Please nerf 5* Gambit

thedarkphoenix

If rogue was a 5 she would fight gambit and lots of teams VERY well, she's probably one of the best designed characters to date. 

Once a character comes along (hopefully a 5) that passively gets rid or absorbs charged titles gambits useful will def take a hit.

-A Character that punishes people for matching or destroying charged tiles
-A Character that punishes people for having more than X amount of AP
-A Character that punishes people for getting ap without match generation.(counting tile destruction)

GrimSkald

broll said:

My usable roster was knocked over a mugged by an army of Gambits a few weeks ago.  This is the return of a usable roster....  If you can't beat em join em right?

This.  Welcome back to the 5* tier.  And that's the problem.

entrailbucket said:

Show me one example from this game's history of a dominant character getting a counter that actually impacts the metagame.  We're all still waiting on that Sentry/Hood counter.  I'm not saying it's not possible for them to design an elegant, non-overpowered counter character, but if it hasn't happened once in 4+ years...

While I'm at it, I feel like the word "nerf" is not being understood.  Every change to a character is either a buff or a nerf.  Buff means "make better," nerf means "make worse." Asking for a nerf does not mean "make this guy totally useless," it means "make this guy worse."

I completely agree with the first part.  Counters are interesting and make the game better in general, I think, but they don't change the meta.  Let alone the time it takes to cover them (and that's non-trivial unless you're willing to spend a ton of money,) unless they're top tier characters themselves,  you're just plain not going to play them.  Even if they're really good, it still doesn't change that much.  One could argue Dr. Strange is a soft-counter to Gambit (he certainly is to Hawkeye,) but you don't see a lot of Strange teams out there -- you see some, but not a lot, and most of them have their own Gambit.

Regarding the second part, their history with nerfs has not been great.  Sentry literally went from the top of the 3* bracket to the bottom.  X-Force and Goddess Thor were also sent down to low tier.  They've been doing better lately, and the incremental change to Gambit is a good sign that they won't overdo it.  Still, I'll forgive anyone who expects the devs to be heavy handed in any nerf.

Honestly, if they leave his red and purple alone I suspect he'll be top tier no matter what they did with his black (unless his black was something like "lose 1 red and purple a turn.")  I think his purple is pretty expensive without his AP gain (my Gambit had like 1 black for one PVE,) but it's still incredibly versatile so that's probably fine.  That may mean that his red may need a nerf too, but I'm not 100% convinced of that...

tiomono

My thought on him is just make his purple and red more random.

 His purple could still overwrite specials but it will not prioritise them. 

Same with red. It still creates 2 charged tiles but will not prioritise popping those first but still could. So that his damage on red is a bit less reliable but the more the board is flooded with charged tiles the more dangerous he is.

broll

tiomono said:

My thought on him is just make his purple and red more random.

 His purple could still overwrite specials but it will not prioritise them. 

Same with red. It still creates 2 charged tiles but will not prioritise popping those first but still could. So that his damage on red is a bit less reliable but the more the board is flooded with charged tiles the more dangerous he is.

Honestly what I'd like to see is this:
Red & purple - unchanged
Black - No longer passive, cost 5 Black AP like 3*.  It still grants Red & Purple AP and destroys from the enemy, but at level 5 have it generate / destroy 5 of each at the cost of 5 black.  I would also take away the restriction to other characters firing Red and Purple.

This would likely reduce him to more of a battery, but battery characters can be top tier (IM40, Vulture, Switch) and there aren't a lot of 5* batteries and other than switch I don't think there are any batteries for purple.

John Wayne74

Bowgentle said:

John Wayne74 said:

Did not read this entire thread, so I apologize if someone already thought that up.

Nobody brought that up because it's not a very good idea.

In one fell swoop you'd nerf half of the characters in the game, including Bolt, DD, BSSM, Spidey, Strange, Thor, Thanos, Spidey, Panther, BW, Phoenix, Carol, Medusa, Blade, Rulk... you get the idea.

Maybe easier to just nerf the one character who needs it.

Obviously either you act before thought or you just missed the point.  It’s a boost.  Can’t be used but on offense and it can only last for a predermined set of turns at the start of the match.  In my example, at best 6 turns.  So how is that a nerf to Thanos.  If you are already beating people in 6 turns....  you don’t need that boost, do you?  And that applies for most of the other characters you mentioned as well.   But yes it would effect Strange and Bolt as well as the cheat code or Thor/DD @ half health, for six whole turns.  Oh Lordy have mercy!!  That’s not really a nerf to the entire game.  Would just be another offensive only tool.  But hey, what do I know?

ViralCore

Robbie Reye's Green ability Hell Ride, is exactly how Gambit's black should behave. This would be the perfect rebalance.

bluewolf

There are so many good ideas on this thread. What would be awesome at this point is some kind of developer acknowledgement of whether they consider Gambit an issue or not.

FWIW, Gambit has made me freeze my roster progress and not champ multiple 5*s because I still don’t have him fully covered.  I am delaying entering GamMR for as long as possible.

Edit:  I realize it is silly to expect official comment like “We are looking into Gambit” while he is in Latest and a spending draw. OK everyone, resume shouting into the void.

v_ironman

1210 days playing, from my point of view, nothing was as bad for the game as gambit for both players with him or without him, since I have been playing.
I tried to hoard him , but I opened like 100 LT with no 5* in a row.
I had spent some money and currently VIP, I am canceling my VIP and not spending a single dolar until Gambit is nerfed for real, already told the developers opening a request.
We should all open a request asking for a Nerf  or cancelling spending money

LifeofAgony

You must’ve missed that whole digital day sale where a swath of players decided to spend absurd sums of cash on the game, including people in this thread stumping for the nerf.

Its why most of us agree nothing will happen until he’s out of latest packs as it allows the money to keep rolling in.

Once gambit is in classic, no one will be able to chase him with any chance of real success.  Right now anyone without the game-breaker can still reasonably feel they have a chance to catch up and still have a playable pvp experience.  Once that window closes and you find yourself outside the special club, engagement will chasm between the 2 groups.

sinnerjfl

People have know since a week from his release that he's totally broken, that argument wont fly. People that spent absurd amounts of money did so because they knew that Gambit would dominate the game for a while.

Too bad if you did so but he's essentially destroying a whole mode of gameplay and he needs to be fixed.

PenniesForEveryone

sinnerjfl said:

People have know since a week from his release that he's totally broken, that argument wont fly. People that spent absurd amounts of money did so because they knew that Gambit would dominate the game for a while.

Too bad if you did so but he's essentially destroying a whole mode of gameplay and he needs to be fixed.

I spent a lot of money to have a pretty high level Gambit, but would still like to see him nerfed.  I've got a whole roster of other 5*s and some max champed 4*s that I would love to see get more play.

entrailbucket

The only bad roster-building strategy in the history of this game is to pick one guy who's the best right now and go all-in on him.  Whichever guy is the best right now is 100% going to either get obsoleted or nerfed, and then you'll have no backup plan.  If players haven't learned this lesson after the same thing happened 5-10 times before, then they deserve to be screwed over by a catastrophic nerf.

I will add to Aes's list of victims: XFW, 4Thor, OML, Sentry, 3* Magneto, 3* Spiderman, Ragnarok, 2* Thorverine.  Every single one of them got nerfed into oblivion and for everyone but OML the only compensation was some HP and Iso.  Most of the higher level players were aware that something was going to happen to these guys eventually and had already started planning for what to do post-nerf.  The ones who didn't have a plan...those guys mostly quit the game.

GrimSkald

entrailbucket said:

The only bad roster-building strategy in the history of this game is to pick one guy who's the best right now and go all-in on him.  Whichever guy is the best right now is 100% going to either get obsoleted or nerfed, and then you'll have no backup plan.  If players haven't learned this lesson after the same thing happened 5-10 times before, then they deserve to be screwed over by a catastrophic nerf.

I will add to Aes's list of victims: XFW, 4Thor, OML, Sentry, 3* Magneto, 3* Spiderman, Ragnarok, 2* Thorverine.  Every single one of them got nerfed into oblivion and for everyone but OML the only compensation was some HP and Iso.  Most of the higher level players were aware that something was going to happen to these guys eventually and had already started planning for what to do post-nerf.  The ones who didn't have a plan...those guys mostly quit the game.

I agree with most of what you said, but I'll pick one nit - I don't think all those characters were nerfed into oblivion.  In particular, Magneto was turned from a character who was incredibly exploitive of things they didn't think about into a solid 3* character.  X-Force and GT went from beyond the top tier to, at least at the time, lower middle tier, I think, but they were still usable. I used X-Force for a while after his nerf, in particular - his black was still very effective, just not the "end the match" god-blow it was before.

OML?  I dunno, I literally finished my OML on the day of his nerf (a yellow from the daily rewards finished him.)  I still use him, even outside of Thanos-bombing seeds.  My impression is that his healing was dealt a serious blow, but his post-claws yellow as actively improved since it's cheaper.

entrailbucket

I'm not sure how the amount of money spent on a character affects anything.  It's not like they're going to refund any of that money if they change him.  There are certainly a few people that spent a lot of money on him, and they'll probably be mad, but losing them won't affect the bottom line much.  (And for what it's worth, I don't think anyone will really quit anyway.  Search the forum for I-quit threads and see how many of those guys are still playing, and still paying.)

simoncklee

I've got an alternative solution, one that I'm sure would make everyone happy:

5* (6*?) AUNT MAY (May Parker)

A totally well-thought out and balanced counter to Gambit. Oh yes:

Withering Stare (passive): "You've been smoking behind the bike shed again, haven't you?" Aunt May wasn't born yesterday you know! All friendly and enemy countdown and repeater tiles get stuck at one unless Aunt May is stunned, sent airborne or downed.

Righteous Indignation: "In my day, we EARNED our keep." Aunt May puts her foot down on all the tomfoolery. Creates a countdown tile which blocks all enemy passive abilities while it remains on the board.

They Don't Come Any Tougher: That Aunt May is a stubborn one! Creates (X) protect tile(s) if less than (Y) exist. (Passive): increase the strength of (X) protect tile(s) by (Z) each time Aunt May takes damage.

----
PS if she is to be the first 6*, it's totally Sally Field over Marisa Tomei.

smkspy

Ugh, a Gambit nerf is my biggest fear, but I know it's eventual. Don't even have him champed, am currently champingy five in Thor.

But luck would have it trying for some Archangels, end up with 14th and 15th Gambit covers too.

Now I'm in the position to have two champed fives, but gambit will get whacked sooner rather than later. Then PVP will be wrecked for the foreseeable future.

Jexman

my 5Gambit is 1-1-5, is that the kind of build that leads to calls to nerf him? I'm asking to decide if I should level him at this point.

Avalanche Kincaid

It's hilarious how many 1 or 2 champed 5* rosters include gambit.  The problem with that is if you don't have bolt as your second you are easy pickings for anyone that has a gambit.  I would actually like to see a nerf to gambit just to see the explosion that will occur on the forums.  On a side note, did I just read someone pull 100 LT without a single 5*?  Sorry, but that's not possible, system is built to give out a predetermined 15%. 

CharlieCroker

Avalanche Kincaid said:

It's hilarious how many 1 or 2 champed 5* rosters include gambit.  The problem with that is if you don't have bolt as your second you are easy pickings for anyone that has a gambit.  I would actually like to see a nerf to gambit just to see the explosion that will occur on the forums.  On a side note, did I just read someone pull 100 LT without a single 5*?  Sorry, but that's not possible, system is built to give out a predetermined 15%. 

Chances are low but it's statistically totally possible.  The predetermined 15% would apply assuming infinite (or at least a ridiculously huge number) of pulls.  Otherwise you could make the same argument for an 0/8 run as an 0/100 run.

Sm0keyJ0e

The bottom line with this dude is that if you want to play PVP even semi-competitively you have to use him. Sure, I still see Panthos teams clearing grills on hops and weird combos when people are climbing, but to seriously float or climb for any length of time, you have to have Gambit. That is what is broken about him philosophically speaking (the design flaws have been discussed ad nauseam). I, along with many others here advocating for a more significant nerf, have an entire stable of other toons we would like to use but simply cannot.

And I disagree with the notion you have to partner Gambit with Bolt. I actually don't like using this combo and target others who do. I'll take a race to get 7 red before the opponent any time.