Update to Versus Tournament Progression Rewards (11/15/17)

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Comments

  • alaeth
    alaeth Posts: 446 Mover and Shaker
    This'll get buried but...

    Thank you.  Thank you for listening to your players.

    I'm sorry that this change (back) doesn't work for everyone.  I hope the next changes are done in MODERATION.

    I think the biggest reason for the backlash to wins-based-progression is due to two major changes: wins-based, and moving CP to placement.
  • shartattack
    shartattack Posts: 370 Mover and Shaker
    tiomono said:
    Yay now we are back to the players that put in about 3 hours of effort and pretty minimal shielding in a 2 and a half day event taking all the rewards. Players that actually play the game from event start are back to being dumped on and not getting anything for their efforts. 

    I hope they try something else soon because purely point based is a stupid system that seems to only reward high end alliances that hold each other's hands to all get their rewards while smashing everyone else that "do not know how to play".



    taking all the rewards?  all the good awards are progression again now.

    that was what was happening with wins-based.  if you weren't in a top alliance, you weren't sniffing t10, where the precious cp was 5* players filled t10 in cl5.  that would seriously restrict anyone hoping to advance their roster.  Now, anyone willing to spend 225-300 hp can get a 4* and those last 15 cp.
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    Like clockwork, here we go again with the ignorant complaints that "higher level" rosters shouldn't have their voices heard at all.......as if having a higher level roster isn't your end game. You don't need to be a whale to have 5-star rosters, or a well developed 4-star roster. Your roster capability improves as you champ more characters, and thus your MMR gives you tougher matches. In the points-based system, you are rewarded for this by being given higher point value matches against tougher opponents, and thus can achieve progression goals quicker. In the wins-based system, you are punished for this by being forced to slog through matches of this same MMR for nothing more than a mere +1 to your win total. You gaming MMR by tanking points to stay at lower point levels and pick off 3-stars/unboosted 4s wasn't the way the system intended you to play through it. You want to be rewarded for picking on the kids playing in the sandbox, because a +1 would mean the same regardless of who you get it against. Fighting a tougher opponent should be worth more than beating up on someone who's not even close to your level, and there's no logic you can conjure up to deny that. 

    PVP represents the highest level that this game can be played at. It can be a proving ground, a training arena, or a testing site for roster combinations, but the one thing it was NEVER meant to be was charity. I will gladly admit that it is not intuitive whatsover, and not conducive to those who don't want to spend on shields, but at some point you must have realized that they weren't going to stay happy with the mass numbers of people who no longer cared about shielding. Shielding was literally the only aspect of PVP that generated any kind of revenue for them, and they designed a play system where an overwhelming majority of it's participants could completely ignore it. There was nothing that created a competitive desire to gain an edge over people when everyone could just casually play when they wanted over the 2 days and still get all the intended rewards minus the final CP. 

    Instead of whining every time you get hit, and giving up complaining that it's too hard because you actually have to use some strategy now, LEARN from the experience. Take note of what point levels you see certain teams, and what point levels you stop seeing certain teams. Take note of how long you can go unshielded at certain point levels before someone hits you, what kinds of characters you're using when you take the most hits, how frequently hits may come. On the other side, what kinds of teams are people largely avoiding when you use them? What level of points are you "safe" at when you're not using an A-team? When you ARE using an A-team? At what point do the 40+ point matches start to go away, how much time is left when you see the most high-point matches, etc......There is quite a wealth of knowledge to be gained if you take the time to account for it, and I assure you it will make you a better player. Knowing how to do a double-hop against boosted-4 star characters in 5 minutes or less comes in pretty handy when you're competing in PVE with rosters that can do their clears in 30-45 minutes. That's not your style, and you want to be able to just mindlessly charge through whoever you're capable of beating 40 times and get your rewards, fine, but PVP was never meant to reward people who throw strategy out the window. You got a taste of what it's like to be rewarded for it and now you feel the need to get on a soapbox. 

    I get that this gates off a lot of things from 3* star players and those that are getting into the 4* transition, but they were gated from all of us when we were at your level. You build your 4-star roster with PVE progression/placement rewards, CP/LT pulls, and heroics/event tokens. Not being able to get 1 4-star cover now from PVP isn't going to hamper your ability to do that. Keep champing your 4s, you'll start to have more boosted characters, and you will be able to be more competitive, score higher, and take less hits because less people are capable of messing with you. It's SUPPOSED to get easier as you level up, not harder. 
    Exactly this! Do a little editing for length and this should be stickied!
  • shartattack
    shartattack Posts: 370 Mover and Shaker
    CNash said:


    The problem is that this knowledge is, quite frankly, *tinykitty*. It's a catalogue of how not to play the game as it was intended, and instead obsess over precisely hitting the right targets at exactly the right moments for maximum gain. The fact that this kind of play style is necessary now to get the top PVP rewards just shows how broken the classic PVP progression reward system is. Your "knowledge" depends on the devs being happy to let this system remain broken for an extended time.

    Also, patronizing other players is not likely to make them follow your advice. You come off as a smug, elitist jerk.


    The way the game was intended,  was attack targets and then shield to protect yourself.  That's it.  The system was working as intended.  You are talking about placement.  Anyone with some boosted 4s and 300hp can get the top reward.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    shartattack said:
    tiomono said:
    Yay now we are back to the players that put in about 3 hours of effort and pretty minimal shielding in a 2 and a half day event taking all the rewards. Players that actually play the game from event start are back to being dumped on and not getting anything for their efforts. 

    I hope they try something else soon because purely point based is a stupid system that seems to only reward high end alliances that hold each other's hands to all get their rewards while smashing everyone else that "do not know how to play".



    taking all the rewards?  all the good awards are progression again now.

    that was what was happening with wins-based.  if you weren't in a top alliance, you weren't sniffing t10, where the precious cp was 5* players filled t10 in cl5.  that would seriously restrict anyone hoping to advance their roster.  Now, anyone willing to spend 225-300 hp can get a 4* and those last 15 cp.
    Ok saying all the rewards was a stretch.

    Fact is this system we are going back to for next season is broken in the devs eyes and in much of the player base as well. They would not have tried a "fix" if everything was great and working as intended. Purely point based progression as it currently is, is garbage.

     The fact that the best way to play a 2 and a half day event is to only play for like 6 hours or whatever it takes is stupid.
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    shardwick said:

    Oh if I had a dollar for every comment that I saw about 5* players bragging about going seal clubbing or begging and screaming for the MMR to be opened up so that they could attack 4* players and below. Also, you really shouldn't trash others for wanting to voice their opinion and being on a soapbox as you do the exact same thing. Just sayin'. 
    Would love to hear your thoughts on the matter if you know anything about what the MMR is like at the 5-star level, or what it was like before they finally decided to start boosting 5-star characters. Just sayin'. 
    Oh, you mean the MMR where 5* players always bragged about doing multitaps before win based? It's interesting how quickly 5* players can change their narrative though. One moment it's nothing but an endless sea of 5* players that's a total slog and the next it's seals for days and days where 5*s threaten 4s that they will now hit them countless times. If your MMR was soooooo bad then you wouldn't really ever see 4*s or lower much less have an opportunity to hit them multiple times.
  • Wonko33
    Wonko33 Posts: 985 Critical Contributor
    Why did the 5* roster players feel like they absolutely had to go get that 40 win? Was it for season placement or something? Does it really matter to them to get that 1 extra 4* cover when they already get tons from placements and tokens? Isn't it all about the CP and LT at that point?

    They could have played like they used to, hit high point targets and get good placement, if they do it in 25 matches forget that stupid 4* stop grinding for such a small reward.

  • Jabrony_Geoff
    Jabrony_Geoff Posts: 378 Mover and Shaker
    There was a brilliant post about whale spending huge amounts of money and another whale cheating . 
    Apparently they are upset and have all stopped spending.
    Where did that post go?

    Anyway this is my response to that.

    Hmm, so this is why pvp has gone back to the old system.
    The big spenders have stopped spending so they need the money back used to purchase gold coins to shield hop.
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    Pinko McFly said:
    For everyone saying 'I could jump in and hit 40 wins, whenever I want to', how many of you actually did that for every event? The most I've seen mentioned here is 4 events.
    Even factoring in people not on the forum, I'd guess the game had more of the 900+ scorers drop off than were replaced by people getting 40 wins EVERY event. As the season went on, this divide probably became more obvious.


    I did every single event and never was a chore...neither was 74 wins for SIM either. In fact, it freed up my schedule even more because I wasn't limited to trying to time my PvP rise at just the right time or shield hop when the conditions were just right. 

    PVE is way more time consuming than 40 win pvp.

  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    smkspy said:
    Pinko McFly said:
    For everyone saying 'I could jump in and hit 40 wins, whenever I want to', how many of you actually did that for every event? The most I've seen mentioned here is 4 events.
    Even factoring in people not on the forum, I'd guess the game had more of the 900+ scorers drop off than were replaced by people getting 40 wins EVERY event. As the season went on, this divide probably became more obvious.


    I did every single event and never was a chore...neither was 74 wins for SIM either. In fact, it freed up my schedule even more because I wasn't limited to trying to time my PvP rise at just the right time or shield hop when the conditions were just right. 

    PVE is way more time consuming than 40 win pvp.

    Yeah, I think I finished with 522 wins. Really only had problems with the Strange and Storm events but still got at least 40 wins in each event along with the 74 in shield sim.
  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    CNash said:
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    There is quite a wealth of knowledge to be gained if you take the time to account for it, and I assure you it will make you a better player.

    The problem is that this knowledge is, quite frankly, *tinykitty*. It's a catalogue of how not to play the game as it was intended, and instead obsess over precisely hitting the right targets at exactly the right moments for maximum gain. The fact that this kind of play style is necessary now to get the top PVP rewards just shows how broken the classic PVP progression reward system is. Your "knowledge" depends on the devs being happy to let this system remain broken for an extended time.

    Also, patronizing other players is not likely to make them follow your advice. You come off as a smug, elitist jerk.
    Glad I'm an elitist jerk for pointing out that there's actual value and knowledge to be gained from setbacks. You'll never get better at something if you don't take it seriously and try to learn from it when it doesn't go your way, instead of just phoning it in. If you're going to keep playing regardless, then it's to your benefit to keep improving. Rage quitting every time you get hit isn't going to get you anywhere.  
  • mega ghost
    mega ghost Posts: 1,156 Chairperson of the Boards
    One thing I will say about the win system: if you start playing right as the PvP event opens, you can knock out ~10 wins in a heartbeat, as you'll be playing all seed teams. But if you can't time your play like that, which I could not do in all instances but one or two, you lose all of those seed teams and getting to 40 was like trudging through knee-deep mud.
  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    smkspy said:
    Pinko McFly said:
    For everyone saying 'I could jump in and hit 40 wins, whenever I want to', how many of you actually did that for every event? The most I've seen mentioned here is 4 events.
    Even factoring in people not on the forum, I'd guess the game had more of the 900+ scorers drop off than were replaced by people getting 40 wins EVERY event. As the season went on, this divide probably became more obvious.


    I did every single event and never was a chore...neither was 74 wins for SIM either. In fact, it freed up my schedule even more because I wasn't limited to trying to time my PvP rise at just the right time or shield hop when the conditions were just right. 

    PVE is way more time consuming than 40 win pvp.

    I find that hard to believe when most players that are on the 4-star side of things do their clears around the hour mark. 4 clears each on 10 nodes is 40 wins. I can score 700-800 points in PVP in an hour but it will be WAYYYY less than 40 wins. My roster can't be that much different than yours. 
  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    shardwick said:
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    shardwick said:

    Oh if I had a dollar for every comment that I saw about 5* players bragging about going seal clubbing or begging and screaming for the MMR to be opened up so that they could attack 4* players and below. Also, you really shouldn't trash others for wanting to voice their opinion and being on a soapbox as you do the exact same thing. Just sayin'. 
    Would love to hear your thoughts on the matter if you know anything about what the MMR is like at the 5-star level, or what it was like before they finally decided to start boosting 5-star characters. Just sayin'. 
    Oh, you mean the MMR where 5* players always bragged about doing multitaps before win based? It's interesting how quickly 5* players can change their narrative though. One moment it's nothing but an endless sea of 5* players that's a total slog and the next it's seals for days and days where 5*s threaten 4s that they will now hit them countless times. If your MMR was soooooo bad then you wouldn't really ever see 4*s or lower much less have an opportunity to hit them multiple times.
    Your post points out that you haven't actually experienced it yourself though....
  • zahria
    zahria Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    Thanks to @The Rockett for starting the posts that led to this & @Brigby for bringing this info forward so our voices can be heard.  Change is good sometimes but in this case, it was clear that it wasn't as well received as D3 hoped.  Thanks for taking the time to hear us & hopefully whatever new changes occur will be better received & better for both the newer players & the vets. 
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:....
     The fact that the best way to play a 2 and a half day event is to only play for like 6 hours or whatever it takes is stupid.
    The event is two days to give time flexibility for play and give options on how long you want to play.

    Not force you to play constantly every PvP for 2 days straight. Ever heard of burnout? Yuck! Two hours every 2 days fine by me.

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