The ChaHulk meta

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  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    I believe I stated fact but other players can verify if that's the case. I remember that at least one of the seasons has one fewer pvp. Unfortunately, your response is "whatever". It shows that the hate for Chasm/iHulk has clouded your mind.

    Anyway, this is the sixth week Chasm/iHulk can hardly be found in pvps.

    As for players who decided to go 550 on only meta characters, you are well aware of how mmr works. You can't be expecting to speed clear pves with your 550 roster while not wanting to deal with your fellow 550 enemies in pvps. That's unrealistic. There's a saying I would modify to fit MPQ: live by the 5XX meta and die by the 5XX meta.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    Another revive.
    This thread is so awesome.
    Of course off season and every team being beatable by Wanda Thanos Doom, or Christmas, has nothing to do with lower scores.

    Nope, it's all Chasm.
    Who nobody was running in Fist, but whatever.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    A good indication for player engagement with PvP would be the number of times the slices flip. Unfortunately we don’t have that kind of data, especially to compare to before Chasm and post Chasm, but it still flips several times every event according to Line. The top 50 scores are influenced by a number of factors because top-50 isn’t a goal for non-casual players. Most casual players play to the first cp offer then drop out, though with reduced win progression hopefully they play to 25 wins. That’s what they say on Reddit and Discord anyways. Those players aren’t shielded and will float to below 500 pts if using a non-meta team, such as Chasm/Thor or Okoye/iHulk.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Oh yeah, now it's my MMR's turn.
    However the chahulks teams I usually fight and awarding ~45 points usually are 470 level chasm, that's less than my superior characters. So sadly, it's not because of my MMR.
    I figured out your next argument! It's because of the android bug. If casually all the top scorers were on Android, it could be true( although on iOS the game has double the downloads).
    Chas was released almost 3 months ago and there are already missing points in a huge amount.
    But it's not because of chasm! I know it! It's because the iron man buff! :D

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,773 Chairperson of the Boards

    This has been going on so long this thread needs its own sub forum.

    Nothing new has come around in weeks. I just want this thread to disappear now thanks.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    I can close it if that is what people want. The thread has went from “what is a good counter” to alternating between “Chasm is the worst” and “Chasm is easily countered”. We are rehashing all of the same arguments over and over ad nauseam. That being said, this thread still has pretty high engagement. As such, if this thread makes people’s experience on the site worse I can help with that. If you want it to remain to give people a spot to tinykitty about the meta (like the worst moment of the day thread) I will just leave it be. Just let me know.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,617 Chairperson of the Boards

    Reading back through this, the biggest problems seem to be from shield sim. With boosted 5* in regular PvP, Chasm is annoying but not that big a deal, and often not anyone's best option. In shield sim, the resurrection team is the trolliest troll team anybody can run, so of course it's 100% of opponents. With no boosts the sim metagame never changes, either -- it's always a wall of whoever the most annoying defensive guy is at the time.

    My question to all of you is why on earth are you still playing shield sim?. It's an outdated event with a horrifically bad reward structure. Like, puzzle gauntlet has a better rewards/effort ratio than sim does, and that event's rewards are terrible.

    Sim gives you one 4* cover (and 4* are more available now than they've ever been) plus a few iso and low-value tokens, in exchange for spending hours throwing yourself at the most annoying defensive teams people can come up with. Why bother? I haven't touched shield sim in years and haven't missed it one bit. If they revamped the rewards I might go for it but until then it's a total waste of your time.

  • Codex
    Codex Posts: 402 Mover and Shaker

    My question to all of you is why on earth are you still playing shield sim?. It's an outdated event with a horrifically bad reward structure. Like, puzzle gauntlet has a better rewards/effort ratio than sim does, and that event's rewards are terrible.

    I too have not played sim in years. But, that mainly because I play PvP in S2 or S5 where playing sim is meaningless to my overall season PvP score. I see why players in other PvP slices play it

    On a side note I asked them to add cp rewards to sim in the last q&a, but I got what felt like a brush off answer.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,617 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    If players are using sim to boost their season placement then I suppose that makes sense, but now I have a new incredulous question: why on earth are you working hard for season placement?

    The season rewards are also terrible if you look at the rewards/effort ratio, and also desperately need a revamp if they're supposed to matter. It's still, like, a couple heroic 10-packs, right? The amount of HP you're spending on shields to earn those could just be spent buying the heroic 10-packs.

    Some players still have this idea that if they don't grind out every single 10iso reward from every single event, they'll somehow "fall behind" other players and lose their spot in the hierarchy. You won't. You'll be fine. I promise. Don't stress yourself out grinding for bad rewards that don't matter -- they're so generous everywhere now that you can skip the old/bad events with old/bad rewards and still do very well.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,617 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    Any character complaint thread is perceived as an attack by players who rely on an overpowered character. They know x guy is too good, they see people complain about him, and they think "oh no, if the developers see this, they'll find out x is too good and take my overpowered toy away!" It's been repeated on this forum over and over and over again for years, with whoever the latest overpowered guy is.

    Complaint threads like this never have any effect though. They're not taking your overpowered guy away -- the last time they did that was what, 5 years ago? Let people vent and complain and work out ways to counter him. They're not attacking you and even if they do want your guy taken away, the devs have proven that they won't ever do that, no matter what the consequences are.

  • AlexR
    AlexR Posts: 453 Mover and Shaker

    I am waiting for the reports of how Riri teams or Hit-Monkey do in pick-2 vs Chasm/iHulk. Because I'm at the cusp of entering 5* territory and I refuse to move up unless I have a counter to deal with this. Passive AP drain + multi-revival characters sound so, so tedious to fight.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,617 Chairperson of the Boards

    If you're at the point of 550ing characters, there are at least 4 excellent counters to Chasm in pick-2 -- they just change every week! 675 Court Death hits for about 80,000 this week. I can beat 550 Chasm/Hulk in a few moves -- it's a joke. Anything at or below 550 looks like a cupcake when you're running 600s or 675s.

    Of course, many players didn't bother leveling up the old guys, instead choosing to max level one or two of the best 5*. This used to be the best way to do things, but isn't anymore. The optimal roster, post-5* boosts, is a diverse, relatively-evenly-leveled 5* tier that can run 2 different high level boosted guys every week. The hoarders do still get to win shield sim, I guess.

  • IrisRyu
    IrisRyu Posts: 176 Tile Toppler

    I think I was still in 3-star land when Thanos was released! He’s well covered for a classic, but mine can’t hang on non-boost weeks. I’ll give him a shot boosted and will learn to love him those weeks!

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2022

    @Sekilicious said:
    I can close it if that is what people want. The thread has went from “what is a good counter” to alternating between “Chasm is the worst” and “Chasm is easily countered”. We are rehashing all of the same arguments over and over ad nauseam. That being said, this thread still has pretty high engagement. As such, if this thread makes people’s experience on the site worse I can help with that. If you want it to remain to give people a spot to tinykitty about the meta (like the worst moment of the day thread) I will just leave it be. Just let me know.

    I wouldn't miss it if it were gone. Tired of seeing it actually. It's mostly the same few people saying the same things over and over. But now they begin posts with "As I said before" or "like I said from the beginning"

  • Codex
    Codex Posts: 402 Mover and Shaker

    Maybe the solution is increasing boosted 5* to six or eight different characters every week in regular PvP. Not sure what to do about sim other than not play.

    This may also give ppl that hoard a pause and consider being more diverse in their roster rather than fixating on meta characters.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    I think this thread can be closed. There's nothing new to add. The next thread about Chasm should be something like "Say bye bye to Chasm with this 5* release", which could happen as early as the January 5* release. Then, around August 2023, we'll have another new nerf thread talking about healthpack usage due to the new meta team.

  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,717 Chairperson of the Boards

    I see no point in closing the thread, it does show off how strong the opinions are. Look, I know a lot of you think "Oh, it's another nerf thread." I can speak for myself - I rarely call for a nerf, and I do think that Chasm is over-powered, and, worse, over-powered in a way that makes the game a chore to play.
    There are reasonable counters for him, and in a week where they're boosted you're going to see more diversity (i.e. this week where both SW and Thanos are okay at countering Chasm,) but on weeks were there isn't it's going to really suck to play anything else. Sure, you can beat the team, but after you get high enough you won't be able to net points because you're a bright shiny target.
    I do think that Chasm changed the meta substantially, and I do think that's bad for the game. I'll adopt a "wait and see" attitude myself because I have a reasonably high Chasm and a very robust roster -- I can afford to tinker around with the counters. But someone not in such a great position would definitely be getting very frustrated.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Why bothering to play SIM? Because it's fun.
    Because for once the player is free to use any team. Personally I like to play with my best team.
    And indeed it reveals the most annoying meta team of the moment. For many years was kitty grocket, bishop BRB, cap worthy and HE, a lot of years brolaris, hulkoye, colSW, etc... Still I think there wasn't any year having exclusively one team on SIM tops, like now.
    We as players are the culprit for playing them? No, not at all. We will chase and play the best tool at the moment.
    However when the meta becomes exclusive and boring(and this is a general perception, not just me), developers must question why those teams are overplayed and must design good tools for to have a second option.
    Do they want to soft counter it a bit with riri and the monkey? Nice, be it. But then release more soft counters in order to having more options.
    And one last thing, advanced rosters and MMRs are experiencing this situation because they have more resources and they aim for top characters.
    Give more time to 4* players to chase chasm without an ultimate counter (a character that chasm always will skip) and you will have the same situation we are experiencing.
    Also the drop in pvp points is something serious and it never happened since I've been playing, perhaps for that reason there are already 2 5* characters in a row released soft countering the chahulk team.

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