Nefarious Foes - Matchmaking Test - Discussion

Unknown

So this is the question that I need to pose to D3.

Do you want people with 2 star rosters to be able to compete for top 5 spots and 1500 points, with all the whales?

Because if that is what you want, I will gladly make a new account and sell every single 3 star character I get.

But then again, what is the point of that?


You're trying to fix something that isn't broken.

You know how I overcame the level 166 wall? I got some level 166s.

The point of the game is progression.

If you can automatically compete for top spots with just a transitional roster, then why would you ever want any 3 stars?

This is one of the worst catch 22s I've ever seen:

You need a bad roster to get good matches and accumulate points.
If you accumulate points, you'll improve your roster, giving you fewer good matches and you will no longer accumulate as many points.

stryke

I will say that after having to skip a lot earlier on now that I'm on 176 points the selection is looking a lot more reasonable.

I'm using The Hood boosted to 168, cDaken boosted to 156 and Ares boosted to 187. My three nodes are;

Ares 187, Moonstone 187, Doom 182 - 15 points
Ares 156, mDaken 187, Ragnarok 126 - 17 points
Ares 187, The Hood 152, cMagneto 136 - 16 points

Unknown

There should be another votable option: I would seriously consider quitting the game entirely based on this change. The whole point of spending the time and, yes, MONEY that I have spent in this game is to achieve a competitive advantage over those who are not willing to spend what I have. This change is a slap in the face ofanyone who has done so. As awful as the change is, implementing it with a new character for reward is beyond ridiculous.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

I don't get the complain about the maxed teams that seem to be from guys who also have maxed teams. Are you the only person that's allowed to run a maxed Daken/Sentry/Hood? I don't know how placement is going to turn out but so far it's not sounding like any 2*/transition guys are somehow able to sneak ahead, so everyone's still subject to the same difficulty. In the past you had a lot of cupcakes to beat up while climbing but so does everyone else.

Now I'm sure progression awards are totally hosed, but that should be relatively easy to fix once the data comes in.

If you don't know the difference in difficulty of being maxed 2* teams with maxed 2* teamd. And beating maxed toughest characters in the game, you've lost your touch.

Also, if you only play the best maxed teams, you have to play your best team. This means you don't get to choose your own team. This crushes roster diversity to the max. How can I use any of my 2*'s or non maxed 3*'s when I only hey matched against the best maxed 3*/4* team comps in the game?

Also for the hundredth time, why are veteran players punished for spending their time and effort on the game? Sharding and now MMR, why would the ai need to cheat when the developers continue to further handicap the players that play the best and most? Where is the incentive to win covers and level character's and buy roster slots?

I've never seen a business punish their customers or try and run them off like this one. Typical business 101: it costs more to get a new customer than to retain the one you already have. In other words, the more you play, the better your experience should get. Sharding and the new mmr and some PVE scaling are a total paradox to how most businesses treat their loyalest customers.

Words never uttered at MPQ: customer rewards program.

orionpeace

jtvincible wrote:

There should be another votable option: I would seriously consider quitting the game entirely based on this change. The whole point of spending the time and, yes, MONEY that I have spent in this game is to achieve a competitive advantage over those who are not willing to spend what I have. This change is a slap in the face ofanyone who has done so. As awful as the change is, implementing it with a new character for reward is beyond ridiculous.

If I add that option to the poll above, it will reset the results.

If D3 hasn't responded by noon tomorrow ET, I will record the results of the current poll in the thread and change it to a "If this change stays, I will..." poll.

Unknown

SpaceBearPig wrote:

Honestly I love it to death. No opponent is easy, no opponent is impossible, every fight counts. This is miles ahead of the old system in which the only people ever rewarded were the people that were way ahead and had huge 3* rosters. There is no wall of b.tinykitty for 2* players once you get up to 300-400 points.

You should never have a fight you cannot take in PvP, going in should be a risk. This is like matchmaking in any competitive multiplayer game and at least for me its been amazing. PvP needs to go in this direction for sure.

However, I'm guessing with this reaction it's not going to stick, such a shame. D3 should build on this so that vets dont get as **** as they've gotten here (from what I read and 2* transitional players (if it's the experience I'm getting for others like me) can actuallt compete.

This makes sense if your potential ELO/point-gain per fight greatly exceeds your potential loss. But that is not true in this game. You can come out of a fight down -150 points from multiple attacks. Now that EVERY single battle you fight is a retaliation risk, the expected point loss is that much greater.

Let me know if you still think the matchmaking is "amazing" after all your retaliations come in and you can't above 300 points without shielding.

scottee

stryke wrote:

I will say that after having to skip a lot earlier on now that I'm on 176 points the selection is looking a lot more reasonable.

I'm using The Hood boosted to 168, cDaken boosted to 156 and Ares boosted to 187. My three nodes are;

Ares 187, Moonstone 187, Doom 182 - 15 points
Ares 156, mDaken 187, Ragnarok 126 - 17 points
Ares 187, The Hood 152, cMagneto 136 - 16 points

It's very possible they tweaked the numbers and then cleared everyone's MMR, so we won't know how the new system's working until everyone's played several matches. But the way it looks, many here are not going to play enough for them to get usable data on how it's working.

Unknown

I haven't started playing this one yet and looking at my first 3 opponents I couldn't discern anything unusual other than high level 3*s which is normal because all the villains including 3* ones are buffed in this event. In a normal PvP, I would see maxed 2* teams with base level loaner and sometimes some unmaxed 3* with slightly leveled loaner from the start. In this one there is no loaner. One can easily compose a team of 3 buffed villains if they have them. It is different from a normal PvP in that aspect. I will see later if it is as bad as what others are experiencing.

GrimSkald

jtvincible wrote:

There should be another votable option: I would seriously consider quitting the game entirely based on this change. The whole point of spending the time and, yes, MONEY that I have spent in this game is to achieve a competitive advantage over those who are not willing to spend what I have. This change is a slap in the face ofanyone who has done so. As awful as the change is, implementing it with a new character for reward is beyond ridiculous.

Honestly, I've never threatened to quit the game before, but this change really screws with my ability to play PVP, which in turn will slow my filling out my roster to snail's place. I will have to level all the characters I can to 166, which will in turn bollocks my PVE, and I'll still probably be screwed because my X-Force isn't particularly good.

I would quit over this. I've spent about $80 over 6 months - it's a pity I'm leaving behind that "investment," but if I can't play the game worth a damn what's the point? If it's not fun, it's not fun.

Unknown

LoreNYC wrote:

Across the board the change blows. No one likes it. People probably will quit even knowing it will be rolled back the second this pvp ends. It would be nice to add another day to LR and put mystique as reward for the next pvp to make up for this mistake.

Next PvP is Mystique... if anyone could infiltrate her own PvP and give out herself as rewards, it would definitely be her. I'm all for it (because I'm not sure I'll be able to grind out the 367 points it will take to top 5 my current bracket).

pony mad

It seems they added this change to lightning rounds as well, so i can focus on PvE now, since there is nothing else to play left for me. i dont have a single 166 ( i have 1 at lvl 153 and 1 at 142, thats about it) and the enemy teams are all maxed out from the beginning.
The only way to achieve something in this new matchmaking would be an infinite amount of healthpacks or having everything thats buffed maxxed from the beginning. i have to admit, i was hoping for something different...
i wanted to see the 166+ wall replaced by enemys that are matching my roster. Ive been working hard on improvement the last weeks and i finally managed to be able to handle the deathwall for a short amount of time/matches. this improvement feels like no longer existent in this new system and im quite sure others will have a similar feeling. please remove it as soon as possible ._. the fun in this game is created by the feeling of improving and becoming stronger, defeating a stronger team feels rewarding and satisfying... but the gameplay is based around grinding matches and the rewards are for grinders... no way to grind my way through max level walls from the beginning.

wymtime

pony mad wrote:

SpaceBearPig wrote:

Honestly I love it to death. No opponent is easy, no opponent is impossible, every fight counts. This is miles ahead of the old system in which the only people ever rewarded were the people that were way ahead and had huge 3* rosters. There is no wall of b.tinykitty for 2* players once you get up to 300-400 points.

You should never have a fight you cannot take in PvP, going in should be a risk. This is like matchmaking in any competitive multiplayer game and at least for me its been amazing. PvP needs to go in this direction for sure.

However, I'm guessing with this reaction it's not going to stick, such a shame. D3 should build on this so that vets dont get as **** as they've gotten here (from what I read and 2* transitional players (if it's the experience I'm getting for others like me) can actuallt compete.

you have a point there, but the problem is another one... this is not a competative skill-based multiplayergame. It is pay2win and taking away any hope for weaker players will neither encourage them to keep playing, nor to spent some money. its more like a shot in the knee.

Not to pile on, but it also comes down to this. If all 3* people are seeing is Maxed Sentry, Hood, Daken or X-force, Hood, Cmags. So the player with Punisher, BWGS and Hulk is going to get squished. If we have to play our A-team 100% of the time what is the point of leveling other characters. Why would I want to bring Psylock against X-Force. The previous issues with MMR was the 166 wall at 600 points. this caused 2* teams to be slammed back at that level. Right now this new system feels extreme the other way where you are facing similar opponents right from the start. The reality is MMR has been an issue for 2* and transitioning 3* players, and that is what they are trying to fix. Right now this MMR is tinnykitty because it is either matching everyone up against similar rosters levels, so you have 3 166 you fight similar 166 and everyone's MMR got reset to 0. One more issue is becuase of this PVP with so many buffed villians I would bet it is also throwing off the MMR. Oh look you have 3-4 level 166 villains, here is your group. you have no villians and a * roster here is your group. D3 next time you test your new MMR system please do not do it for a new character and please only have 1 buffed character. If only Punisher was buffed and BWGS was the reward we would have seen a much different start to the new system, and we would be less reactionary from the start.

woopie

Top 5 in my bracket don't have a character over level 127

ScrubJay

This is despicable. I already quit PVP events at the 700 point mark because of the wall of Sentries and Dakens. Apparently that was too late, now I can't even get started.

franckynight

Ok.. Lets keep it civil.. But it doesnt change bit my thinking.. Its a slap in the face.. Plain and simple.. Devs have to roll it back and stop punishing the ppl who support them.. The mmr is completely broken.. Even more than before.. In LRs i ve been hit by ppl 300 Pts below me!!! Not only i have to face maxed roster but my score is not protecting me anymore as it seems my mmr is only roster based.. Thats poorly designed..

Unknown

Here's the thing...not all 166 characters are created equal. My four best characters? GSBW and Captain America at 166. Patch and Thor at 153. My highest villain? Level 127 Sentry with level 95 Doom being the next highest. So, with buffs, the best team I can field (level-wise) is Sentry (254), Doom (190), Ares (187). No way I can take out the maxed Sentry/Hood/Laken teams with that but this MMR thinks my team is comparable since your Sentry/Hood/Laken is 166 just like my Widow and Cap.

killerkoala

did they tweek it back to normal?

Unknown

To people saying they can just fix progression rewards:

You can do that, but isn't it all just an inefficient use of time and resources? Your status quo is A, you change B and now you have to change C just to keep your status quo at A. Instead of wasting your time and money running in circles, why not work on more beneficial, long-term changes, such as character balance and new game modes? (I used to include fixing MMR as a beneficial long-term change, but by now it seems they don't really know how)

If they go the route of keeping this new MMR change and trying to tweak progression rewards to compensate, it would just be Team-Up deja vu all over again - a whole lot of time and energy spent on insignificance.

Unknown

Top of my roster is 153's unbuffed and I didn't seeing anything completely out of left field at the start. The seeds are a bit higher level than usual, but I chalked that up to the buffs. There are more seeds which happens sometimes anyway. I did get attacked once under 150 points which was unusual. Now I'm at my first non-seed node which is 270/280/332 for 28 points (I top out at 306 buffed here).

More data: I don't usually shield hop. PVP scores are typically 700-800. Placement is usually t50, but I have been able to push to t25 with the occasional hop.

SpaceBearPig

pony mad wrote:

SpaceBearPig wrote:

Honestly I love it to death. No opponent is easy, no opponent is impossible, every fight counts. This is miles ahead of the old system in which the only people ever rewarded were the people that were way ahead and had huge 3* rosters. There is no wall of b.tinykitty for 2* players once you get up to 300-400 points.

You should never have a fight you cannot take in PvP, going in should be a risk. This is like matchmaking in any competitive multiplayer game and at least for me its been amazing. PvP needs to go in this direction for sure.

However, I'm guessing with this reaction it's not going to stick, such a shame. D3 should build on this so that vets dont get as **** as they've gotten here (from what I read and 2* transitional players (if it's the experience I'm getting for others like me) can actuallt compete.

you have a point there, but the problem is another one... this is not a competative skill-based multiplayergame. It is pay2win and taking away any hope for weaker players will neither encourage them to keep playing, nor to spent some money. its more like a shot in the knee.

I'm surprised by the reaction looking at my experience, clearly I'm one of the few that has had a much better experience. To me this new system looks like it's scalling in a PvE like fashion, I mold my roster for PvE in particular, so maybe that's why.

However I'm going to take a wild guess and say that if you look at the rankings you'll see a lot more weaker players. Paying to win is going to happend, thats just the design of the game, not much to do about that, however I very much doubt that it's a huge percentage of the playerbase that does pay to win. If they do, kudos to them they're supporting a game I enjoy, have some digital goods for your troubles but make it a more even playing field so palyers like the 2* trasitionals have a chance at a top finish in a PvP from time to time.