Deadpool's Daily & The 4-Star Transition

XandorXerxes

As someone who opened four (4) 10-packs last season and got zero (0) 4* covers (apparently there's about a 1/6 chance of doing that), I really hate relying on luck of token draws.

I'd really like to hear about how the Developers think casual players fit into a 4* transition. People who can't or otherwise aren't willing to put in 3 hours a day to do PvE, who likely don't frequent the forums and know about strategies to break 1,000 points let alone 1,300, and who can't put in the time to meet the requirements of a competitive alliance. 3* DPD works for them. None of these other new changes do anything to help them to 4*.

As far as the 4* node goes, I think you've honestly just got the wrong idea on it. Jury is still out of course, because Cyclops is silly hard (why did you start with Cyclops, out of curiosity?) - but a 1v1 against a boosted character like that will always come down to luck so long as super-cascades still have the possibility of happening. There's no creating a team strategy, there's no strategy in choosing a team-up (sure, there'd be lots of whales, but whales regens every 10 days and then no one would have them for gauntlet). When I first beat the giant Ragnarok in the prologue with my 1* team, I felt awesome. When my piddly 1-1-2 X-Force (never sold a cover either, that's just my token luck) was actually getting Cyke down in health, I wasn't feeling awesome - I was feeling hopeful, because I had been lucky. When Cyke matched a vertical puple, which dropped in a green 3 match horizontally, I didn't care. When that 3 horizontal tiles fell in and was 3 red tiles that landed adjacent to a lone red tile, I threw my hands up in frustration. Apparently my mistake was allowing Cyclops the ability to make a match 3 on the board. That was the frustrating part. In normal matches this is mitigated because you have other teammates with powers (and more hit points) to compensate. I feel like this match only removed parts that emphasized skill, which means the part that emphasizes luck grows accordingly - and I've already pointed out how well luck goes for people like me.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Roswulf wrote:

I don't think that's true- when DDQ launched, my most covered 3* was a 6-covered Cap. And yet, using almost exclusively 2* characters, I've managed to beat DDQ every day of its existence. Indeed DDQ has been the central tool in transitioning to what is now a very developed 3* roster (more than half fully covered, most of the rest close).

To be honest, you're very much the exception there. The vast majority of players clearing the 3* node (and improving rosters) are ones that are using 3*s to start with. That node is supplementing most player's 3* roster, not creating it. I mean, definitely grats on the skill needed to pull that victory day after day, just know that most players don't do that.

I'm another one who uses 2* for that, and I have helped others in my alliance find 2* teams that will work. The difference is that it is very possible to better cover a 3* when your roster is weak, but the transition to 4* is going to be extremely difficult, given that placing highly in events or getting a lot of PVP points takes a lot of time, effort, luck, and skill, and the DDQ only helps when you already have quite a few covers on the 4*.
I like the PVE progression legendary token--that will help me, personally, and I think many other transitioners. However, my 14 4*s are all languishing in limbo for now. I get that it should be a challenge, but I thought it would be doable with a few health packs (not this one, for me, since I only have green on XFW), but it looks like even my best 4*s are going to be crushed.
Don't get me wrong, I like the improvements, but this one seems like a way for heavily covered 4* players to get better and early transitioners to get frustrated.

mjh

allow TU for legendary token node and all will be forgiven

TheOncomingStorm

dr tinykittylove wrote:

IceIX wrote:

To be honest, you're very much the exception there. The vast majority of players clearing the 3* node (and improving rosters) are ones that are using 3*s to start with. That node is supplementing most player's 3* roster, not creating it. I mean, definitely grats on the skill needed to pull that victory day after day, just know that most players don't do that.

Seriously there aren' t many people doing it with 2*s? It never really struck me as being particularly hard - my noob account went at it with not-quite finished level 60 2*s at first, then fully covered level 70s and didn't have any real problems.

You have to keep in mind most forumites are better and more serious players than most of the player population. I think you would be surprised the number of players that don't even do a full clear in pve. True causal players are the majority of the player base, and they're just not on your level.

Also, you've been on the forums for a long while. Do you really not remember all the threads when dpdq first started of 2* players unable to beat the 3* wave node? In addition, many forumites gave advice to help those players. Advice most players did not access.

Overall, the most important thing to remember is there is huge difference between the 3* and 4* tier that seems to be being ignored here. The 4* is not fully developed yet. Therefore, it is fallacious to compare the 3* transition to the 4* transition as if it is an apples to apples comparison.

The 3* transition used to be much slower prior. Over time as that tier has developed the transition continues to be made relatively easier and easier. However, none of that happened overnight.

I continue to hope that when we have a sufficient number of 4*s, that tier will allow the game to transition to the next logical evolutionary stage--4*s as places rewards.

The hardest part for players that play several hours every day is the waiting for that tier to slowly develop in front of us. Empirically, just looking at the past several months, there has been real progress --lower iso costs, better token odds, 4*s in taco tokens, and that's not even looking at the new dpdq node.

TL; DR: It's easy for people to mock that game doesn't improve, but the facts point otherwise. They also point that the 4* transition will continue to improve in the future.

El Satanno

I'm going to reserve judgment on this until we get at least one more run of it. That in mind, I think it's kind of **** that you get one day to do it. Can we get a little feedback on that, at least? Why make it so time-sensitive? With the challenge presented, you're taking a real risk on having any health packs left for whatever PvP or PvE you're doing if you want to complete it.

I'm another one of those people firmly in 3* play, but largely outside of 4* play. The only useful 4* characters I have are X-Force Wolverine and Nick Fury, and Fury only as recently as last week. (Yes, I have IW at 13 covers, but I did say useful.) I managed to clear the 4* node with a very lucky match. One shot from any of Cyke's powers would pretty much wipe out my 270 X-Force. There's difficult, and then there's 1v1 against a 270 Cyclops. If future matches are going to be this way, I pretty much have zero chance at completing the node. Maybe my 3/5/3 Hulkbuster will do okay, but 3/2/2 Carnage, 5/1/1 Professor X, or even 4/3/4 Thor will most likely get trounced by an opponent of that caliber.

Also, I think Roswulf nailed it early on:

Roswulf wrote:

Traditional DDQ tests you on the quality of your 2* roster, and rewards you with 3*. The new version tests you on the quality of your 4* roster, and rewards you with 4*. That's a fundamental difference.

Omega Red

Glad to see you guys are reviewing this. I think there is a fundamental flaw in the 1 vs. 1 mechanics as it renders the game to depend heavily on board and cascades. Based on roster strenght, if I'm meant to earn the reward I should be able to do it in five tries max, not ten or twenty.

yogi_

Kudos for this post and the communication.

Just this understanding should settle most concerns.

fmftint

Boldbrute wrote:

The only thing that really bothered me about the 4* DDQ was that Ice said he could pull it off with most of his roster. Comparing his roster to my own my weaker 4* weren't too far off of his so I figured it would be challenging but not flat out impossible. I was going in a little too hopeful I think because I saw his roster and thought "his can do it so can mine!" and then my soul was OB and FB into despair.

Yeah well IceIX also had the luxury of using TUs...

Vhailorx

El Satanno wrote:

I'm going to reserve judgment on this until we get at least one more run of it. That in mind, I think it's kind of **** that you get one day to do it. Can we get a little feedback on that, at least? Why make it so time-sensitive? With the challenge presented, you're taking a real risk on having any health packs left for whatever PvP or PvE you're doing if you want to complete it.

I'm another one of those people firmly in 3* play, but largely outside of 4* play. The only useful 4* characters I have are X-Force Wolverine and Nick Fury, and Fury only as recently as last week. (Yes, I have IW at 13 covers, but I did say useful.) I managed to clear the 4* node with a very lucky match. One shot from any of Cyke's powers would pretty much wipe out my 270 X-Force. There's difficult, and then there's 1v1 against a 270 Cyclops. If future matches are going to be this way, I pretty much have zero chance at completing the node. Maybe my 3/5/3 Hulkbuster will do okay, but 3/2/2 Carnage, 5/1/1 Professor X, or even 4/3/4 Thor will most likely get trounced by an opponent of that caliber.

Also, I think Roswulf nailed it early on:

Roswulf wrote:

Traditional DDQ tests you on the quality of your 2* roster, and rewards you with 3*. The new version tests you on the quality of your 4* roster, and rewards you with 4*. That's a fundamental difference.

From Ice's statements, it seems as if the devs don't agree with Roswulf. They seem to feel that ddq tests the strength of your 3* roster and rewards you with 3*s. Without having the same data they see, it's a little hard to argue.

I know that 2* rosters are routinely asked to fight opponents as high as 200+ in the gauntlet. Hell, my trusty old stormneto (+mhawkeye!) team could easily take out enemy nodes as high as 230 without even boosting. So logically, the level 130 opponents in the big enchilada shouldn't be insurmountable for 2* players. Yes, the survival node mechanics can complicate things. But OBW and Human Torch, and even 2* Cap's board control are all very good in survival nodes. And once he got his 3rd power, I would think that bullseye became a useful protect tile producer as well. I would guess that it is doable but not at all easy. Which is exactly what I was hoping for from the 4* node (and didn't get with a 270 cyclops, though we should probably wait for the second run to see if the difficulty is steady).

IceIX

fmftint wrote:

Yeah well IceIX also had the luxury of using TUs...

Which, as I've said elsewhere, I didn't use.

Bishop

I just want to chime in and thank you for the communication effort.

I just want to stress honestly how much I like your game. It has tons going for it. But I find some aspects of your game frustrating and irritating. 4* ddq is a good example of the type of frustration and irritation your game already has on the player. First off this is a game and a game is ment to be fun and entertaining it does that on so many levels but it also feels like it's trying to punish the player as he or she advances or progresses. One step further seems like two steps back a lot of the time. I have nearly a full 3* roster with a few 2*'s for ddq and a juggs.

This is where and how I feel right now with the game. I want so much for it to be whatever it needs to be. I believe any game should have competition it does that, I believe any game should be challenging it does that (a little to well). And this is where I think the game has problems. First you have many things that seem to be a bit to hard or take to long to do (this is frustrating not enjoyable). I think the reward is ok becuase it's simply a matter of probability. You accomplish something now it's time for a lottery type of approach. That's fine to as long as the journey isn't ridiculous to achieve or time consuming this part is what causes frustration on my part. Becuase if it take days and hours of ones time only to get to a lottery to find nothing is a huge let down for time spent. It should be reasonably long and reasonably difficult.

I've found what irritates me...but if all the irritations disappeared from this game you would find new players, less players leaving (or coming and going), more cash flow. Win win for all. Come on guys put aside your list of updates for the next character and let's fix this thing!

Edit: why is everything in this game take so long to do in the first place? It's a puzzle game not an MMO! Can you imagine taking a year to get a pistol in a shooter game like black ops or something similar? Why?

El Satanno

Vhailorx wrote:

From Ice's statements, it seems as if the devs don't agree with Roswulf. They seem to feel that ddq tests the strength of your 3* roster and rewards you with 3*s. Without having the same data they see, it's a little hard to argue.

I know that 2* rosters are routinely asked to fight opponents as high as 200+ in the gauntlet. Hell, my trusty old stormneto (+mhawkeye!) team could easily take out enemy nodes as high as 230 without even boosting. So logically, the level 130 opponents in the big enchilada shouldn't be insurmountable for 2* players. Yes, the survival node mechanics can complicate things. But OBW and Human Torch, and even 2* Cap's board control are all very good in survival nodes. And once he got his 3rd power, I would think that bullseye became a useful protect tile producer as well. I would guess that it is doable but not at all easy. Which is exactly what I was hoping for from the 4* node (and didn't get with a 270 cyclops, though we should probably wait for the second run to see if the difficulty is steady).

I can agree that the devs do seem to have a different view. What strikes me as being off is that you've got a very different dynamic at play because of the formula for the 4* node. Not only in the difference between choice at the 3* and 4* level, but also when it's 1v1 instead of the standard 3v3. One need not look very hard to find characters that quite obviously are not designed to function on their own. At the 4* level we have only 14 characters to choose from, and two immediately spring to the fore: Professor X and Star-Lord. This brings us down to 12 viable choices if we want the player to stand any reasonable chance.

Naturally a more glaring conundrum is the 1v1 format. It doesn't really say much about the strength of your roster when a single cascade can take you completely out of the fight, as many can attest to in the launch of this node. In 3v3 a cascade can ruin your day. Assuming the target for this node is people with under-covered characters, it's hard to say that even a double match is not a possible game-ending situation. That strikes me as more than a bit unfair, or simply not sporting at best.

Again, I'm not waving my hands over my head and running around screaming like many of our fellows here. But the particular pairing chosen for this initial attempt certainly presents itself to dissuade engagement rather than enhance it. Non-maxed characters need not apply.

herm1978

Vhailorx wrote:

El Satanno wrote:

I'm going to reserve judgment on this until we get at least one more run of it. That in mind, I think it's kind of **** that you get one day to do it. Can we get a little feedback on that, at least? Why make it so time-sensitive? With the challenge presented, you're taking a real risk on having any health packs left for whatever PvP or PvE you're doing if you want to complete it.

I'm another one of those people firmly in 3* play, but largely outside of 4* play. The only useful 4* characters I have are X-Force Wolverine and Nick Fury, and Fury only as recently as last week. (Yes, I have IW at 13 covers, but I did say useful.) I managed to clear the 4* node with a very lucky match. One shot from any of Cyke's powers would pretty much wipe out my 270 X-Force. There's difficult, and then there's 1v1 against a 270 Cyclops. If future matches are going to be this way, I pretty much have zero chance at completing the node. Maybe my 3/5/3 Hulkbuster will do okay, but 3/2/2 Carnage, 5/1/1 Professor X, or even 4/3/4 Thor will most likely get trounced by an opponent of that caliber.

Also, I think Roswulf nailed it early on:

Roswulf wrote:

Traditional DDQ tests you on the quality of your 2* roster, and rewards you with 3*. The new version tests you on the quality of your 4* roster, and rewards you with 4*. That's a fundamental difference.

From Ice's statements, it seems as if the devs don't agree with Roswulf. They seem to feel that ddq tests the strength of your 3* roster and rewards you with 3*s. Without having the same data they see, it's a little hard to argue.

I know that 2* rosters are routinely asked to fight opponents as high as 200+ in the gauntlet. Hell, my trusty old stormneto (+mhawkeye!) team could easily take out enemy nodes as high as 230 without even boosting. So logically, the level 130 opponents in the big enchilada shouldn't be insurmountable for 2* players. Yes, the survival node mechanics can complicate things. But OBW and Human Torch, and even 2* Cap's board control are all very good in survival nodes. And once he got his 3rd power, I would think that bullseye became a useful protect tile producer as well. I would guess that it is doable but not at all easy. Which is exactly what I was hoping for from the 4* node (and didn't get with a 270 cyclops, though we should probably wait for the second run to see if the difficulty is steady).

Lets just say that I'd much rather do the original DDQ with 2 stars (I already had a good Punisher that I teamed up with OBW and Hood for a pretty easy time) than the new one. At least then you can experiment with different teams/teamups/boosts. In the new one all I could do was match to the best of my ability and pray to the gods of luck (took me about 10 tries with a 3/3/3 level 166 xf before I got lucky enough). Relying on luck is not fun!

Lemminkäinen

morph3us wrote:

IceIX wrote:

To be honest, you're very much the exception there. The vast majority of players clearing the 3* node (and improving rosters) are ones that are using 3*s to start with. That node is supplementing most player's 3* roster, not creating it. I mean, definitely grats on the skill needed to pull that victory day after day, just know that most players don't do that.

That doesn't actually surprise me too much. The commander of my little Friends In Real Life alliance is a filthy casual (hey there, Commander!), and is stuck in the 2* to 3* transition. He complains quite a bit that he struggles with the Big Enchilada with his maxed 2*s. If you throw some Teisatsu and other hand ninja in there, he folds most of the time, and gives up on the cover for that day.

Tell your commander to use **Thor, **Mags, **Storm. They feed AP into one another extremely efficiently and have easy access to stun and lots of AoE. And Storm's Green clears away Attack Tiles. Once you have 23 green, fire Storm's Green and afterwards you can just blast away powers. Since I started using that team, enemy characters in Big Enchillada have had exactly one turn when non-stunned (the board on the first wave was utterly starved and doombots die too fast). Goons naturally get turns as they are used to collect AP so it's not a proper lockdown.

Lukoil

Emmmm....I always clear ddq quest with my 2* star team (thor, wolvie,black widow). 3*star team (even maxed) are not performing as good as this 2* star team. Black widow blue + pink making all those cd tiles zero harm. First wave - use only blue (when there is 1 turn cd tile on board) and pink. On second wave use all abilities to clear it in one-two turns. 3rd-4th wave repeat 1st-2nd wave scenario.

In the end only blackwidow is damaged (1 health pack). With 3 star team usually all members are damaged. Noew when i leveled cyclop to 166 level i use him instead of thor, but black widow/wovie i will never replace them.
Oh yeah! And use blue/pink +2mana buff

dr tinykittylove

Lemminkäinen wrote:

Tell your commander to use **Thor, **Mags, **Storm. They feed AP into one another extremely efficiently and have easy access to stun and lots of AoE. And Storm's Green clears away Attack Tiles. Once you have 23 green, fire Storm's Green and afterwards you can just blast away powers. Since I started using that team, enemy characters in Big Enchillada have had exactly one turn when non-stunned (the board on the first wave was utterly starved and doombots die too fast). Goons naturally get turns as they are used to collect AP so it's not a proper lockdown.

I've always gone with obw instead of mnmags. Between her recon and cstorm's green, typically waves 2 and 4 never get turns, or if they do, they have something like 0-3ap in all colours anyway. You should have 30ap in all colours when the last wave appears. And no boosts needed to start off.

dr tinykittylove

TheOncomingStorm wrote:

Also, you've been on the forums for a long while. Do you really not remember all the threads when dpdq first started of 2* players unable to beat the 3* wave node? In addition, many forumites gave advice to help those players. Advice most players did not access.

TL; DR: It's easy for people to mock that game doesn't improve, but the facts point otherwise. They also point that the 4* transition will continue to improve in the future.

Now that you mention it, I remember the complaints about the Big E. I juststopped paying attention after the ?th time.

There have been a lot of good changes in the game. I have a positive outlook and no objection to playing guinea pig while they work things out, since they've earned some goodwill..

Unknown

The fundamental reason for the problem most are facing in this 4 stars dpq is it being 1V1. Why is this so? I mean some characters are ment to be support characters like PX, Mr Fantastic are going to take a long time in such a format, unless luck favors you.

This game has so far allowed players to explore synergy between characters, why stop now? Why make them stand alone?

Pylgrim

Yeah, after my negative post in another thread, I kept thinking about it and realised that the fact that the node starred Cyclops, who has two of the most highly damaging powers in 3* land and a third that feeds them (and a TU that helps feed that) against X-Force, a character with only one reliable high-power ability and bottom-of-the-barrel HP among 4*s made the battle much more harder than the average of these 1v1s will be. For example imagine King Pin: he'll be faced by either Daredevil or Spiderman, neither of whom being anywhere as devastating to him as Cyke was to XF.

That said, it's nice to know the devs are listening. Looking forward to the new features that will further increase the 4* flow and hopefully, Iso as well.

Lee T

When DDQ started I had all 3* in the game at the moment bar two. None of them were viable to do anything. I spent three months at least building my roster with Storm/Magneto/Hawkeye.

Those were tough games and I often had to try repeatedly (ninjas), but with the exception of one day (first Spider Man Yellow, first encounter with ninja/muscle IIRC) and three cover I could not compete for (Doc Ock twice and Gamora once), I ended up winning every Big Enchilada I could enter, every day.

Now my old 2* team has been retired to be replaced by the less stressful team LCap/Mohwak/OBW, which still has a 2* in it.

Going from winning regularly the Big Enchilada with a 2* team to what is essentially a luck contest with my 4/1/2 Wolverine X-Force (my best 4*) was a bit jarring to say the least.

Since I have no interest for PVP, the progression PVE is now my only source for legendary token. If the 4* DDQ stay this way my 4* progression will be a long boring grind, that doesn't seem much enticing.

I was about to quit the game when DDQ started and then I stayed. The reason why is that DDQ provides clarity and the possibility to plan ahead your progression. I hope there will be some change for the 4* DDQ to provide the same.