Please nerf 5* Gambit

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  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,824 Chairperson of the Boards
    Avalanche Kincaid said:
    It's hilarious how many 1 or 2 champed 5* rosters include gambit.  The problem with that is if you don't have bolt as your second you are easy pickings for anyone that has a gambit.  I would actually like to see a nerf to gambit just to see the explosion that will occur on the forums.  On a side note, did I just read someone pull 100 LT without a single 5*?  Sorry, but that's not possible, system is built to give out a predetermined 15%. 
    This is OT as heck, but after Gambit entered Latest, I had a 0/48 run.  I only have 10 covers for Gambit to date, 331 pulls later and 38 5*s later.  The system doesn’t have any requirement to give you a 15% pull rate.  That’s 11.48% over a pretty high volume of pulls for me.
  • v_ironman
    v_ironman Posts: 22 Just Dropped In
    Avalanche Kincaid said:
    It's hilarious how many 1 or 2 champed 5* rosters include gambit.  The problem with that is if you don't have bolt as your second you are easy pickings for anyone that has a gambit.  I would actually like to see a nerf to gambit just to see the explosion that will occur on the forums.  On a side note, did I just read someone pull 100 LT without a single 5*?  Sorry, but that's not possible, system is built to give out a predetermined 15%. 
    I did, didnt count them exactly but around 100, having a low rate is normal, but 0% ? Something seems broke. Wrote complaining and they told me that I had very bad luck.
    Funny thing is that when I am opening LTs I call a friend, when I was around 20LT without 5* he told me that something was wrong, and we started counting.
  • RayElwood
    RayElwood Posts: 13 Just Dropped In
    I just want to add my voice to the chorus here. With this simulator run and how PvP is going in Hooked on a Feeling, I am absolutely sick of facing lazy butt Gambit who doesn't have to do anything to start hitting huge in just a few turns. I simply cannot find a matchup in Hooked on a Feeling that isn't champed Star-Lord, champed Rogue and champed 5* Gambit. There are so many fun characters in this game, but no one uses them because of this nearly unbeatable lazy Gambit.
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,645 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    The bottom line with this dude is that if you want to play PVP even semi-competitively you have to use him. Sure, I still see Panthos teams clearing grills on hops and weird combos when people are climbing, but to seriously float or climb for any length of time, you have to have Gambit. That is what is broken about him philosophically speaking (the design flaws have been discussed ad nauseam). I, along with many others here advocating for a more significant nerf, have an entire stable of other toons we would like to use but simply cannot.

    And I disagree with the notion you have to partner Gambit with Bolt. I actually don't like using this combo and target others who do. I'll take a race to get 7 red before the opponent any time.

    I'll run Gambit with Bolt about three-quarters of the time against another Gambit team, particularly if I've hit the point where I'm boosting Red/Yellow (usually when I get over 500 or so.)  If you prioritize red, you can take down the other Gambit pretty quickly and generally only eat one or so Aces & Eights.  Sometimes luck betrays you, but rarely bad enough to wipe.

    I never take my own Bolt when facing Gambolt - why should I?  Their Bolt helps me almost as much as it helps the other team and frees me up to bring Thanos, DD, or Hawkeye.  Also, two Bolts means a lot of damage to both teams, and that a) gets risky, and b) means more healthpacks.

    This is my roundabout way of saying I agree with you - Bolt is far from necessary to play with Gambit.  He's almost always the best Gambit partner against a non-Gambit team, but against a Gambit team he's more risky.

  • PenniesForEveryone
    PenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
    GrimSkald said:
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    The bottom line with this dude is that if you want to play PVP even semi-competitively you have to use him. Sure, I still see Panthos teams clearing grills on hops and weird combos when people are climbing, but to seriously float or climb for any length of time, you have to have Gambit. That is what is broken about him philosophically speaking (the design flaws have been discussed ad nauseam). I, along with many others here advocating for a more significant nerf, have an entire stable of other toons we would like to use but simply cannot.

    And I disagree with the notion you have to partner Gambit with Bolt. I actually don't like using this combo and target others who do. I'll take a race to get 7 red before the opponent any time.

    I'll run Gambit with Bolt about three-quarters of the time against another Gambit team, particularly if I've hit the point where I'm boosting Red/Yellow (usually when I get over 500 or so.)  If you prioritize red, you can take down the other Gambit pretty quickly and generally only eat one or so Aces & Eights.  Sometimes luck betrays you, but rarely bad enough to wipe.

    I never take my own Bolt when facing Gambolt - why should I?  Their Bolt helps me almost as much as it helps the other team and frees me up to bring Thanos, DD, or Hawkeye.  Also, two Bolts means a lot of damage to both teams, and that a) gets risky, and b) means more healthpacks.

    This is my roundabout way of saying I agree with you - Bolt is far from necessary to play with Gambit.  He's almost always the best Gambit partner against a non-Gambit team, but against a Gambit team he's more risky.

    All you need with Gambit is someone else to make charged tiles for him so that the first 7 red AP you use actually does damage.  In 90% of the fights you play an opposing Gambit or Bolt will accomplish that goal for you, freeing you to bring Bagman or whoever else you feel like.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well I finally champed him, and I have to say that he is not that OP any more, he is one of the best chars for PvP, but I dont see him as super OP as some people think he is (see later when I talk about the -2AP). I agree he was clearly OP when he was getting 6AP every turn, because what made him OP in my opinion is that he was able to fire his red every two turns or every turn. But he can't do that anymore.

    If you dont bring Bolt to the fight (or wait until the other Gambit fires his red first) he is not that fast anymore. So yeah, Bolt+Gambit is probably one of the best teams around, it is what happens when you pair two of the best chars, but that's the thing, Bolt was already one of the best if not the best char for PvP together with Thanos, so now, Bolt+Gambit they are a deadly duo as they built on each other abilities (people forgot a bit about Bolt because Thanos was slightly faster than him and both overlapped a lot, but Bolt is amazing!).

    I agree the -2AP is annoying, very annoying, and I think it should be reduced to -1AP or removed completely. This is without any doubt the only thing that still makes him a bit OP. And if they nerf him again, I hope they just change this part as I dont like nerfs (specially for 5s).

    Said that, I think the problem most people has with him is that he is quite boring to play and also that he is as useful in attack as is in defense. Most other 5s are useless in defense, but he is quite decent. Also, because almost everybody that has him uses him, PvP is a bit boring now (even though it is the same as with Panthos or OML+Phoenix, but I guess people hates Gambit more :P )

    Now we have another 5 that can produce 5AP extra every turn, in the colors he uses, without stopping any other char powers and also creates quite big cascades, far more than Gambit. The BIG difference is that he needs to be at 50% life, so he is much easier to counter by a player, but in the hands of the player Thor is as much OP as Gambit was before the nerf. Thor also can easily deal with Gambit as the -2AP is not enough to stop him.

    I also think AA was probably designed to be a counter him, but Devs failed miserably with him in that regard. I have AA now at 12 covers (3/4/5) and I am quite disappointed with him. Black is quite useless, just good against goons that produce just one color but it almost never does damage or finishes the count (I guess Hawkeye or Goblin are required), blue is stupidly expensive, and green is just ok.But I am specially disappointed with black.

    I have 14 5s, so I dont care that much if they nerf Gambit or not, as long as they dont nerf him to the ground, but as some other users have said, there is always a meta, and there are always chars who are better than others. Now it is Gambit's turn but probably soon we will have other stronger 5s. We will see what happens...
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst said:

    Leaving newer and new players to fish for him out of that black hole. That will go over well.



    That clock is my PvP doomsday.  I've got a couple of weeks to get 5 more covers.  After that, I'm sure I'll draw nothing but black for my 3/1/5.  Unfortunately, although my draw rate has picked up a bit, all I'm drawing is Archangel.  5 covers for him so far, and couldn't care less.

    I've stopped trying for 900 in PvP.  As soon as I pass 600 it's wall to wall Gambit.  There's no point to playing that mode past the 10 cp anymore.  Waste of time.
  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    Calnexin said:
    aesthetocyst said:

    Leaving newer and new players to fish for him out of that black hole. That will go over well.



    That clock is my PvP doomsday.  I've got a couple of weeks to get 5 more covers.  After that, I'm sure I'll draw nothing but black for my 3/1/5.  Unfortunately, although my draw rate has picked up a bit, all I'm drawing is Archangel.  5 covers for him so far, and couldn't care less.

    I've stopped trying for 900 in PvP.  As soon as I pass 600 it's wall to wall Gambit.  There's no point to playing that mode past the 10 cp anymore.  Waste of time.
    If you/we are really lucky they'll have a 4* feeding his covers as soon as he goes into classics so depending on who it is (Rogue?) you may be able to get covers that way and worst case scenario is only having to sell one black cover as if the previously pattern is following it'll be purple/red/black.

    Of course by the time you've got Rogue (or whoever) to a high enough level you'll have long given up the game having realised you can't compete in PvP without Gambit.
  • RayElwood
    RayElwood Posts: 13 Just Dropped In
    Calnexin said:
    aesthetocyst said:

    Leaving newer and new players to fish for him out of that black hole. That will go over well.



    That clock is my PvP doomsday.  I've got a couple of weeks to get 5 more covers.  After that, I'm sure I'll draw nothing but black for my 3/1/5.  Unfortunately, although my draw rate has picked up a bit, all I'm drawing is Archangel.  5 covers for him so far, and couldn't care less.

    I've stopped trying for 900 in PvP.  As soon as I pass 600 it's wall to wall Gambit.  There's no point to playing that mode past the 10 cp anymore.  Waste of time.
    100% agree. PvP is all about getting to 575 for me. Even that requires going through hoards of Gambit.
  • CT1888
    CT1888 Posts: 1,201 Chairperson of the Boards
    RayElwood said:
    Calnexin said:
    aesthetocyst said:

    Leaving newer and new players to fish for him out of that black hole. That will go over well.



    That clock is my PvP doomsday.  I've got a couple of weeks to get 5 more covers.  After that, I'm sure I'll draw nothing but black for my 3/1/5.  Unfortunately, although my draw rate has picked up a bit, all I'm drawing is Archangel.  5 covers for him so far, and couldn't care less.

    I've stopped trying for 900 in PvP.  As soon as I pass 600 it's wall to wall Gambit.  There's no point to playing that mode past the 10 cp anymore.  Waste of time.
    100% agree. PvP is all about getting to 575 for me. Even that requires going through hoards of Gambit.


    And it's a negative feedback loop - as more people without Gambit give up on going past 575 in pvp, the harder it is for the non-Gambit players left to reach 900 and beyond. I've found myself shield hopping to 900 recently. I put the first shield down around 680 once iirc, as I couldn't face being smashed back to 2-300, with a bunch of Gambit retaliation nodes.

    The fun ebbs out with each event.

    I'm 2 covers sort for my Gambit, so may get lucky yet. The frustrating part is that prior to Gambit. 1200 was relatively straightforward with a bit of shield hopping,  and in all likelihood he'd be champed by now, and Thor would be closer too.

  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think everything has been said now. It's obvious that he will get a nerf in the coming weeks once he moves to classics and we also know that this was their attempt at a minor nerf. Their next attempt wont be so subtle. My 1 week long ambition to move to 5* will have to wait (can't very well jump with 1 and a half 5*) until I cover Thor more and finish Parker via Vulture. I'm back to the idea of sticking at 4* level and permanently softcapping all my 5*, as it stands now softcapping 5's still seems like the way to go. 
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    sinnerjfl said:
    Polares said:
    Now we have another 5 that can produce 5AP extra every turn, in the colors he uses, without stopping any other char powers and also creates quite big cascades, far more than Gambit. The BIG difference is that he needs to be at 50% life, so he is much easier to counter by a player, but in the hands of the player Thor is as much OP as Gambit was before the nerf. Thor also can easily deal with Gambit as the -2AP is not enough to stop him.

    You can counter Thor by keeping him last or unloading all at once when he's under 50% (same with DD). And you know what, they're both fun, balanced and powerful chars.

    You cannot counter Gambit nor leave him for last because his broken passive has no condition whatsoever attached to it, that's why it needs a nerf. After 5 or so turns, its a barrage of 15k dmg + erasing all your specials because why not. It's ridiculous.

    Just make his black like the 3* version, remove team damage and make it 4 charged tiles. Free up other chars to use red/purple at the same time, he's less reliant on another char and he still remains pretty dangerous without being the obnoxious tinykitty he is right now with unconditionnal AP drain/generation.

    He is overpowered and not fun to play with or against as well. He is so boring yet so powerful, its a fail on all levels.
    So basically you are saying they need to nerf him because he is good in defense. And in fact you can counter Gambit passive with AA black (what a joke :P)

    Thing is new 5s are really strong, you can deal with Thor in defense, but if you bring him to every fight at 50% life what is the difference with Gambit? And the player can easily bring him to every fight at 50%, so he is as broken as Gambit.

    And now GR will have an ability that for 9 green can generate 9AP every turn, plus cascades, plus 12k in damage EVERY turn (the damage part is crazy!). Now compare this with SS black hole. This ability looks broken good :S In one turn you get the AP back and do 12k damage, crazy!
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Polares said:
    sinnerjfl said:
    Polares said:
    Now we have another 5 that can produce 5AP extra every turn, in the colors he uses, without stopping any other char powers and also creates quite big cascades, far more than Gambit. The BIG difference is that he needs to be at 50% life, so he is much easier to counter by a player, but in the hands of the player Thor is as much OP as Gambit was before the nerf. Thor also can easily deal with Gambit as the -2AP is not enough to stop him.

    You can counter Thor by keeping him last or unloading all at once when he's under 50% (same with DD). And you know what, they're both fun, balanced and powerful chars.

    You cannot counter Gambit nor leave him for last because his broken passive has no condition whatsoever attached to it, that's why it needs a nerf. After 5 or so turns, its a barrage of 15k dmg + erasing all your specials because why not. It's ridiculous.

    Just make his black like the 3* version, remove team damage and make it 4 charged tiles. Free up other chars to use red/purple at the same time, he's less reliant on another char and he still remains pretty dangerous without being the obnoxious tinykitty he is right now with unconditionnal AP drain/generation.

    He is overpowered and not fun to play with or against as well. He is so boring yet so powerful, its a fail on all levels.
    So basically you are saying they need to nerf him because he is good in defense. And in fact you can counter Gambit passive with AA black (what a joke :P)

    Thing is new 5s are really strong, you can deal with Thor in defense, but if you bring him to every fight at 50% life what is the difference with Gambit? And the player can easily bring him to every fight at 50%, so he is as broken as Gambit.

    And now GR will have an ability that for 9 green can generate 9AP every turn, plus cascades, plus 12k in damage EVERY turn (the damage part is crazy!). Now compare this with SS black hole. This ability looks broken good :S In one turn you get the AP back and do 12k damage, crazy!
    Gambit: Not only is he too good on defense, he's also the most boring char to play because there's nothing to do, you dont even need to match anything because you gain AP automatically (and he also gains more AP with his red which is mind-boggling), its not even fun to use him. Yes a character can be too good on defense, its like if they gave the players the option to play with a Maggia muscle in PVP.
     
    Thor: There's a trade-off, you need to keep him at/under 50% health and its not that easy to keep him there without being near death eventually, it's a risk and yes, when you face him on defense, you can counter him because his passive wont activate until that criteria is met.

    GR: You can stop him from getting 9 green in the first place or slow him down by quite a few turns, he wont gain AP turn 1.

    Im not sure what you dont understand here, you CANNOT counter Gambit's black and it starts from turn 1 which gives him a MASSIVE advantage over every other character.
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    sinnerjfl said:
    Polares said:
    sinnerjfl said:
    Polares said:
    Now we have another 5 that can produce 5AP extra every turn, in the colors he uses, without stopping any other char powers and also creates quite big cascades, far more than Gambit. The BIG difference is that he needs to be at 50% life, so he is much easier to counter by a player, but in the hands of the player Thor is as much OP as Gambit was before the nerf. Thor also can easily deal with Gambit as the -2AP is not enough to stop him.

    You can counter Thor by keeping him last or unloading all at once when he's under 50% (same with DD). And you know what, they're both fun, balanced and powerful chars.

    You cannot counter Gambit nor leave him for last because his broken passive has no condition whatsoever attached to it, that's why it needs a nerf. After 5 or so turns, its a barrage of 15k dmg + erasing all your specials because why not. It's ridiculous.

    Just make his black like the 3* version, remove team damage and make it 4 charged tiles. Free up other chars to use red/purple at the same time, he's less reliant on another char and he still remains pretty dangerous without being the obnoxious tinykitty he is right now with unconditionnal AP drain/generation.

    He is overpowered and not fun to play with or against as well. He is so boring yet so powerful, its a fail on all levels.
    So basically you are saying they need to nerf him because he is good in defense. And in fact you can counter Gambit passive with AA black (what a joke :P)

    Thing is new 5s are really strong, you can deal with Thor in defense, but if you bring him to every fight at 50% life what is the difference with Gambit? And the player can easily bring him to every fight at 50%, so he is as broken as Gambit.

    And now GR will have an ability that for 9 green can generate 9AP every turn, plus cascades, plus 12k in damage EVERY turn (the damage part is crazy!). Now compare this with SS black hole. This ability looks broken good :S In one turn you get the AP back and do 12k damage, crazy!
    Gambit: Not only is he too good on defense, he's also the most boring char to play because there's nothing to do, you dont even need to match anything because you gain AP automatically (and he also gains more AP with his red which is mind-boggling), its not even fun to use him. Yes a character can be too good on defense, its like if they gave the players the option to play with a Maggia muscle in PVP.
     
    Thor: There's a trade-off, you need to keep him at/under 50% health and its not that easy to keep him there without being near death eventually, it's a risk and yes, when you face him on defense, you can counter him because his passive wont activate until that criteria is met.

    GR: You can stop him from getting 9 green in the first place or slow him down by quite a few turns, he wont gain AP turn 1.

    Im not sure what you dont understand here, you CANNOT counter Gambit's black and it starts from turn 1 which gives him a MASSIVE advantage over every other character.

    I dont see how thor is a trade off you play him until he gets to 50 percent and then he just gets better, same with daredevil. the only different is thor is generating 5 AP a turn plus damage... while gambit generates 4 and blocks two colors.

    Gambit isn't boring to me at all, while i usually have him on the team, I can play plenty other characters somewhat competitively in 5 land because gambit is on my team. 4's at that.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2018
    sinnerjfl said:
    Polares said:
    sinnerjfl said:
    Polares said:
    Now we have another 5 that can produce 5AP extra every turn, in the colors he uses, without stopping any other char powers and also creates quite big cascades, far more than Gambit. The BIG difference is that he needs to be at 50% life, so he is much easier to counter by a player, but in the hands of the player Thor is as much OP as Gambit was before the nerf. Thor also can easily deal with Gambit as the -2AP is not enough to stop him.

    You can counter Thor by keeping him last or unloading all at once when he's under 50% (same with DD). And you know what, they're both fun, balanced and powerful chars.

    You cannot counter Gambit nor leave him for last because his broken passive has no condition whatsoever attached to it, that's why it needs a nerf. After 5 or so turns, its a barrage of 15k dmg + erasing all your specials because why not. It's ridiculous.

    Just make his black like the 3* version, remove team damage and make it 4 charged tiles. Free up other chars to use red/purple at the same time, he's less reliant on another char and he still remains pretty dangerous without being the obnoxious tinykitty he is right now with unconditionnal AP drain/generation.

    He is overpowered and not fun to play with or against as well. He is so boring yet so powerful, its a fail on all levels.
    So basically you are saying they need to nerf him because he is good in defense. And in fact you can counter Gambit passive with AA black (what a joke :P)

    Thing is new 5s are really strong, you can deal with Thor in defense, but if you bring him to every fight at 50% life what is the difference with Gambit? And the player can easily bring him to every fight at 50%, so he is as broken as Gambit.

    And now GR will have an ability that for 9 green can generate 9AP every turn, plus cascades, plus 12k in damage EVERY turn (the damage part is crazy!). Now compare this with SS black hole. This ability looks broken good :S In one turn you get the AP back and do 12k damage, crazy!
    Gambit: Not only is he too good on defense, he's also the most boring char to play because there's nothing to do, you dont even need to match anything because you gain AP automatically (and he also gains more AP with his red which is mind-boggling), its not even fun to use him. Yes a character can be too good on defense, its like if they gave the players the option to play with a Maggia muscle in PVP.
     
    Thor: There's a trade-off, you need to keep him at/under 50% health and its not that easy to keep him there without being near death eventually, it's a risk and yes, when you face him on defense, you can counter him because his passive wont activate until that criteria is met.

    GR: You can stop him from getting 9 green in the first place or slow him down by quite a few turns, he wont gain AP turn 1.

    Im not sure what you dont understand here, you CANNOT counter Gambit's black and it starts from turn 1 which gives him a MASSIVE advantage over every other character.
    Oh it is very easy to always start with Thor at 50%. Just start and abandon fights in PvE until you get him to 50%, then when it gets to close to die you heal him and repeat. And there is really nothing to worry about bringing him at 50% to a fight as he gets so many AP, cascades, and dmg you will always win. So you see, 5AP from turn 1.

    You won’t probably do this in all fights, but I will certainly prepare my Thor to be 50% before a hop.

    And having a char that is boring is not a reason to nerf him. No one is forcing you to use him.

    I keep thinking he is not as OP as when he was getting 6AP every turn. But anyway, if they nerf him let’s be it, I just hope they don’t nerf him too much.
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    LifeofAgony said:
    “ I can play plenty other characters somewhat competitively in 5 land because gambit is on my team. 4's at that“

    Yes, because you have gambit.  Take gambit out of the equation and you’re a sitting duck.  It’s nice you don’t find it boring to have to run gambit + every pvp match.  

    If a game of over 160 toons requires 1 toon to be part of every single combo to compete, you’re doing it wrong.

    #nerfgambit


    So so the fact that I can play more characters varying from 4 to 5 because of gambit makes it a bad thing?

    if I didn’t have gambit I would go back to playing the exact same 5 team I had to play in pvp to be competitive at all. That was way more boring and took longer than currently. I don’t understand how having to run one character and having more options with two/one more is so much worse than having to run whatever the meta is outside of gambit.

    gambit gives me much more chances to mess with variety than not. He is an anchor sure but my roster opens up because of him not closes.


    is it annoying to see him all the Time sure...but that’s no different from whatever strong character that is part of the meta.


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