Coming Soon: Character Updates!

Unknown

Re: She-Hulk and Doc Ock no longer affecting countdowns

Does overscaled PvE really need another buff? Does Doc Ock really need to go from niche PvE specialist to Bagtopus ver. 2?

Xenoberyll

More health for all these characters means even longer matches.
Damage nerfed means longer matches too.
Why do you try so hard to make people play 24/7?

Nellyson

You know what....**** your buy back program. When you make changes like this, we should be able to freely change the covers to what we want to fit these changes. My X-Force is at 544 and I was working to make him 553. Took me so bloody long to get there from 535. Now I want to go 355. Give me the freedom to change my covers without buying them or having to wait forever for the covers to appear. If you did this, I would be happy with whatever nerf happens. You're not letting us adapt to the nerf and that's completely unfair.

stevenbrule

I like how the thing most likely to tinykitty everyone off is tucked away in the middle. XF nerf is beyond excessive, given the amount of HP people have purchased for the sole sake of that character, not to mention the increased health coming at the same time. However OP he was, I don't think anyone would claim green was his primary issue.

CNash

Demiurge nerfed Iron Fist within weeks of his release, after the forumites repeatedly told them that he'd be overpowered for general 3* play... but left characters like Sentry and 4* Thor in clearly overpowered states for months, with the forum-goers screaming at them the whole time that these characters were overpowered, and the old hands sighing "here we go again..." - which doesn't build trust between the customer and the developer. By all means, make mistakes, but please acknowledge and correct those mistakes sooner rather than later. If this means disrupting your two-week sprint plan, then disrupt it. A good Agile project prioritises fixing existing bugs over creating new features - if you do it the other way around, you end up building on top of bug-ridden code (or in this case, a metagame built around a poorly balanced character), and sooner or later you'll just need to refactor the whole thing anyway. Leaving X-Force in his current state for this long tells me that Demiurge didn't think that this was a major issue until just recently, which strikes me as a little odd.

Dauthi

Vertigozooropa wrote:

I think the X-Force green nerf is a bit much. It should have been shifted, not cut by 2/3. Like, destroy more tiles in exchange for the damage.

It should do no extra damage, but destroy 32 tiles in a criss-cross pattern, for tile values. Maybe make it cost more. I don't know.

This is a really hard neuter, and I don't think it's quite right.

I like the other changes, though. This could make the game more fun.

I hope everyone is remembering that you still get damage for wolverine's green ability through tile destruction. They only dropped his damage by 2k total, so instead of doing 5k damage plus shakeup (which is pretty ridiculous for 8 ap) it does 3k damage + shakeup, which is still great compared to other balanced characters.

Everyone griping is still going to end up using him not because they have him, but because he is still a solid character.

Unknown

CNash wrote:

Demiurge nerfed Iron Fist within weeks of his release, after the forumites repeatedly told them that he'd be overpowered for general 3* play... but left characters like Sentry and 4* Thor in clearly overpowered states for months, with the forum-goers screaming at them the whole time that these characters were overpowered, and the old hands sighing "here we go again..." - which doesn't build trust between the customer and the developer. By all means, make mistakes, but please acknowledge and correct those mistakes sooner rather than later. If this means disrupting your two-week sprint plan, then disrupt it. A good Agile project prioritises fixing existing bugs over creating new features - if you do it the other way around, you end up building on top of bug-ridden code (or in this case, a metagame built around a poorly balanced character), and sooner or later you'll just need to refactor the whole thing anyway. Leaving X-Force in his current state for this long tells me that Demiurge didn't think that this was a major issue until just recently, which strikes me as a little odd.

I've been saying this for ages - fix the current stuff before moving to the new stuff

Raven

My favorite part of the entire update is the changes in iso structure.

"Level up our awful 4*s faster" is basically what they're saying.

I'm down to using 1 shield per PvP until my HP is gone, then no more for me either.

Unknown

CNash wrote:

Demiurge nerfed Iron Fist within weeks of his release, after the forumites repeatedly told them that he'd be overpowered for general 3* play... but left characters like Sentry and 4* Thor in clearly overpowered states for months, with the forum-goers screaming at them the whole time that these characters were overpowered, and the old hands sighing "here we go again..." - which doesn't build trust between the customer and the developer. By all means, make mistakes, but please acknowledge and correct those mistakes sooner rather than later. If this means disrupting your two-week sprint plan, then disrupt it. A good Agile project prioritises fixing existing bugs over creating new features - if you do it the other way around, you end up building on top of bug-ridden code (or in this case, a metagame built around a poorly balanced character), and sooner or later you'll just need to refactor the whole thing anyway. Leaving X-Force in his current state for this long tells me that Demiurge didn't think that this was a major issue until just recently, which strikes me as a little odd.

Part of the problem is that, according to D3's own staff, a lot of them are in 2 to 3 transition, meaning they aren't current on the top level competition issues.

Kind of hard to design or balance a 4 when you are running Bagman and Bullseye teams on your account.

ynglink

Teke184 wrote:

Part of the problem is that, according to D3's own staff, a lot of them are in 2 to 3 transition, meaning they aren't current on the top level competition issues.

Kind of hard to design or balance a 4 when you are running Moonstone based teams on your account.

Fixed it for you

PorkBelly

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

On a serious note..

To all the players that say they leaving. I say don't give up hope. There are better days on the horizon!
If even half of the things I've heard about are true, then trust me, you are going to want to be here for them!

GothicKratos

I'm not sure how to respond to this. Going to chew on it for awhile.

Initial Thoughts:

1.) X-Force change is probably a big overstep (like the Thorina changes). I feel like they probably need to re-evalutae their 4* power curve. I don't think they're too far off the mark, but definitely off the mark.

2.) Beast change looks good - probably mid-tier now.

3.) She-Hulk is probably on the lower end of the top tier spectrum to me now (especially in PvE and as a counter-pick in PvP).

4.) Doc Ock, Elektra, and Invisible Womann changes are good, but I don't think enough (though still good improvements in the right direction).

5.) The HP adjustments I only glanced over currently, but mostly seem fine.

6.) I'll reserve judgement on the ISO-8 Level Up adjustments until I see them, but I don't think it'll change much if the top end isn't coming down any (especially in the minds of most forumites - 'the problem' is the overall cost that is an issue, not necessarily the chasms of ISO-8 it takes to get over each level).

Unknown

PorkBelly wrote:

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

On a serious note..

To all the players that say they leaving. I say don't give up hope. There are better days on the horizon!
If even half of the things I've heard about are true, then trust me, you are going to want to be here for them!

Don't be surprised, I saw someone the other day saying they WANTED new characters faster.

I can't explain it.

then again I've seen someone say bullseye is good and spiderman is bad so nothing surprises me

Arondite

Dauthi wrote:

Vertigozooropa wrote:

I think the X-Force green nerf is a bit much. It should have been shifted, not cut by 2/3. Like, destroy more tiles in exchange for the damage.

It should do no extra damage, but destroy 32 tiles in a criss-cross pattern, for tile values. Maybe make it cost more. I don't know.

This is a really hard neuter, and I don't think it's quite right.

I like the other changes, though. This could make the game more fun.

I hope everyone is remembering that you still get damage for wolverine's green ability through tile destruction. They only dropped his damage by 2k total, so instead of doing 5k damage plus shakeup (which is pretty ridiculous for 8 ap) it does 3k damage + shakeup, which is still great compared to other balanced characters.

Everyone griping is still going to end up using him not because they have him, but because he is still a solid character.

1360 + (15 x 42.5) = 3K?

Hmmm..

Hmm...

TheViceroy

gobstopper wrote:

Re: She-Hulk and Doc Ock no longer affecting countdowns

Does over-scaled PvE really need another buff? Does Doc Ock really need to go from niche PvE specialist to Bagtopus ver. 2?

This jumped out at me as well.
So they basically only want us to use Falcon to deal with goons?
This is quite a bit nerf to these two characters, when ANY changes to them should have been buffs all around.
Hopefully some clarification is given for these two character's skill updates, and that it's an oversight or something.

Just another example of why PVE scaling really needs to be fixed, and how seemingly innocent changes can affect major parts of the game and character viability. Cause I'd never use them over Falcon to deal with Countdown tiles even after these "buffs", whereas maybe possibly I would have if these powers still affected Countdown tiles.

Unknown

Just a random though: Patch and Ldaken should have same HP tier as Mohawk (7k). As of now, less than 7k is in OHKO range for a lot of stuff. Even with regen issues saying the overall HP will be higher (takes 3 rounds to pass 7k after damage has been received), there are now plenty of ways to take them in one shot. Put 9 green on board, XF will OHKO Patch with SS. Hell, even MQ can OHKO both with a Shapeshift + Masterstroke.

Druss

just been skim reading (don't want to smash the screen!) & the thing that worries me most is the health.

People even seem to be in favour?

This is a hugh nerf to all characters not getting health increase - for instance Hulk just got nerfed into uselessness as well.

Also the one I really hate - buffing bullseye's health - really? at level 300 in PvE he is already a serious pain with an extra 5000 health or so, I can expect to clear 3 PvE nodes an evening! This is true for everyone else on the list.

As far as I can see new top-tier is Cyclops, Blade, Cage, Falcon - I would add a disclaimer about putting iso into them though, as soon as you do they will add an auto suicide skill for each of them to auto trigger on turn 1. (actually a better nerf than the ones they are currently handing out - XF, Rags, etc)

One question for the developers: I'm not saying you guys are heavy handed or anything but: If your children accidentally spill something on the floor do you whip them? or just shoot them?

Pylgrim

Well, here are my 2 cents:

Negative Changes:
-This one is easy. X-Force needed a nerf but they have, as often they do, swung too hard the nerf bat. X-Force lost almost two thirds of the damage it previously dealt, and Surgical Strike lost two thirds of its utility (though it now deals even more beastly damage). I believe that halving X-Force's damage and removing only one of SS's additional abilities would have been more than enough. The buff to his yellow and to his black's damage is to little to compensate, and apparently he didn't get a health upgrade... which is understandable for the Hood, Patch, and Iron Fist, as they are the best in their category. I very much doubt X-Force will be the best in his category anymore. I get the feeling that the devs wanted to ensure not only that he was balanced, but that he would no longer be the unarguable best. I guess he had a good reign, but now is time for someone else to bear that crown. He's still quite playable, too.
-Beast's Yellow is still hilariously bad. Even doubling its health output, the only thing it managed is to become barely better than Spider-Man's Yellow, which is one of the worst skills in the game anyway. No one should have to pay 11 AP for a "burst" of health no matter how big or how many bells it has added. Only "burst health" of any worth in the game is the free kind, like Kamala's. Beast's two other abilities' buff are, I think, not significant enough to include a character with a completely dead third ability, so I don't expect him to see a big surge of playability.

Positive Changes:
-Perhaps X-Force's nerf will finally be the what will force truly out the small but extremely dedicated group of toxic posters from these forums. Their hateful, bilious, never-endingly whining threads were making the forums a pain to navigate.
-Elektra's buff is unexpected and welcome. Now that we no longer have an indisputable king it may be her time to see some serious play.
-Beast's most important change is perhaps the easier to miss: Animal Inside only destroys basic tiles now, meaning that he won't destroy his own special tiles. That was the stupidest thing about him.
-Invisible Woman, Doc Ock, and She-Hulk are significantly stronger now. I look forward to test them.
-Less ISO to level up character forward on is super welcome.

"We'll Have to Wait and See" Changes:
-The nerf of X-Force coupled with the new character buffs and the health upgrade across the board should result in a massive meta upheaval. In one month time, the way people play PVP will be drastically different to what it is now. I know that for some people this is unspeakably wrong, as apparently they wanted to collect 11 black AP into an easy victory over an over for the rest of their lives. However, I feel curious and I'm excited to find the new best character combinations. I feel cautiously optimistic that once the dust settles, the new MPQ will be better than it is now.

ronin_san

I skipped four pages (7 to current) so maybe it was covered.


But why did everyone but Patch, Hood, and Daken get a health bump? And why is it that Beast's damage bump is worthwhile, when everyone (almost) has received a bump in health?

thedarkphoenix

My biggest problem with X-force being nerfed is that damage and speed was the only thing he brought to the table (some sustained survivability also) outside of that he is Now probably the most boring 4 star released to date, even if elektra is "bad" she's different and kinda fun. Xforce literally was all about getting in there and doing damage hard and fast. THAT'S what was FUN about the character. He also made some of the higher pve scaled events manageable Once you nerfed boost, you had already touched Xforce starting power. This is just overkill. Not only is he not fun now, he has nothing out side of doing damage and a CD tile that heals or does damage.

His black should atleast let you target a choose color, give him something that's "fun" Devil dino is close to being better than Xforce at the moment.