Update to Versus Tournament Progression Rewards (11/15/17)

CNash

I'm bitterly disappointed by this announcement. After feeling severely burnt-out in PVE recently, I leapt into the new wins-based PVP season to try and ease my boredom and still have fun with this game. Surprise - I had a ton of fun with a game mode I'd long since written off. No more stressing out over being hit and losing progression! No more tedious time calculations - "if I shield at X moment for Y minutes then I can hit Z people and hopefully not get dogpiled and drop back to 500!" No more "575 and out" - 40 wins, while excessive, was nonetheless achievable for me, for the first time in a long while. I didn't feel like I had to join secret LINE clubs just to win 4-star covers any more. And above all else: no more cryptic baking terminology! Take your cupcakes and shove them up your tinykitty!

Somehow, the prevailing attitude on the forum - "ding dong the witch is dead" - just makes me feel even worse....

The rockett

So after talking to some long time players, this game is about 1490 days old.  Point PVP has been here since it started.   You had 2 tests of Win based and 1 season. So call it 38 days for Win based PVP and 1452 or Point Based PVP. If you expect a whole sale change that was in the game since day 1 and not have people upset about it, I don't know what to say.  

bOmbast

Daiches said:

Daiches said:

So.. is CP back in progression? Because that was the major flaw of win based.

Never mind. Discord answered it. God forbid we get a straight answer from the official communication on the official channel when we can get it from a dev in some podcast fan channel

So, is it back in progression or not? 

Felessa

Well, I liked the win system, but thought 40 wins was very hight too... but comeback to the masochism of gain/loss progression points wasn't exactly what I expected...

Last season I reached the 4* cover in Versus for the first time ever... and it was wonderful! And I did it in 4 events. Now? No more 4* covers from Versus like it used to be... less rewards overall... and no more variety of characters to fight/use too. I just really hope that a better solution is found next season.

Phillipes

Im very glad with this change. All of you fellow co-players who liked 40 wins system are cell phone players for sure. Im Steam user and wins system was absolutely awfull. I played 16 games to achieve CPs and quit. Why? Beside DDQ and PVE, I didnt have spared 3+ hours for playing to 40 wins, so no 4* covers for me.

Yes, point system is stresfull, but atleas Im able to achieve 900 points in 1,5 - 2 hours.

bOmbast

Felessa said:

Well, I liked the win system, but thought 40 wins was very hight too... but comeback to the masochism of gain/loss progression points wasn't exactly what I expected...

Last season I reached the 4* cover in Versus for the first time ever... and it was wonderful! And I did it in 4 events. Now? No more 4* covers from Versus like it used to be... less rewards overall... and no more variety of characters to fight/use too. I just really hope that a better solution is found next season.

If your signature is to be believed, you got 33 champed 4* characters.
Of course you can reach 900 points. Probably on just 1-2 shields. 

acescracked

sh81 said:

So now MPQ is tailored completely to 5* players.  Both PVP and PVE have been bent to their will.

I wonder what the participation metrics will look like over the next season when the average player looks at either game mode and realises they have very little to play for?

Of course, so long as the money keeps coming in MPQ wont care, will they?

This move is clearly financially driven.  They have reverted right back to what the spenders want.

If it wasnt, they wouldnt have made this move.

They would have adjusted the new system to be more accommodating, not thrown it out completely.

Two things people said (of all levels), consistently, would help:
1) CP back in progression
2) Open up MMR

If this was a game design choice, these points would have been attempted.

Instead, going right back to the PVP of old, its clear its all about the $$$.


Welcome to MPQ, where 5* or whale players rule, and everyone else gets dumped on.


I find this reversal to be the most distasteful thing the game has done in my 1013 days playing.

At least there is no pretending any more, we know what they are about.



I had reached a nice point with the game where I was very happy playing, and felt it was worth what time I put into it.  Now, honestly, I have to give that some serious thought.

You need to probably take a break from the game. It's stressing you out too much. You are addicted to it too, not healthy.

tiomono

Yay now we are back to the players that put in about 3 hours of effort and pretty minimal shielding in a 2 and a half day event taking all the rewards. Players that actually play the game from event start are back to being dumped on and not getting anything for their efforts. 

I hope they try something else soon because purely point based is a stupid system that seems to only reward high end alliances that hold each other's hands to all get their rewards while smashing everyone else that "do not know how to play".

@brigby please do not let the devs just walk away from this one. It' obvious they see a flaw in point based or they would not of attemped a change. There has to be some kind of change that actually rewards players that enjoy the game and play from event start, while still letting the high end players get their goodies.

Bowgentle

BlackBoltRocks said:

Hmm. Good and bad for me.

The good thing about wins-based progression: the flexibility. Ever since CP was introduced in PvP, I've only played to 575 points (16 wins in the wins-based system). Anything else is a bonus. With the wins-based system, I have 36 hours to get 16 wins, which is easily done. I don't have to worry about shields or anything, because I don't care about placement. And of course, no need to worry about any retaliations. No more rushing a match that would get me to 575 points without worrying in the back of my mind if I had been/was being attacked.

The bad thing about wins-based progression: the slog. I note that I can usually hit 575 points with 12-14 wins. In the BoP event, I surpassed 575 points in 12 wins; my 16th win took me past 700. So I'm actually playing more matches for the same reward(s), albeit that reward is guaranteed and I don't have to worry about retals. Although, I usually only get retaliations once I cross the 600 mark.

Likewise for SHIELD simulator: I didn't get the Rogue cover, simply because I couldn't be bothered to grind out 74 wins. I hit 20+ wins; that took me past 1200 points. In the points-based system, I would gladly go for the remaining 800 points, but I sure as hell am not going for another 50 wins in the wins-based system. 74 wins is ridiculous.

So, on the whole, a points-based system would be more beneficial for me (especially in SHIELD simulator!). I'll just miss the freedom to play PvP throughout the day, slowly accumulating 16 wins as and when I want to.

The roster in your signature shows a champed Thanos and Surfer.
How in the WORLD do you have to "rush to 575"?
With those 2 you get 900 just for showing up, no shields needed.

Phaentom

@Brigby have you ever played a game called, wwechampions? The system they have for versus would be great in MpQ. You should check it out.

CrookedKnight

So I guess I'm not the only one who quit the game after the switch, then.

[Deleted User]

acescracked said:

sh81 said:

So now MPQ is tailored completely to 5* players.  Both PVP and PVE have been bent to their will.

I wonder what the participation metrics will look like over the next season when the average player looks at either game mode and realises they have very little to play for?

Of course, so long as the money keeps coming in MPQ wont care, will they?

This move is clearly financially driven.  They have reverted right back to what the spenders want.

If it wasnt, they wouldnt have made this move.

They would have adjusted the new system to be more accommodating, not thrown it out completely.

Two things people said (of all levels), consistently, would help:
1) CP back in progression
2) Open up MMR

If this was a game design choice, these points would have been attempted.

Instead, going right back to the PVP of old, its clear its all about the $$$.


Welcome to MPQ, where 5* or whale players rule, and everyone else gets dumped on.


I find this reversal to be the most distasteful thing the game has done in my 1013 days playing.

At least there is no pretending any more, we know what they are about.



I had reached a nice point with the game where I was very happy playing, and felt it was worth what time I put into it.  Now, honestly, I have to give that some serious thought.

You need to probably take a break from the game. It's stressing you out too much. You are addicted to it too, not healthy.

Im not stressed at all, Im disappointed.

Im not addicted at all.  In fact over the last season or so I have dialled back my play considerably.

I had arrived at a place where the game was fun again.  And rewarding for the effort I put in.

Now its not.

Now it is seriously at a point of "should I even bother?".

Not just because of the change, but because of what it says about MPQs attitude to its players.  

bOmbast

Don't take this the wrong way, but I can't understand how this is bad for players with solid 4* rosters (like you, sh81)?

To my dying day, I'll claim that getting the 4* cover at 900 is NOT hard for anyone with 1-2 boosted 4* champs. You don't need Line cooperation (that's mostly useful getting from 900 to 1200 an above), you just need a minimum of timing and know-how (which a lot of people here will be happy to share). I have 33, and have scoring above 900 in every event since I champed my first 4* exactly a year ago.  

Best of all, you can do it in half the amount of matches. 

If you're hell bent on never spending HP on a single shield ever, fair enough. But 1 or 2 should be more than enough. 

[Deleted User]

In my experience it has always been hell to get to the 900, and ultimately not worth the effort.

And its not because Im an idiot who cannot work out I need to hit high point nodes.

Its because I cant find high point nodes.  Its very rare to find the matches to make the progress.

Which means swimming in 38 point nodes, getting hit, up - down - up - down, shield to preserve place, unshield to take a match later and get knocked back again...

broll

@Brigby

So the biggest takeaway for the devs IMO is can they learn from this mistake and actually listen to the feedback/complaints from the tests?  0 changes were made between the 3 tests and pushing this despite the 3 obvious and loud complaints never changing:

• CP move to placement is bad.
• Win based makes 5* play much harder.
• 40 wins is probably too high (especially the more developed the roster is)

Instead of making any attempt to fix any of these you pushed forward seemingly blindly.  As a result:

1. You make veteran players very mad by ruining a season of PvP for them and showing that they were ignored.
2. You then make the majority of other players mad by giving them a system that is much better for them and take it away after just one season.

The net is you made the majority of the player base angry, the only real exception are players that ignore or don't care about PvP.  100% of that anger could have been avoided by listening to the very loud feedback and doing more tweaks/tests before going to a full season.

I think this was a last straw for me.  I've done VIP every single month since it was announced with an unbroken streak.  I've got better places to spend my money then people that don't listen to loud feedback and make huge logical gaps...

Phinatic85

bOmbast said:

Don't take this the wrong way, but I can't understand how this is bad for players with solid 4* rosters (like you, sh81)?

To my dying day, I'll claim that getting the 4* cover at 900 is NOT hard for anyone with 1-2 boosted 4* champs. You don't need Line cooperation (that's mostly useful getting from 900 to 1200 an above), you just need a minimum of timing and know-how (which a lot of people here will be happy to share). I have 33, and have scoring above 900 in every event since I champed my first 4* exactly a year ago.  

Best of all, you can do it in half the amount of matches. 

If you're hell bent on never spending HP on a single shield ever, fair enough. But 1 or 2 should be more than enough. 

I agree - my 4* roster was strong enough to consistently get to 900 and I'd pair them with unfinished 5*'s to do so. I'd do this with half the effort. This past season, I hardly passed the 40 wins, and for the first time in forever, my 10k+ season score meant **** as I wasn't even close to the top placement reward. Don't even get me started on sim, where I got to 2000 in less than half the wins requirement. This game turned into a chore, and I don't have that ridiculous amount of time to meet those thresholds- if I wanted to spend that time, I'd play PVE and grind to death. Thresholds were too high and defensive wins not counting for any wins felt even more disheartening. If no change, would've retired, but now feel hopeful again.

The rockett

sh81 said:

In my experience it has always been hell to get to the 900, and ultimately not worth the effort.

And its not because Im an idiot who cannot work out I need to hit high point nodes.

Its because I cant find high point nodes.  Its very rare to find the matches to make the progress.

Which means swimming in 38 point nodes, getting hit, up - down - up - down, shield to preserve place, unshield to take a match later and get knocked back again...

I wish you would have Line so I could have a good conversion with you and help you out.  While I do disagree with some of the things you say, I think you are a good person and would like to help you out.  Not saying use Line with rooms and stuff, but as guideance on what to do and what to look for.  That's how a lot of us Vets learned, Not here on the forums.    It is such a better avenue of communications.  

bOmbast

sh81 said:

In my experience it has always been hell to get to the 900, and ultimately not worth the effort.

And its not because Im an idiot who cannot work out I need to hit high point nodes.

Its because I cant find high point nodes.  Its very rare to find the matches to make the progress.

Which means swimming in 38 point nodes, getting hit, up - down - up - down, shield to preserve place, unshield to take a match later and get knocked back again...

Not my experience, but I've developed my "routine", of course: Climb casually to ~600, which is my floating point (yours should be similar), to regen health packs and line up a few good targets. Then climb as quickly as I can (use boosts), as high as I can, before I start taking many hits. Usually this is well above 800, sometimes even 900 can be reached. Trying to find targets well before my shield is about to expire. Hop (with boosts for speed). Don't be out for more than 6-7 minutes. Your team and the opponent should give you a hint how long it'll take. If you can do two in 7 minutes, do two and not three.   

I ususally do my climb to first shield somewhere between 20-36 hours into the event. Never towards the end, when the zombie horde is out. 

Not saying this will work for everyone, but it has for me as a 4* player. 

RayElwood

This is hugely disappointing to me. I finally felt like I could get the rewards that I wanted on my own schedule without having to worry about getting blasted back down if I took a day off. This was especially true in the Simulator, where I play in fits and spurts. I understand that you won't be able to please everyone, but why not just add more rewards and/or lower the amount of wins that it takes to get them? Again, I am extremely disappointed.

[Deleted User]

The rockett said:

sh81 said:

In my experience it has always been hell to get to the 900, and ultimately not worth the effort.

And its not because Im an idiot who cannot work out I need to hit high point nodes.

Its because I cant find high point nodes.  Its very rare to find the matches to make the progress.

Which means swimming in 38 point nodes, getting hit, up - down - up - down, shield to preserve place, unshield to take a match later and get knocked back again...

I wish you would have Line so I could have a good conversion with you and help you out.  While I do disagree with some of the things you say, I think you are a good person and would like to help you out.  Not saying use Line with rooms and stuff, but as guideance on what to do and what to look for.  That's how a lot of us Vets learned, Not here on the forums.    It is such a better avenue of communications.  

Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment.  I wont be using line any time, you are welcome to mail me here if you like.

Ive had good advice from some "pro's" here before, great guys and it did help.

The fact is though, no matter what I change, I just dont get these mythical climbs people talk about.

For some reason 900 is an absolute monster to get too, its expensive and its stressful, and I certainly didnt do it in less than 20 matches or with any relative ease.

bOmbast said:

sh81 said:

In my experience it has always been hell to get to the 900, and ultimately not worth the effort.

And its not because Im an idiot who cannot work out I need to hit high point nodes.

Its because I cant find high point nodes.  Its very rare to find the matches to make the progress.

Which means swimming in 38 point nodes, getting hit, up - down - up - down, shield to preserve place, unshield to take a match later and get knocked back again...

Not my experience, but I've developed my "routine", of course: Climb casually to ~600, which is my floating point (yours should be similar), to regen health packs and line up a few good targets. Then climb as quickly as I can (use boosts), as high as I can, before I start taking many hits. Usually this is well above 800, sometimes even 900 can be reached. Trying to find targets well before my shield is about to expire. Hop (with boosts for speed). Don't be out for more than 6-7 minutes. Your team and the opponent should give you a hint how long it'll take. If you can do two in 7 minutes, do two and not three.   

I ususally do my climb to first shield somewhere between 20-36 hours into the event. Never towards the end, when the zombie horde is out. 

Not saying this will work for everyone, but it has for me as a 4* player. 

First run Id get to maybe 650 before I ran out of healthpacks (often less).  I cant float there though, because I get knocked back - sometimes into the 400s.  So I have to shield.

I line up nodes of as much value as I can.  Often spending a few thousand iso to do so.

By the time the first one is done the others have mysteriously changed values.  Sometimes to the degree they arent worth taking on.  So Im skipping more looking for something to earn points off of.  This ends up in a catch 22 situation of do I shield again or do I chase points?

Usually it ends up being the case that I win some, lose some while winning, and shield.

I can go through this twice just to get to the 750-800 range.  And what to do then?  Chase 900 or get a couple of wins and shield (again!) and play it safe?

Most of this is on 38-45 point nodes (with loses the average is probably in the 20s).  Very few 50+.  So its not even like I can say Im making it in a minor amount of matches.

Genuinely, the 40 match target wasnt really a stretch compared to my usual experience.

The primary driver behind my struggling is the lack of points on offer in matches.  I dont know if its an MMR deadspot or what it is, but I have to scrape points - I dont get a run of juicy targets to make gains on and shield.

Its expensive, stressful, and hugely dis spiriting.  To the point Im not even sure I can face taking it on in the new season.

The 40 matches was long, I dont argue.  BUT ever match was a step forward.  And because no points mattered I could just play the matches that were queued (with much more variety in opponent).  I enjoyed both of these aspects a huge amount.