gambit team without blackbolt or anyone that can create charged tiles isn't really tough nor scary. Getting hit for  15k  possibly every 3 turn as opposed to 6 turns is a huge difference. With BB on the team, As soon as he gets 7 red its big damage and there is no way to stop having charges tiles out at turn 2.


    So his "problem" is he just has AMAZING synergy with black bolt who also is really good and passively does something.


    Together there is no way around it being the best duo you can literally plug anyone into that 3rd spot and be ok. ( which some might argue is a good thing)


    So nerfing gambit (again) is a bit unfair as he just so happens to work really well with another character. nerfing synergy is never a good idea to me unless it literally is unstoppable/gaming ending or a team wipe


    Once they add a 5 that passively deals/removes with charge tiles (and possibly gets a buff from dealing with it) gambit will be all but useless (well not really) as he'd  probably just go to a 5/3/5 build and be more support than a nuker.


    The thing is everyone that has Gambit runs him.  Period.  To say he is only broken with Bolt is just plain wrong.

    I've seen rosters with multiple characters in the 500's run a 45x Gambit over all them.  And there's a reason for that - he's just too strong.  With Bolt he is of course amazing, but the likes of HE, SS, Thor & OML (amongst others) compliment him extremely well too.

    Perhaps with the rebalance Gambit is, without Bolt, more beatable.  I wouldn't know, now I have my own Gambit (albeit 10-15 levels behind other 5* champs), I'm almost obliged to run him once past a certain point threshold otherwise I'll both struggle on offense and be decimated on defense.
    huktonfonix said:
    thedarkphoenix said:
    Gambit really isn't the problem, a gambit team without blackbolt or anyone that can create charged tiles isn't really tough nor scary. Getting hit for  15k  possibly every 3 turn as opposed to 6 turns is a huge difference. With BB on the team, As soon as he gets 7 red its big damage and there is no way to stop having charges tiles out at turn 2.


    So his "problem" is he just has AMAZING synergy with black bolt who also is really good and passively does something.


    Together there is no way around it being the best duo you can literally plug anyone into that 3rd spot and be ok. ( which some might argue is a good thing)


    So nerfing gambit (again) is a bit unfair as he just so happens to work really well with another character. nerfing synergy is never a good idea to me unless it literally is unstoppable/gaming ending or a team wipe


    Once they add a 5 that passively deals/removes with charge tiles (and possibly gets a buff from dealing with it) gambit will be all but useless (well not really) as he'd  probably just go to a 5/3/5 build and be more support than a nuker.


    This is just false.  As others have pointed out, Gambit works just great with plenty of other characters.  I rarely run him with Black Bolt, as that is just giving free charged tiles to the opponent.  Most players LOVE using Gambit + X versus Gambit BB, as the enemy Black Bolt is like a free 4th character for your own team.

    In the Thanos pvp ending today, a fairly well-known player ran Gambit + Bagman most of the event.  He also floated unshielded over 1000 points most of the event with that team, and finished T5 in CL9 with about 1600 points.

    I'd take a level 450 Gambit and literally any other character on my roster over any pair of non-Gambit 450 5*s.
    I don’t see how this is any different from any other “must haves” for meta previously. But that’s just me...

    now if people feel feel like he’s as strong as 4Thor and reworked xforce and oml was  at the time they were “must haves” then I can see the line of thinking.

    but if you felt any of those characters were ok or “not that bad” and gambit is....that just doesn’t add up to me
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor

    Sabintribal said:
    I happen to really like Gambit's play, it's fun for once.  How about we just say screw vs in general, because it hasn't been fun to play in 1 year +.  How about a flat out 5 star ban in vs.
    There should be 5 required pvp events 
  • huktonfonix
    huktonfonix Posts: 214 Tile Toppler
    27 pages of discussion on what the real Gambit problem is and how to tweak him. As LifeofAgony said, every one of his abilities is a problem.

    It’s like they gave us a house with a flooded first floor and a burning roof. We debate for two months which is the problem and proposing increasingly outlandish fixes. Maybe we should build another house next door with water cannons on top!

    After two months they release a statement: “We’ve heard your complaints about the house and are aware of the problems. Our goal in building this house was to make it unique and special, and we feel that the burning roof accomplishes that goal. However, data shows the flooding on the first floor is dangerous.  To that end we’ve siphoned out 33% of the water and introduced cracks in the foundation to allow additional excess water to drain. You’re welcome.”

    A month later we’re still debating whether we need to fix the burning roof, the flooded first floor, or the newly-crumbling foundation.

    We need to bulldoze the house and start over.
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,645 Chairperson of the Boards
    thedarkphoenix said:
    I don’t see how this is any different from any other “must haves” for meta previously. But that’s just me...

    now if people feel feel like he’s as strong as 4Thor and reworked xforce and oml was  at the time they were “must haves” then I can see the line of thinking.

    but if you felt any of those characters were ok or “not that bad” and gambit is....that just doesn’t add up to me

    That's actually a really hard comparison since the game has changed so much since those two characters - GT and XForce were, at the time, two out of only 4 4*s.  The weekly boosted characters were just not a thing then and as a result, people always fielded the same characters in PVP.  It was a very different game then, IMHO the game is much more fun and interesting now, but still it makes it difficult to compare things directly.

    That being said, I do think that GT and XForce were way overpowered compared to the remaining characters (and the characters they've introduced since,) and I think that Gambit is similarly out of scale.  The fact that both of them were probably nerfed too hard is immaterial. 

  • Crnch73
    Crnch73 Posts: 504 Critical Contributor
    edited January 2018
    huktonfonix said:
    27 pages of discussion on what the real Gambit problem is and how to tweak him. As LifeofAgony said, every one of his abilities is a problem.

    It’s like they gave us a house with a flooded first floor and a burning roof. We debate for two months which is the problem and proposing increasingly outlandish fixes. Maybe we should build another house next door with water cannons on top!

    After two months they release a statement: “We’ve heard your complaints about the house and are aware of the problems. Our goal in building this house was to make it unique and special, and we feel that the burning roof accomplishes that goal. However, data shows the flooding on the first floor is dangerous.  To that end we’ve siphoned out 33% of the water and introduced cracks in the foundation to allow additional excess water to drain. You’re welcome.”

    A month later we’re still debating whether we need to fix the burning roof, the flooded first floor, or the newly-crumbling foundation.

    We need to bulldoze the house and start over.
    In reality... it’s like people who live in sucky houses complaining about the rich people who have nice houses. The answer would be to make more houses better, not destroy the nicest house just because it was making you feel bad. 

    “Why is that house so much better than this house?!” It just is. Let’s make more nice houses just like it, rather than destroy what’s already there 
  • Crnch73
    Crnch73 Posts: 504 Critical Contributor
    I didn’t say buff everyone. And I’m ok with rebalancing gambit as well. But most people aren’t saying a gentle rebalance, they want a nerf. 

    Take away his AP gen, then you hafta make something do more damage

    make his red less powerful or not gather AP, then purple needs to be deadlier. 

    No matter what, there will always be people saying the most powerful character of any tier is just not fun to play against. If the majority of people on this forum weren’t playing with 5s, I bet C4rol would be a hot button topic. Someone’s gotta be the best character in the 5s, he just needs some tweaks but it sounds like people want him dead. 

    I liked the idea of saying he could do damage if there were less than X charged tiles on the board, and then create Y amount of charged tiles. Maybe Divide X by however many charged tiles are on the board. Maybe make it cost more AP, remove the AP destruction. But then purple would have to make more tiles or be worth more damage. There’s no easy answer, but most sound irrational. Come up with a good change other than “eliminate all his powers”


  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    Remove his ap generation.
    Remove his ap drain.
    Remove the stipulation on allies powers.
    Make black generate X charged tiles in his colors.
    Change nothing else.
    Problem solved.
  • Basepuzzler
    Basepuzzler Posts: 180 Tile Toppler
    He needs the Thor/DD treatment.  Make his AP gen/destruction only active when he's below 50% health.  Problem solved.

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