Please nerf 5* Gambit

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  • evade420
    evade420 Posts: 440 Mover and Shaker
    Gambit I just fine the way he is please and thank you , I don't think that nerfing a character is ever the right answer. 
    And Gambit can be taken down just fine by pathos or DD never had a problem before. Gambolt is deadly tho
  • WelcomeDeath
    WelcomeDeath Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker
    @Warbringa all 5* heal that slow.  They have a massive health pool to recover. 1* take like 5 mins, 2* take like an hour, builds up every tier.  Boosted ones look like they heal quicker cause it's healing the base level,  not the boosted health.  

    Also.. I agree that if you just remove the AP drain gambit would be far more manageable.  He'd still be really good but much more beatable.  

  • rixmith
    rixmith Posts: 707 Critical Contributor
    I think the AP Generation from his Red is a problem. The fact that 2 charged tiles generate 6 AP, if there are red charged tiles on the board he can effectively do 15K damage for 1 red AP. If his Red simply did damage and didn't return any AP or do tile destruction that would help bring his design more in line.

    I've lost so many Gambit vs. Gambit battles because my opponent's Red power generated AP, then the cascade from the tile destruction generated more, and basically I lost the match because of a single cast of a 7 AP power that was funded with 2 AP per turn. It effectively turned a strategic battle into a completely random outcome. Which is totally not fun and not the point of this game.

    I wasn't caught up to the meta in the days of 4* Thor/Wolverine or Sentry/Hood or Panthos, but was PVP as miserable at those times as it is now? 



  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,758 Chairperson of the Boards
    rixmith said:


    I wasn't caught up to the meta in the days of 4* Thor/Wolverine or Sentry/Hood or Panthos, but was PVP as miserable at those times as it is now? 



    Sentry/hood was a nasty meta.  It was so good and fast as it was a race to 7AP and then the game was over.  Thor/Wolvie was good but was surpassed by Hulkbuster/IF after the Xforce nerf.  Panthos was tough but you could beat it with other teams.  Gambit is like the old hood days where the only way to really take on gambit is with gambit.  In mirror matches it was more of a coin flip with sentry hood then with Gambit.  
    Min today’s meta you see gambit Thanos, Gambit BB, Gambit Thor, so each match is different but Gambit has taken over for Thanos as the must have.
  • j0nats
    j0nats Posts: 149 Tile Toppler
    my only hope is that any change done to gambit should still keep him on top of the meta.  we cant just go back to thanos on top boring.  

    also... if we go by pure engagement numbers, # of matches with thanos still well exceeds matches with gambit due to thanos' unparalleld speed in pve (6-7 matches per node x 9), and grill-eating in pvp
  • SpringSoldier
    SpringSoldier Posts: 265 Mover and Shaker
    I think this was mentioned before: Dr. Strange would be a great defense against Gambit if he would get buffed to 1. stronger health and 2. more damage on his passive.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    SpringSoldier said:
    I think this was mentioned before: Dr. Strange would be a great defense against Gambit if he would get buffed to 1. stronger health and 2. more damage on his passive.

    That would make him god-tier and shift the meta from Gambit/other to Gambit/Strange.
    Not a good solution.
  • Avalanche Kincaid
    Avalanche Kincaid Posts: 83 Match Maker
    There's no way gambit is being used as much as OML was in the past.  Under covered OML were being used in PvP/PvE which is not the case with gambit.  There were also far fewer 5* so mid tier players were more likely to have a usable under covered OML then having a usable full covered gambit now.  If I remember correctly, people were complaining and quitting after the OML nerf and yet these same people are now these same people asking for gambit to be nerfed.   Nerf or no nerf on gambit I'm fine, but it's not like I'm going to be using over half of my champed 5*.  Oh yeah, I want variety of using starlord and BSS in competitive PvP, lol.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    Don't worry guys, I just got the 13th cover for him (well, it needs to be swapped, so there are a few days more until I can max him) so expect him to be nerfed again soon :P

    I think the nerf would have been alright if it would destroy just one AP ( 5 AP with 5 covers, 2+2+abs(-1) ). That small change would make him still very very good, but not OP anymore. With the -2AP I still think there was a nerf, but probably the smallest nerf ever done.


    PS: For me it is still a nerf, because even though it also slows the other team, Gambit is all about firing powers as much as possible ( you need to fire red all the time, to charge tiles and get the AP), so the change from 3 to 2 APs really slows him down A LOT, but obviously the -2AP makes it quite hard for the other team to fire powers so it forces you to bring people like Strage, Bolt, BP or Thanos, to kill Gambit as fast as possible (but if you bring chars that do damage without firing powers, there really is more time for them to kill Gambit before he goes crazy).
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
    At best, it was an equal change as dropping 2 ap gen and adding a 2ap drain (as stated many times, both being unconditionally.  At worst, adding any new unconditional passive would be considered a buff despite any small change to his power.

    Still the same issues, huge nuke, ap generating board shake, 2 absurd passives, power to overwrite any special tiles, and a better than average health pool.  It needs repair.  Desperately.
  • Crnch73
    Crnch73 Posts: 504 Critical Contributor
    Can you consider it a huge nuke if it doesn’t one-shot kill enemies of a similar level? Meaning, sure... it nukes a low leveled 4champ... but there’s no way a 5champ has 16k health to start. A champed 5* SHOULD be able to spank a level 280 4 star, and probably even a non leveled 5star. Not arguing gambit at all, just saying that to me... a nuke is something that will one shot kill a similarly leveled opponent (or even a higher level opponent). Killing a tier down (and possibly 170 levels below) in one shot does not make a nuke in my opinion. Most champed 4s have a power that can one shot kill a low leveled champ 3... those aren’t nukes either
  • LifeofAgony
    LifeofAgony Posts: 690 Critical Contributor
    Because of the possibility for both cascade and the 6ap return each shot, it becomes a nuke imho.  You fire red and hit 2 red charges, and get a free match or 2.  Now your fire red again, lather rinse repeat.  As a stand-alone, strictly damage dealing, it’s not terrible.  But you have to account it’s a cheap power (7ap) brings back at least 6ap, and potentially more with cascading, it becomes a nuke.
  • Orion
    Orion Posts: 1,295 Chairperson of the Boards
    LifeofAgony said:
    Because of the possibility for both cascade and the 6ap return each shot, it becomes a nuke imho.  You fire red and hit 2 red charges, and get a free match or 2.  Now your fire red again, lather rinse repeat.  As a stand-alone, strictly damage dealing, it’s not terrible.  But you have to account it’s a cheap power (7ap) brings back at least 6ap, and potentially more with cascading, it becomes a nuke.
    Especially when you compare it to other nuke abilities in the 5* tier.  As a red 7 AP ability, it blows Surfer's red out of the water.  IM46's red costs 2 AP more but only does more damage if you team him up with multiple Team Iron Man partners.  And that ignores Gambit's red gaining back 6 AP.  Goblin's black does a bit more, but you can only use it once every few turns.

    No 5* ability can 1-shot another 5*, so this is as big of a nuke as you'll get.

    My fixes for Gambit right from the beginning were - 1) no teammates can fire purple/red (done).  2) drop passive AP gain down to 2 red / 2 purple (done, but added ridiculous drain).  3) tiles destroyed by red ability don't gain AP.

    Basically it's his ridiculous AP gain that makes him so strong.  Get rid of the drain and the AP gain from his red and he'd be much more balanced.  Still very, very good, but not god-mode like he is now.
  • 658
    658 Posts: 51 Match Maker
    edited January 2018
    CharlieCroker said:
    One of the biggest problems for me is his purple which counters virtually anything other 5* characters can throw at him.  Even with Gambit 'only' generating 2ap per turn, he can still fire this every 5/6 turns.

    There are some decent/fun powers out there, such as Daredevil healing, Thor yellow, Hawkeye countdowns and Panther black and all of them are made next to useless by Gambit purple.  

    The best way to prevent this would just be to get rid of the free ap generation.  If the devs aren't willing to do this, perhaps they should consider removing the overwriting aspect of purple.  

    Imo, the overwriting is his real great strength. The devs have become over reliant on countdowns to add complexity to the 5* tier.  Even if red was nerfed, as long as Gambit has a health pool, he’s going to be ubiquitous because the overwriting either entirely shuts down opponents (Thanos, Hawkeye), or severely cripples them (basically everyone else).  

    Personally don’t think Gambit should be nerfed again.  His ubiquity is only in the very top tier(s) of pvp, he’s in line with the rest of the 5* characters on speed (still maybe fastest, but the differences are reasonable now), and he’s no longer rare at all. The vast majority of high level players have him by now.  You see the complaints in this thread dropped to almost nothing.

    Devs should however develop more strong 5* characters who don’t rely on special tiles at all, especially countdowns.  I’d way rather see them come out of this with power creep and rebalances than nerfs. Power creep is fun for those who keep their rosters up to date, and so are rebalances.  ****, if they gave OML an active red nuke, pre transformation, say 16k/9, he’d take out Gambit without problem 98% of the time.

    *edit* fixed a couple typos and cleaned up a sentence.
  • 658
    658 Posts: 51 Match Maker
    Bowgentle said:
    658 said:
    CharlieCroker said:
    One of the biggest problems for me is his purple which counters virtually anything other 5* characters can throw at him.  Even with Gambit 'only' generating 2ap per turn, he can still fire this every 5/6 turns.

    There are some decent/fun powers out there, such as Daredevil healing, Thor yellow, Hawkeye countdowns and Panther black and all of them are made next to useless by Gambit purple.  

    The best way to prevent this would just be to get rid of the free ap generation.  If the devs aren't willing to do this, perhaps they should consider removing the overwriting aspect of purple.  

    Imo, the overwriting is his real great strength. The devs have become over reliant on countdowns to add complexity to the 5* tier.  Even if red was nerfed, as long as Gambit has a health pool, he’s going to be ubiquitous because the overwriting either entirely shuts down opponents (Thanos, Hawkeye), or severely cripples them (basically everyone else).  

    Personally don’t think Gambit should be nerfed again.  His ubiquity is only in the very top tier(s) of pvp, he’s in line with the rest of the tier on speed (still maybe fastest, but the differences are reasonable now), and he’s no longer rare at all.  Almost the whole tier 5* only tier has him by now.  You see the complaints in this thread dropped to almost nothing.

    Devs should however develop more strong 5* characters who don’t rely on special tiles at all, especially countdowns.  I’d way rather see them come out of this with power creep and rebalances than nerfs. Power creep is fun for those who keep their rosters up to date, and so are rebalances.  tinykitty, if they gave OML an active red nuke, pre transformation, say 16k/9, he’d take out Gambit without problem 98% of the time.
    The complaints have mostly died down because most of us think he'll get his real nerf once he goes into classics.

    Expect A LOT more complaining if that doesn't happen.
    Maybe. If they release a 5 who passively removes a charged tile every round, Gambit becomes a slow as molasses defensive character.  It’s not really that complicated to develop a counter.
  • Hadronic
    Hadronic Posts: 338 Mover and Shaker
    Orion said:
    LifeofAgony said:
    Because of the possibility for both cascade and the 6ap return each shot, it becomes a nuke imho.  You fire red and hit 2 red charges, and get a free match or 2.  Now your fire red again, lather rinse repeat.  As a stand-alone, strictly damage dealing, it’s not terrible.  But you have to account it’s a cheap power (7ap) brings back at least 6ap, and potentially more with cascading, it becomes a nuke.
    Especially when you compare it to other nuke abilities in the 5* tier.  As a red 7 AP ability, it blows Surfer's red out of the water.  IM46's red costs 2 AP more but only does more damage if you team him up with multiple Team Iron Man partners.  And that ignores Gambit's red gaining back 6 AP.  Goblin's black does a bit more, but you can only use it once every few turns.

    No 5* ability can 1-shot another 5*, so this is as big of a nuke as you'll get.

    My fixes for Gambit right from the beginning were - 1) no teammates can fire purple/red (done).  2) drop passive AP gain down to 2 red / 2 purple (done, but added ridiculous drain).  3) tiles destroyed by red ability don't gain AP.

    Basically it's his ridiculous AP gain that makes him so strong.  Get rid of the drain and the AP gain from his red and he'd be much more balanced.  Still very, very good, but not god-mode like he is now.
    What if his red only created non-red and non-purple charged tiles. So his red could feed others AP but not himself?
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    658 said:

    Personally don’t think Gambit should be nerfed again.  His ubiquity is only in the very top tier(s) of pvp, he’s in line with the rest of the tier on speed (still maybe fastest, but the differences are reasonable now), and he’s no longer rare at all.  Almost the whole tier 5* only tier has him by now.  You see the complaints in this thread dropped to almost nothing.

    Devs should however develop more strong 5* characters who don’t rely on special tiles at all, especially countdowns.  I’d way rather see them come out of this with power creep and rebalances than nerfs. Power creep is fun for those who keep their rosters up to date, and so are rebalances.  tinykitty, if they gave OML an active red nuke, pre transformation, say 16k/9, he’d take out Gambit without problem 98% of the time.
    Have you tried fighting Gambit without your own? Its ridiculously annoying and gets old real fast. So I guess if you can't champion Gambit you should give up on the 5* tier for PVP?

    That's completely stupid and people looking to move in the 5* tier in the future will be even more angry.

    The only counter is to stun him until he dies (or your own Gambit), not exactly balanced.
  • 658
    658 Posts: 51 Match Maker
    sinnerjfl said:
    658 said:

    Personally don’t think Gambit should be nerfed again.  His ubiquity is only in the very top tier(s) of pvp, he’s in line with the rest of the tier on speed (still maybe fastest, but the differences are reasonable now), and he’s no longer rare at all.  Almost the whole tier 5* only tier has him by now.  You see the complaints in this thread dropped to almost nothing.

    Devs should however develop more strong 5* characters who don’t rely on special tiles at all, especially countdowns.  I’d way rather see them come out of this with power creep and rebalances than nerfs. Power creep is fun for those who keep their rosters up to date, and so are rebalances.  tinykitty, if they gave OML an active red nuke, pre transformation, say 16k/9, he’d take out Gambit without problem 98% of the time.
    Have you tried fighting Gambit without your own? Its ridiculously annoying and gets old real fast. So I guess if you can't champion Gambit you should give up on the 5* tier for PVP?

    That's completely stupid and people looking to move in the 5* tier in the future will be even more angry.

    The only counter is to stun him until he dies (or your own Gambit), not exactly balanced.
    Obviously they should do something to remedy the situation.  That’s the theme of nearly my entire post.

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