Update to Versus Tournament Progression Rewards (11/15/17)

shardwick

PenniesForEveryone said:

shardwick said:

BoyWonder1914 said:

shardwick said:

Oh if I had a dollar for every comment that I saw about 5* players bragging about going seal clubbing or begging and screaming for the MMR to be opened up so that they could attack 4* players and below. Also, you really shouldn't trash others for wanting to voice their opinion and being on a soapbox as you do the exact same thing. Just sayin'. 

Would love to hear your thoughts on the matter if you know anything about what the MMR is like at the 5-star level, or what it was like before they finally decided to start boosting 5-star characters. Just sayin'. 

Oh, you mean the MMR where 5* players always bragged about doing multitaps before win based? It's interesting how quickly 5* players can change their narrative though. One moment it's nothing but an endless sea of 5* players that's a total slog and the next it's seals for days and days where 5*s threaten 4s that they will now hit them countless times. If your MMR was soooooo bad then you wouldn't really ever see 4*s or lower much less have an opportunity to hit them multiple times.

It's clear that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 5* MMR is broken. For the first half of the event all you can queue is other 5* teams. Once you cross some unknown point threshold (typically around 1000 points or so, sometimes more sometimes less) the MMR opens up and you are able to find other targets.....that are much lower and rarely worth more than 20 points - if that. If you continue to climb you eventually open up completely and you can find 2* teams worth like 2 points each that you can club for days. If a 4* team happens to climb over that same 1000 point threshold they will pop up on the 5* radar and can be hit multiple times on a hop, but not until then. Note that this only applies to the point-based system. Under the win-based system MMR almost never opened up because hardly anyone was shielding.

I have no idea what I'm talking about? I start a pvp event as soon as it begins, I do as many seed teams as possible and then I will usually do a couple more fights to get up to 300-400 pts to get the token or hp and then I will stop for a bit. That almost always puts me in 1st or 2nd in my bracket. Within thirty minutes of the event starting 5* players are doing multitaps on me left and right. That's not the second half of the event with 1000+ pts like you said, hell I rarely ever get over 800. And under win based it was the exact same thing with getting hit by a handful of 5* players early on in the event but the only difference was that I wasn't penalized in win based. When I lost points I didn't care because even though I was getting tagged left and right by 5s I was still racking up my wins and getting my rewards. But, hey, maybe you just have a really sucky MMR because your fellow 5s have had no problem finding me.

acescracked

Wonko33 said:

I think researchers should use this thread to make advancements in understanding Stockholm syndrome . 

Exactly!! It's simple, as you develop your roster you get higher point targets and can reach higher progression rewards (900 points) without doing a 40 match death march to a single 4*.

Some have that Stockholm syndrome like you say to wins based PvP.

ArsAryc

Anyone who wants to play a game mode where you can't lose points towards rewards should honestly stick to PvE.  I'm glad they brought back needing to shield and hop in a strategic manner in order to get the higher end PvP rewards, as opposed to just mindlessly slogging through 40 matches.  Bravo!!!

Dotproduct

8rock_MPQ said:

I propose that at the very least players are afforded protection while they are battling so they don’t win a battle to score 30 points only to learn that while in that battle they were attacked twice and lost 35. I play other games that use this system and it works great.

Then people would game the system by just locking themselves in a match. 

WEBGAS

Just played the first PVP with points based rules......15 matches to get 575points and 10cp......then lost 100 points in a few seconds....this way Iwill never be able to get that green Lockjaw cover.

With win based system I had two days to win 40 battles and I would have got it.
You really disappointed me. Feel like a kid who was given his long desired toy and then suddenly someone stole it away

smkspy

acescracked said:

Wonko33 said:

I think researchers should use this thread to make advancements in understanding Stockholm syndrome .  

Some have that Stockholm syndrome like you say to wins based PvP.

I think you have that backwards, brah. 

Bryan Lambert

acescracked said:

Wonko33 said:

I think researchers should use this thread to make advancements in understanding Stockholm syndrome . 

Exactly!! It's simple, as you develop your roster you get higher point targets and can reach higher progression rewards (900 points) without doing a 40 match death march to a single 4*.

Some have that Stockholm syndrome like you say to wins based PvP.

When I had 0 champed 5-stars, I could climb to 575 in one go, using a few health packs and rarely getting hit.

With three revently champed 5-stars, I struggled to 400, losing 100 points along the way, and lost 150 points overnight. 

PvP difficulty and your ability to hit progression targets has nothing to do with the strength of your roster and everything to do with the strength of your roster relative to all the teams you can target and all the reams that can target you.

Competitive PvP players have, because of the rewards they’ve gotten, have stayed in the top half of that range, and have no idea what it’s like to “strengthen your roster” only to find yourself the juicy fish in a pond full of sharks.

PvP sucks for the bottom half of MMR. Win based made that suckage mostly irrelevant to them, but didn’t address the core issue. And now the game’s gonna hand out a pile of five-star champ levels to a bunch of people at the top who I guarantee will still pop up as the only teams I’m allowed to take on with my three 451’s. We can’t roster-build our way to a better PvP experience unless all of you stop building your roster while we catch up. Somehow, I don’t see that happening.

PorkBelly

Bryan Lambert said:

Competitive PvP players have, because of the rewards they’ve gotten, have stayed in the top half of that range, and have no idea what it’s like to “strengthen your roster” only to find yourself the juicy fish in a pond full of sharks.

PvP sucks for the bottom half of MMR. Win based made that suckage mostly irrelevant to them, but didn’t address the core issue. And now the game’s gonna hand out a pile of five-star champ levels to a bunch of people at the top who I guarantee will still pop up as the only teams I’m allowed to take on with my three 451’s. We can’t roster-build our way to a better PvP experience unless all of you stop building your roster while we catch up. Somehow, I don’t see that happening.

As someone who is towards that bottom half of MMR but chats with a lot of people in the top half, the solution is to spend a lot of money.

That seems to be the biggest difference in how we play the game.  And I can't begrudge them a better roster when many of them have spent hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on that process.

Bowgentle

PorkBelly said:

Bryan Lambert said:

Competitive PvP players have, because of the rewards they’ve gotten, have stayed in the top half of that range, and have no idea what it’s like to “strengthen your roster” only to find yourself the juicy fish in a pond full of sharks.

PvP sucks for the bottom half of MMR. Win based made that suckage mostly irrelevant to them, but didn’t address the core issue. And now the game’s gonna hand out a pile of five-star champ levels to a bunch of people at the top who I guarantee will still pop up as the only teams I’m allowed to take on with my three 451’s. We can’t roster-build our way to a better PvP experience unless all of you stop building your roster while we catch up. Somehow, I don’t see that happening.

As someone who is towards that bottom half of MMR but chats with a lot of people in the top half, the solution is to spend a lot of money.

That seems to be the biggest difference in how we play the game.  And I can't begrudge them a better roster when many of them have spent hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on that process.

No.
The solution is to adapt to changes in your MMR once you champ 2 5s.

Your float point will be lower, around 500.
Don't climb to 700 and expect to stay there.

You have to re-learn PVP, as with every transition.

No need to spend more money, but you do need to change up your PVP tactics a little.

Bryan Lambert

Bowgentle said:

Your float point will be lower, around 500.
Don't climb to 700 and expect to stay there.

Except my float point is 250. I apparently can’t expect to climb to 400 and expect to stay there. Which, I think you’ll agree, changes the shielding equation a great deal. Which is my point. Your float point may have been around 500 when you entered a new MMR, but the environment is different now.

Bryan Lambert

What's stopping you from climbing with your boosted 4*s? You'll be invisible to other 5* teams until you break MMR.. Just hit big point targets and make sure your retal node is not worth hitting (because you could just hit it again for more points).

Igave this a try just to see what the matchups were like. My options are: Nova 394 Electra 382 4Thor 380 Winter Soldier 374 Professor X 373 I took Nova and 4Thor in twice - once against a 455 Panthos team. Lucked into blue cascades, won, needed 3 thealth packs, 51 points. Healed everyone, went up against an OML/Daredevil team. Got Daredevil down to 50% health with no damage on anyone else before I wiped, missing out on... 45 points. These were the highest point options available to me after 10 skips. The odds of winning those matches don’t seem good enough to be considered a viable strategy. Perhaps you’re thinking of much higher level champed 4-stars available to people who’ve been hitting 900 an 1200 regularly in PvP?

PorkBelly

Bowgentle said:

No.
The solution is to adapt to changes in your MMR once you champ 2 5s.

Your float point will be lower, around 500.
Don't climb to 700 and expect to stay there.

You have to re-learn PVP, as with every transition.

No need to spend more money, but you do need to change up your PVP tactics a little.

Lol at having at having 500 as your float point when running Phoenix and OML.  Mine hovers around 350.

I'm not complaining about this aspect and I greatly prefer the point based progression vs win based.  It's a free to play game with micro transactions.  I'm not sure why you would contest the idea that spending a lot of money would get you a better roster than someone who spends far less.

Bryan Lambert

OJSP said:

Bryan Lambert said:
Perhaps you’re thinking of much higher level champed 4-stars available to people who’ve been hitting 900 an 1200 regularly in PvP? 

Maybe. Who are your 5*s? You might be better using a combination of 5* and 4* or 3*. Or even, IM40 Thor.. we might need 1 health pack for Thor per match, but that's acceptable against 2 5*s. BTW, it's too late to use invisible teams now.. your defensive team would be the last double 5* or single 5* team you won with.

I knew it was too late to start now - I was just trying it as a proof of concept. My 5’s are OML, Phoenix, Strange, all at 451. 

I do appreciate the “stay invisible by using weaker teams” thing as a piece of advice, but I’m not actually looking for “how to hit 900 with my MMR” tips because that all requires shield-hopping and I don’t have the kind of schedule that’s remotely conducive to that. 

My point, such as it is, is that most of the “advice” handed out around here to people who say how sucky PvP is is “just do what I did a year ago and you’ll be fine”, or blatant misconceptions like “just build your roster and you’ll hit higher point totals”, which is what I originally responded to. Even you and Bow’s advice boil down to “Build your roster, then use your weaker characters so you don’t get hammered” and “Build your roster, then re-learn the system all over again”. Oh, for those h alcyon days when “they punish you for building a roster” was a bad thing. 

Dartmaster01

I only have 2 champed 5s and just climbed all the way to 900 with no shields. So it's doable, pushed to 475 or so and sat there for a few hours for health packs to return. I took a couple attacks that knocked me down to 415 and second push was to 930.( After you hit 700, get to 900 as quick as possible)-This part is key.

 And only took about 16 matches so if they bring back wins system, more than 20 and I'll be done with pvp again
Edit: Only took 20 matches to hit 1200

[Deleted User]

MMR, what a beast huh?

I played through my health packs and got to 670.  I dont need the 4* so I  left it to see what my float point is.  Ive stopped getting hit at 296.

That climb to 670 was probably 20 matches.  I simply could not queue anything over 40 points (literally 2 matches of more than that) and ended up taking a few matches at low 30s because I ran out of 38s as well.

I started the sub sometime after it started, and so there should in theory have been points available.  There just wasnt.

jamesh

This tournament had a new 4* as a placement reward though: those are always a bit more competitive in my experience.

Bowgentle

My God it's good to have the CP back at 1200.
Climbed to 550, floated overnight, then did 480-1350 in an hour today, done, thanks.
I'm guessing that was about 25 matches.
T10 started at 2K.

bOmbast

sh81 said:

MMR, what a beast huh?

I played through my health packs and got to 670.  I dont need the 4* so I  left it to see what my float point is.  Ive stopped getting hit at 296.

That doesn't necessarily mean your floating point is at 300, though. Many of those hits would be from people queueing you up while you were worth a lot.
670 is usually too high for a 4* team to float. Try 550-600 and see how it goes. 

bluewolf

 Here’s a tip to find a float point: look at your placement.  Climb to about 30th place.  Because your points matter less than your relative points in terms of being a target.  You won’t be a big target at that point.

Bowgentle

bluewolf said:

 Here’s a tip to find a float point: look at your placement.  Climb to about 30th place.  Because your points matter less than your relative points in terms of being a target.  You won’t be a big target at that point.

So if I join a bracket as 1 and climb to 300, putting me in the t5, I should expect hits?

Yeah no, this is not how it works. Points are all that matters.