thedarkphoenix said: Gambit really isn't the problem, a gambit team without blackbolt or anyone that can create charged tiles isn't really tough nor scary. Getting hit for 15k possibly every 3 turn as opposed to 6 turns is a huge difference. With BB on the team, As soon as he gets 7 red its big damage and there is no way to stop having charges tiles out at turn 2.So his "problem" is he just has AMAZING synergy with black bolt who also is really good and passively does something.Together there is no way around it being the best duo you can literally plug anyone into that 3rd spot and be ok. ( which some might argue is a good thing)So nerfing gambit (again) is a bit unfair as he just so happens to work really well with another character. nerfing synergy is never a good idea to me unless it literally is unstoppable/gaming ending or a team wipeOnce they add a 5 that passively deals/removes with charge tiles (and possibly gets a buff from dealing with it) gambit will be all but useless (well not really) as he'd probably just go to a 5/3/5 build and be more support than a nuker.
CharlieCroker said: thedarkphoenix said: Gambit really isn't the problem, a gambit team without blackbolt or anyone that can create charged tiles isn't really tough nor scary. Getting hit for 15k possibly every 3 turn as opposed to 6 turns is a huge difference. With BB on the team, As soon as he gets 7 red its big damage and there is no way to stop having charges tiles out at turn 2.So his "problem" is he just has AMAZING synergy with black bolt who also is really good and passively does something.Together there is no way around it being the best duo you can literally plug anyone into that 3rd spot and be ok. ( which some might argue is a good thing)So nerfing gambit (again) is a bit unfair as he just so happens to work really well with another character. nerfing synergy is never a good idea to me unless it literally is unstoppable/gaming ending or a team wipeOnce they add a 5 that passively deals/removes with charge tiles (and possibly gets a buff from dealing with it) gambit will be all but useless (well not really) as he'd probably just go to a 5/3/5 build and be more support than a nuker. The thing is everyone that has Gambit runs him. Period. To say he is only broken with Bolt is just plain wrong. I've seen rosters with multiple characters in the 500's run a 45x Gambit over all them. And there's a reason for that - he's just too strong. With Bolt he is of course amazing, but the likes of HE, SS, Thor & OML (amongst others) compliment him extremely well too.Perhaps with the rebalance Gambit is, without Bolt, more beatable. I wouldn't know, now I have my own Gambit (albeit 10-15 levels behind other 5* champs), I'm almost obliged to run him once past a certain point threshold otherwise I'll both struggle on offense and be decimated on defense.
huktonfonix said: thedarkphoenix said: Gambit really isn't the problem, a gambit team without blackbolt or anyone that can create charged tiles isn't really tough nor scary. Getting hit for 15k possibly every 3 turn as opposed to 6 turns is a huge difference. With BB on the team, As soon as he gets 7 red its big damage and there is no way to stop having charges tiles out at turn 2.So his "problem" is he just has AMAZING synergy with black bolt who also is really good and passively does something.Together there is no way around it being the best duo you can literally plug anyone into that 3rd spot and be ok. ( which some might argue is a good thing)So nerfing gambit (again) is a bit unfair as he just so happens to work really well with another character. nerfing synergy is never a good idea to me unless it literally is unstoppable/gaming ending or a team wipeOnce they add a 5 that passively deals/removes with charge tiles (and possibly gets a buff from dealing with it) gambit will be all but useless (well not really) as he'd probably just go to a 5/3/5 build and be more support than a nuker. This is just false. As others have pointed out, Gambit works just great with plenty of other characters. I rarely run him with Black Bolt, as that is just giving free charged tiles to the opponent. Most players LOVE using Gambit + X versus Gambit BB, as the enemy Black Bolt is like a free 4th character for your own team.In the Thanos pvp ending today, a fairly well-known player ran Gambit + Bagman most of the event. He also floated unshielded over 1000 points most of the event with that team, and finished T5 in CL9 with about 1600 points.I'd take a level 450 Gambit and literally any other character on my roster over any pair of non-Gambit 450 5*s.
Sabintribal said: I happen to really like Gambit's play, it's fun for once. How about we just say screw vs in general, because it hasn't been fun to play in 1 year +. How about a flat out 5 star ban in vs.
thedarkphoenix said: I don’t see how this is any different from any other “must haves” for meta previously. But that’s just me...now if people feel feel like he’s as strong as 4Thor and reworked xforce and oml was at the time they were “must haves” then I can see the line of thinking.but if you felt any of those characters were ok or “not that bad” and gambit is....that just doesn’t add up to me
That's actually a really hard comparison since the game has changed so much since those two characters - GT and XForce were, at the time, two out of only 4 4*s. The weekly boosted characters were just not a thing then and as a result, people always fielded the same characters in PVP. It was a very different game then, IMHO the game is much more fun and interesting now, but still it makes it difficult to compare things directly.
That being said, I do think that GT and XForce were way overpowered compared to the remaining characters (and the characters they've introduced since,) and I think that Gambit is similarly out of scale. The fact that both of them were probably nerfed too hard is immaterial.
huktonfonix said: 27 pages of discussion on what the real Gambit problem is and how to tweak him. As LifeofAgony said, every one of his abilities is a problem.It’s like they gave us a house with a flooded first floor and a burning roof. We debate for two months which is the problem and proposing increasingly outlandish fixes. Maybe we should build another house next door with water cannons on top!After two months they release a statement: “We’ve heard your complaints about the house and are aware of the problems. Our goal in building this house was to make it unique and special, and we feel that the burning roof accomplishes that goal. However, data shows the flooding on the first floor is dangerous. To that end we’ve siphoned out 33% of the water and introduced cracks in the foundation to allow additional excess water to drain. You’re welcome.”A month later we’re still debating whether we need to fix the burning roof, the flooded first floor, or the newly-crumbling foundation.We need to bulldoze the house and start over.
Crnch73 said: huktonfonix said: 27 pages of discussion on what the real Gambit problem is and how to tweak him. As LifeofAgony said, every one of his abilities is a problem.It’s like they gave us a house with a flooded first floor and a burning roof. We debate for two months which is the problem and proposing increasingly outlandish fixes. Maybe we should build another house next door with water cannons on top!After two months they release a statement: “We’ve heard your complaints about the house and are aware of the problems. Our goal in building this house was to make it unique and special, and we feel that the burning roof accomplishes that goal. However, data shows the flooding on the first floor is dangerous. To that end we’ve siphoned out 33% of the water and introduced cracks in the foundation to allow additional excess water to drain. You’re welcome.”A month later we’re still debating whether we need to fix the burning roof, the flooded first floor, or the newly-crumbling foundation.We need to bulldoze the house and start over. In reality... it’s like people who live in sucky houses complaining about the rich people who have nice houses. The answer would be to make more houses better, not destroy the nicest house just because it was making you feel bad. “Why is that house so much better than this house?!” It just is. Let’s make more nice houses just like it, rather than destroy what’s already there
Crnch73 said: I didn’t say buff everyone. And I’m ok with rebalancing gambit as well. But most people aren’t saying a gentle rebalance, they want a nerf. Take away his AP gen, then you hafta make something do more damagemake his red less powerful or not gather AP, then purple needs to be deadlier. No matter what, there will always be people saying the most powerful character of any tier is just not fun to play against. If the majority of people on this forum weren’t playing with 5s, I bet C4rol would be a hot button topic. Someone’s gotta be the best character in the 5s, he just needs some tweaks but it sounds like people want him dead. I liked the idea of saying he could do damage if there were less than X charged tiles on the board, and then create Y amount of charged tiles. Maybe Divide X by however many charged tiles are on the board. Maybe make it cost more AP, remove the AP destruction. But then purple would have to make more tiles or be worth more damage. There’s no easy answer, but most sound irrational. Come up with a good change other than “eliminate all his powers”
PenniesForEveryone said: Crnch73 said: I didn’t say buff everyone. And I’m ok with rebalancing gambit as well. But most people aren’t saying a gentle rebalance, they want a nerf. Take away his AP gen, then you hafta make something do more damagemake his red less powerful or not gather AP, then purple needs to be deadlier. No matter what, there will always be people saying the most powerful character of any tier is just not fun to play against. If the majority of people on this forum weren’t playing with 5s, I bet C4rol would be a hot button topic. Someone’s gotta be the best character in the 5s, he just needs some tweaks but it sounds like people want him dead. I liked the idea of saying he could do damage if there were less than X charged tiles on the board, and then create Y amount of charged tiles. Maybe Divide X by however many charged tiles are on the board. Maybe make it cost more AP, remove the AP destruction. But then purple would have to make more tiles or be worth more damage. There’s no easy answer, but most sound irrational. Come up with a good change other than “eliminate all his powers” I don't know how you can completely miss the point after 27 pages. It's not that Gambit is the best, and annoying to fight, it's that he's at least a full tier above every other character in the game. You used to be able to champ any two 5s and be competitive in the 5* tier, with Gambit it's much MUCH harder. You used to be able to use some of your high level boosted champed 4*s to take down Panthos, or other 5* duos, with Gambit it's much MUCH harder.He has completely redefined the meta such that players that have Gambit are really a tier above those without.