Please nerf 5* Gambit

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  • WelcomeDeath
    WelcomeDeath Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker
    therightwaye said:
    Re evaluated my simple Gambit fix:
    Add AP gain to each color it charges for. No more Gambatt. (ie red covers for red ap gain, etc)
    Black becomes "Charged defense" - Gambit takes "less damage %" for damage over X. When this happens, put CD tile out that lessens damage Gambit does by "less damage %". And lower Gambit HP. Because 5bit is OP.

    I think with that you get a less OP Gambit who is still probably top tier but not as much. And you remove "unintentional" Gambatt (who I love using)
    So, keep the AP gain and also give him a BP style defense against attacks?  So he needs a buff cause he sucks in his current state?
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    aesthetocyst said:
    So.....who's running unbuffed Gambit instead of buffed Hawkeye this PvE? 

    Anyone?

    Anyone?

    Oh yeah, me.
    Probably the same people that run the strongest characters in the game and the requires per usual
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    You know the funny thing about gambit is until you get him the game is largely unchanged for you unless you had a strong line up of 5's or champed 4's.


    Its the same avoid the strongest characters/character/team until you get them and can compete. Once you get a gambit he equalizes the playing field in pvp, in pve he's still nice but not as dominating as pvp. 


    Once you get champed gambit you basically can fight whatever and whoever with a shot at winning. I don't know if that speaks more about the game or gambit.



    I don't really see much of a difference in him as compared to other good characters, its always the same with them, and I find it odd that people care so much, it has to be people that are upset they can be touched now and people who don't have a gambit but need one to compete competitively.

    This game "competitive" nature has always been, have the best or use the best gimmick until the next one comes along. ALWAYS, from loki, spidey, to, mags, to rags, to sentry/hood, xforce, the list goes on and on.... And that's just including the character gimmicks not the system one people abuse. 

    So saying gambit destroys the "heart of the game" is not valid imo, you know what destorys the heart of game, cupcaking, tapping, things like that. Gambit....not so much. 



  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2017
    Have to agree with @LifeofAgony last post and second the you're wrong @thedarkphoenix.

    I could run any pairing of my 5 champ 5s against Panthos (yes, even Ock/whoever) and expect to win. Any combination of 5s can be beaten by any other combination of 5s, and you go in expecting to win. Sure, you get the occasional bad board or the AI gets a cascade from hell, but for the most part you go in thinking you'll be able to win. 

    Then Gambit came along... EVERY match against him is a crapshoot, especially when you don't have him yourself. And, if you do win, you're guaranteed to be using health packs. And if Gambit is paired with Black Bolt or Hawkeye it's even worse..... I came across a Gambit, Hawkeye, Coulson team in shield simulator..... Won't try that again, even with boosts.

    No, Gambit's ap generation is game breaking, it needs to be taken away. This game revolves around the board, Gambit revolves around nothing more than himself.
  • therightwaye
    therightwaye Posts: 459 Mover and Shaker
    Welcome Death said:
    therightwaye said:
    Re evaluated my simple Gambit fix:
    Add AP gain to each color it charges for. No more Gambatt. (ie red covers for red ap gain, etc)
    Black becomes "Charged defense" - Gambit takes "less damage %" for damage over X. When this happens, put CD tile out that lessens damage Gambit does by "less damage %". And lower Gambit HP. Because 5bit is OP.

    I think with that you get a less OP Gambit who is still probably top tier but not as much. And you remove "unintentional" Gambatt (who I love using)
    So, keep the AP gain and also give him a BP style defense against attacks?  So he needs a buff cause he sucks in his current state?
    I think that balances him out. Right now he is super strong offensively and very strong defensively. I think if you keep him strong damage dealer, then you need to lower his HP. So change his black, fix the gambatt and give him a bit of strategy. Do you take the hit and do 1/2 damage? I think this is different from BP, because BP goes stun and comes back stronger. Way stronger. 

    In my opinion even if you fix his AP gen, gambatt-ness, you still have a character that hits for a ton of damage and still has too much HP. 

    I thought my approach offered a better balance and a more fair PvP opponent (while not losing the aggressive PvP team mate)
  • Jonny1Punch
    Jonny1Punch Posts: 436 Mover and Shaker
    Great post rockett & a fun way of saying “ Gambit has made everyone else obsolete “.

    Although I don’t want him to get overnerfed via OML and sent to the 5* bargain bin with banner..... he needs more then a little tweak. A moderate and fair rebalance of all three of his abilities is necessary along with how they should scale with levels and maybe even adjustments to his health pool. We can argue the minor details all day but when a 450 Gambit is outperforming most 550 5* that deserves immediate attention. He just simply does way too much with no drawbacks. 
  • mr_X
    mr_X Posts: 375 Mover and Shaker
    Exactly. One character has effectively nerfed the whole 5* tier. Not sure what tier Gambit is in comparison. 5.5*

    In reality does not matter as highlighted above alot of the other characters key abilities just feed him and make him stronger and if they don't they are no match for him. 

    I have always thought underpinning this game was a complex version of rock paper scissors. Each character has their pros and cons. Advantages and disadvantages. The balances and counterbalances underpinning this game have been nerfed. 

    Its really is a game of rock paper nuclear weapon now...

    Hopefully they can rebalance him without breaking him so he can still be a strong character but not so far ahead of the rest of the tier.
  • Jonny1Punch
    Jonny1Punch Posts: 436 Mover and Shaker
    Agreed mr_X. I was thinking the same thing about gambit being a 5.5* while so many others are still 4.5* in the 5* tier. I still stand by my thoughts that even with a gambit nerf being necessary we still need buffs in the 5* Division. Gambit just made all the cracks in the wall that much more apparent & visible.
  • madoctor
    madoctor Posts: 292 Mover and Shaker
    sambrookjm said:
    Welcome Death said:
    Why do people keep saying Thanos was considered OP upon release?  This is just not true.  Thanos was considered garbage upon release. 
    I remember that...Thanos was considered garbage mainly because his Court Death did more total damage to your own team than it did to the enemy team at LVLs 1-4, I believe.  It switched back at LVL 5, but there was still a LOT of self-hurt from his Court Death ability.  Once that got switched around, and that happened relatively quickly (much quicker than the length of time Gambit's been busted), he improved greatly.
    The one you are talking about who was changed was 3* thanos. We are talking about 5* Thanos whose numbers weren't changed.

    I see many forumites and users here posting who "threatened to quit the game" if the OML nerf wasn't reversed. If you don't get the sarcasm in their posts then I don't know what to say.

    Nerf Thanos and I'd be fine with Gambit nerf (Note - do not have have a Gambit but soon going to champ Thanos). Anyways this is moot since Gambit won't be getting a nerf. Thanos is anyways first in line. Some whale thinks Hawkeye is OP.

    Adapt and survive IMO.
  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thanos and Hawkeye are fine as they are. Gambit wants to be rebalanced for sanity. 

    I have all 3 of them champed. 
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    madoctor said:
    sambrookjm said:
    Welcome Death said:
    Why do people keep saying Thanos was considered OP upon release?  This is just not true.  Thanos was considered garbage upon release. 
    I remember that...Thanos was considered garbage mainly because his Court Death did more total damage to your own team than it did to the enemy team at LVLs 1-4, I believe.  It switched back at LVL 5, but there was still a LOT of self-hurt from his Court Death ability.  Once that got switched around, and that happened relatively quickly (much quicker than the length of time Gambit's been busted), he improved greatly.
    The one you are talking about who was changed was 3* thanos. We are talking about 5* Thanos whose numbers weren't changed.

    I see many forumites and users here posting who "threatened to quit the game" if the OML nerf wasn't reversed. If you don't get the sarcasm in their posts then I don't know what to say.

    Nerf Thanos and I'd be fine with Gambit nerf (Note - do not have have a Gambit but soon going to champ Thanos). Anyways this is moot since Gambit won't be getting a nerf. Thanos is anyways first in line. Some whale thinks Hawkeye is OP.

    Adapt and survive IMO.
    It's not about "surviving" it's about creating a unique and diverse gaming experience for everyone.  When you just about HAVE to have Gambit to counter Gambit the meta gets old and tired REALLY quickly.  We've spent years building diverse 5* rosters only to have most of them sent off to pasture in favor of the one new OP character that is all but required to successfully compete at the highest level.

    What is this Diverse 5 list that is getting played? At the highest level are more characters viable in pvp?  In pve the fast clearing team will always be played for optimization. But in pvp the only thing I was seeing before gambit was blackbolt and some variation of these two thanos/panther hawkeye/coluson  teams.

    Like I've said before since gambit dropped I've seen gambit+ an array of characters. Yes gambit is the common factor but its still way more varied than it was before he dropped. 


    So i'm confused, because it beginning to sound like gambit is actually only a problem for the tip top upper echelon of players with maxed  or high level 5's. 

       
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,241 Chairperson of the Boards
    In one of the other Gambit threads I suggested that if they just changed his passive (3&5* Gambits) to only generate the AP when he's in front it would:

    1) Eliminate Gambat (3&5*)
    2) Make his AP generation have a drawback / requirement.

    That would open up game play options when facing him in enemy teams and make him trickier to use on your own team.

    KGB
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,299 Chairperson of the Boards
    I would actually say it isn't really a nerf.  What it is is a fix that is required.   Changing his black power to make it so no red or purple active powers can be fired while he is alive simply stops the ridiculous 0/0/5 gambit.  It doesn't break the actual character himself at all since he would still function the same fully covered.  

    What they will probably end up doing is nerfing spidergwen, ....who nobody ever really used until goonbit.  

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