Update to Versus Tournament Progression Rewards (11/15/17)

acescracked

fmftint said:

Joe_Smoke said:
   Now we're back to risking our time and HP

And this is the point,  sure you were putting in time to get 40 wins but if you aren't using shield you aren't  putting in  money.  As I explained on page 2 # = $ so point based progression is back

This myth has been debunked for years. D3 has said many times revenue from shields is tiny. To hit 900 or 1200 players used very little HP and would win it back either in the event itself or pve.

Now the players who put up the crazy scores do burn alot of shields but that's the same in both points & win based PvP.

Pinko_McFly

Thanks for the change back.
2 approaches I would suggest.
1. Hybrid approach, 4* cover at 900 points/XXX wins. CP at 1.2 only. Those cranking out wins may realize 1.2 is not that far away once they put in some effort.
2. Slowly move the 10 CP up to 800 points.3 events at 650… 3 events at 725… then to 800. The 575 and out crowd will slowly find that the 900 is much more attainable once there are more targets climbing higher.

acescracked

mahman10 said:

Man now I gotta try and maneuver the shield hop game, lose 100 points after a match at 875, and spend hp on shields, and spend hp on shields, and spend hp on shields, and spend hp on shields, and spend hp on shields.

I liked the 40 wins, was stress free to knock it out over a couple of days.

Maybe your roster only can handle a single match boosted hop at 875? Once you develop it further you can stay out more at that point level.

wymtime

Here is some of the reality of the win based season.  Many players who were only going to the 10CP were still only going to the 10CP.  They were not engaged to play to 40 wins and get the 4* progression.  Higher end 5* players were dropping down to CL 5-7 to take top placement from other players for the CP.  simulator play probably went way down as just seeing the number of wins for a 4* looked like it would be a slog.
data will also show many players who were scoring high 1200+ were not only missing out on 15CP but were also missing out on the 4* character.
the win based system benefited players who were actually trying to get the 4* cover but were losing points and losing the cover and it was a bad experience.  Having it for a season will probably show this population is actually a lot smaller then they thought as players who were only playing for the 10 CP before were not playing significantly more.

win based progression has its merits and has its flaws.  They now have a full season worth of data to look at and see what adjustments can be made to make more players receive more rewards.  The system will change again and as people who were happy with the win based system relax and wait a season or 2 and they will bring something else back.  I just ask when it does come out look at all sides of how it will work.

Jarvind

While I seriously doubt any of the forum complaints precipitated this change and it was almost certainly based on usage metrics, I'm still stoked to see this awful system go away.

If you guys want to bring it back, max progression needs to be like, 25 wins max. Otherwise you're just forcing people to hit weak, low-scoring teams in order to pad their win count, which sucks for everyone.

MirrorKnight

No, no, no....
Warning: Tiny rant below.
rant.start();
I enjoy pvp WAY more with wins progression.
I could start early and take my time trying to get progression rewards, and seeing I'd been attacked 10 times in the 5 minutes since I'd put down my phone to actually function in society no longer filled me with sorrow and dread...
And, because you had to start earlier to get progression, and because defence was less important, we could actually occasionally see team variety!

Heaven forbid earning anything in this game actually takes *gasp* time!
If spending time playing is so terrible, then don't.

rant.end();

j0nats

for those grinders lamenting the loss of 40 win progression, there is still a way to get a guaranteed 4*:  PVE.  no stress there.  and if ur willing to grind so many wins... you can  multi-tap PVE nodes to get top placement.

Punisher5784

I didnt hate win-based but I didn't love it.. what I do hate is trying to reach 900 pts and getting beat down within seconds. That's the biggest issue in PvP, so why couldn't the system be that I lose placement pts but progression points are safe? Everyone wins

j0nats

acescracked said:

fmftint said:

Joe_Smoke said:
   Now we're back to risking our time and HP

And this is the point,  sure you were putting in time to get 40 wins but if you aren't using shield you aren't  putting in  money.  As I explained on page 2 # = $ so point based progression is back

This myth has been debunked for years. D3 has said many times revenue from shields is tiny. To hit 900 or 1200 players used very little HP and would win it back either in the event itself or pve.

Now the players who put up the crazy scores do burn alot of shields but that's the same in both points & win based PvP.

but at least they'd get 15cp for all their trouble.

  with cp in placement you could spend so much time and hero points on #, but still miss out on the CP

Beta-Ray Bill

Thank god we don’t have to play all day every day to earn our stuff again

VASH1456

This is lame. The win system was perfect. What they mean is since its based on wins and not points,a lot less players quit spending money for shields. All about cash,not about the players. Same thing with that "shield training"event that only caters to the whales who drop a cool $1000 to get the 13 covers for the new character tgat dropped that day. Lmao.

shardwick

Justice Jacks said:

shardwick said:

Ok, so let me get this straight, you completely destroyed pve with the 5* node which only encouraged 5* players to flood CL7 which killed my enjoyment of pve. But then you went with a win based pvp system that overall didn't really impact my usual amount of wins, maybe I played a little more, but in exchange I got a stress free game and more rewards. So I wasn't enjoying pve anymore but I actually was enjoying pvp a lot more so at least I had that. And now the pvp changes are rolled back so not only will pve suck to play for me but pvp will too? Umm, yay?

Um, didn't they just substantially reduce the PVE scores available in CL7 exactly because they were encouraging 5* rosters into CL8 and 9?

They reduced the points but the max difficulty on the 5* node in CL7 is still set at 355 as per the in game preview for Hearts of Darkness.

GronkSmash

This is unfortunate. Back to burning health packs and shields just to hit 900 and the begrudgingly impossible climb to 2000 in shield simulator. 

BlackBoltRocks

Hmm. Good and bad for me.

The good thing about wins-based progression: the flexibility. Ever since CP was introduced in PvP, I've only played to 575 points (16 wins in the wins-based system). Anything else is a bonus. With the wins-based system, I have 36 hours to get 16 wins, which is easily done. I don't have to worry about shields or anything, because I don't care about placement. And of course, no need to worry about any retaliations. No more rushing a match that would get me to 575 points without worrying in the back of my mind if I had been/was being attacked.

The bad thing about wins-based progression: the slog. I note that I can usually hit 575 points with 12-14 wins. In the BoP event, I surpassed 575 points in 12 wins; my 16th win took me past 700. So I'm actually playing more matches for the same reward(s), albeit that reward is guaranteed and I don't have to worry about retals. Although, I usually only get retaliations once I cross the 600 mark.

Likewise for SHIELD simulator: I didn't get the Rogue cover, simply because I couldn't be bothered to grind out 74 wins. I hit 20+ wins; that took me past 1200 points. In the points-based system, I would gladly go for the remaining 800 points, but I sure as hell am not going for another 50 wins in the wins-based system. 74 wins is ridiculous.

So, on the whole, a points-based system would be more beneficial for me (especially in SHIELD simulator!). I'll just miss the freedom to play PvP throughout the day, slowly accumulating 16 wins as and when I want to.

GronkSmash

Couldn't you just leave the playlist and option to the players. Have some times or SCL levels be points and others wins

Red_phoenixx

Gronk Smash said:

Couldn't you just leave the playlist and option to the players. Have some times or SCL levels be points and others wins

Make the top rewards even higher yet for the points brackets. The true hardcore players who likely earn 4000 plus points anyways wouldn't have a problem, if they're rewarded for the effort. Keep a second set that's for point progression players who still enjoy PvP,  just not the slaughter house it can be. I spent money on shields with both, but keeping the game fun=happy people, who don't mind spending money to contribute to the game they love. 

Roland113

I try not to complain on here, I get it, you can't please everyone.  Nonetheless, I actually enjoyed PvP last season and got my first heroic ten pack ever in my 700 days.  I really won't be playing much next season.  It's not a boycott but just referring to my previous play style.  I just don't have the energy to care.  If it's going to be better for the long term health of the game then yay.  I'm personally pretty demoralized by the reversal.

Chrono_Tata

I for one was this close to quitting the game, so I'm glad they are changing it back. I sympathise with less strong players who prefer the system but it was extremely toxic to veteran players. I hope they come up with a system that improves or at the very least don't diminish the PvP experience for the majority of players, because the 40-win one definitely wasn't it 

Phumade

mega ghost said:

I was happy with the win-based system because I hated that I could move backwards in progression by getting attacked. But I also felt that the threshold they set for rewards in the win-based system created a tedious slog.

@Brigby Wouldn't a simple solution (that would make everyone happy) be to use a points-based system, but separate the points earned for placement from the points earned for progression? The placement score can go up and down based on how many points you earn with a win and how many you lose from being attacked, but the progression score would never hemorrhage points and only move forwards. Is there any reason this wouldn't work?

How is that not different than the current wins based progression?

In the wins based season,  placement results went up and down based on wins, losses, and shields.

Progression scores never hemorrhaged points and only moved forward.  We called those points matches won.

Phumade

ZeiramMR said:

SangFroid said:

Carnage_78 said:

@Brigby Disappointed with the reversal.  

Once again, the decisions are made to favor only one type of player that are very vocal, yes, but not representative of the entire player base.

I think you actually have it wrong here. D3 clearly looked at the numbers and was a big loss for them either financially or in terms of player engagement. If it was a small vocal minority on the forums etc..you can bet that there would be no roll back. 

I suspect that running Lightning Rounds opposite more than half of the season didn't help the engagement numbers for Win-based either.

This part was definitely true. I would have killed for a win counter in sakaar arena. I'm sure I either equaled or surpassed my pvp win totals with the double arena seasons.