Upcoming Feature: S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Level 10

DarthDeVo · February 2020

Also, judging from the Sneak Peek thread, it looks like placement/progression rewards will indeed be tied to the 5* essential for the event.

I really didn't think the bean counters would let them give away shards through placement/progression on Latest characters like that. I was wrong.

I'm torn on this. It will make it easier to get characters covered before they leave Latest, and that *is* nice. But I was hoping this would be a way to feature Classic 5*s more often to help get them covered better. Now we'll basically get one shot at them each year (or longer) when they're the 5*E and that's it. Not really doing much to help get older characters covered if you missed them when they were in Latest. 😕

BagPuss · February 2020

Vhailorx said:

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HoundofShadow said:

You know players (not all) around here can never be satisfied regardless of what the devs do. They expect more and more rewards without putting in extra effort or buying to speed up progress. What a world!

If you get to complain that I am "always negative" then do I get to complain that you are always playing white knight to justify whatever demi/d3 happen to have done most recently?

White Knight should be used for just causes like social injustice, prejudice or looking out for the little man.

Towing the corporate line, on the party bandwagon, corporate suit, is more apt.

In other games the developers (Valve, Blizzard occasionally) give more / make it easier, they are universally praised. Which is in contrast to other developers who are more focused on the bottom line like EA, Capcom's release of SFV, Square's release of FFVII remake all are generally lamblasted but have their defenders.

If we're looking at the long term we should be giving the new players more and making it easier. I'm gonna grumble at the HP drop (360+ slots free play), but i know i don't really need it.

Those new players trying to roster 200+ unique characters do need the HP... You can either help them or squeeze them.

Call a spade a spade, don't try to dress it up because you like something. That's just fanboyism.
Case in point, my favourite Football team is my home town team. They are terrible, have a leaky defence, couldn't score if they played all night. But i love them..... when i don't wach them play

Yepyep · February 2020

Vhailorx said:

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HoundofShadow said:

I find the HP reduction negligible because more Heroic, Mighty Tokens, 4* shards and 4* covers mean that you can reach better champion rewards faster, and it also speed up your favourite shards a little faster as well.

But champion rewards also have less HP. And the cost of roster slots has not changed, so has the real $ cost of HP. Nerfing the HP distribution rate is a *big* change to the MPQ economy, as a lot of other resources boil down to a value based on HP.

And as I said, I am skeptical changes that significantly reduce my income of discretionary resources (things I can spend on a variety of goods to suit my particular needs) and replace them with fixed goods (e.g., shards, covers etc). It's like stores that give you full value on return for store credit, versus those that offer cash refunds.

Again: precisely. They have locked in the profits; swap-outs have no impact on booked profit. (Are you an economist, @Vhailorx?)

Yepyep · February 2020

HoundofShadow said:

Champion rewards are not only about HP.

EVERYTHING in the game is only about HP. All other resources in the game will arrive in time, with patience.

But ultimately, HP must be purchased with rent/food/retirement money. Enforced by dilution’s demand for roster slots.

DAZ0273 · February 2020

DarthDeVo said:

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HoundofShadow said:

**snip** I have not seen comments about players increasing their monthly spendings to the next tier when dev adds in major rewards, but many comments about stopping or reducing spendings when tradeoffs happen. **snip**

Oh, so d3 can look forward to you doubling what you spend on the game now then? Awesome!

Let's see, what is twice of nothing? Oh, it's still nothing? Tough break, d3! Better luck next time!

I appreciate the increased rewards, but there's something like 203 unique characters in the game. This is like getting some extra vacation days or sick leave while your salary stays flat (or is actually cut) while the price of gas/groceries/rent creeps ever higher.

It's nice and all, and definitely helps in some ways (should be easier to cover characters while in Latest despite CP reductions), but in other ways is actively a detriment.

I'll see how it plays out over the next several months, but I'm currently at 286 slots, and will be hitting the dreaded 300 mark soon enough. With the cut to HP, I might have to look at changing how I play PvP.

As MPQ doesn't have a dedicated Community Manager (sorry IceIX but we know you are on multi-tasks) at this moment they are already saving real life dollars, they could afford to give the players a "pay rise"!

wymtime · February 2020

MrEd95 said:

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wymtime said:

MrEd95 said:

wymtime said:

@IceIX

I am reading more and want to understand the philosophy behind some of the changes. In CL9 today from a 3-4 day event in progression you can earn 40CP. Now In CL 10 you can earn 34 CP and 250 shards.

With CL10 being more difficult than CL9 why the reduction in CP? Why not just add 5* shards to the rewards for CL10? For comparison PVP is getting more CP and 5* shards added and it has become easier to get the CP.

also with in increase in CL in PVE will the 5* essential node give out 4 CP instead of 3 like in CL9.

With a loss of 6 cp (just over 20% of a latest pull, of which you are getting a 15% of any of 9 possible covers) you 1/2 of a cover for any 5* character you want. I’m no mathematician, but that seems like a big improvement. I really don't see why there is any reason to complain there.

Sure, it would be nice to get both, but its still a big increase in rewards, and it is more directed to what you want. Its 1 5* cover every week for progression, and none of it down to chance.

That being said, i still play CL8, and theres no chance of me getting to CL10 any time soon, so i don't even know why I’m bothering with my opinion on the matter

1st you should never feel that your opinion does does not matter because you play a lower CL. Your opinion is valid and from where you are in the game.

2nd I am looking for an explanation more than a complaint. I will say with the inclusion of shards the ability to earn CP and HP had been reduced by the inclusion of shards. It has become add shards and lose CP and HP.

my question is why should be lose rewards with the addition of shards. CP is a major way to help cover latest 5* so when the devs remove CP from champ rewards and from progression rewards it makes it more difficult to cover latest 5*. It might feel small 6CP per event but with the CP loss from champ rewards it will take longer to get enough CP and LT to champ a new 5*. This is actually slowing down progression and making it more difficult for players. I like shards and the ability to earn more shards but don’t want to lose my ability to champ the next 5* becuase I can’t earn enough CP and LT which is why I feel my question is fair Nd asking for an explanation rather than a complaint.

Thank you for reminding me that my opinion does matter here, my concern was more about whether it was valid considering my level I’m the game. I’m only now getting close to being able to begin playing CL9, so 10 currently feels a long way off.

I appreciate your point about considering the loss of cp in champ rewards, but wouldn’t these shards make up for it, seeing as they all eventually contribute to the same resource of 4 & 5* covers.

Unless as someone else suggested, the shards are not unassigned ones, in which case, it will lose any versatility and not be as good as I had hoped.

i just want to see old/new comparisons for CL 8 & 9 though, as those are what actually matter to me for now

So to look at the idea that shards make up for the CP lost think about it this way. If your goal is to be able to get enough pulls in the latest legendary store to cover 3 5* to 450 when they come into Latest Legendary packs shards help some but not as much as pulls. You want to get around 350 pulls to cover 3 5*. That will be using tokens and CP. well with the champion rewards being reduced and now the CP is reduced in progression rewards it is harder to get to the 350 pulls. Now you can favorite the latest 5* but the reality is you only want to favorite 1 since in CL 10 it is about 1 cover every 4 events.

I don’t see the reason why we should get less CP than before when 5* shards could just be an addition to progression instead of removing rewards considering we have 40 5* in the game and 5* dilution will start to become a problem. The answer on my opinion should not be shards instead of CP it should be shards on top of the CP we have already been getting. This will allow players like yourself to get more 5* covered and get future 5* while players in my situation will still be able to get the latest 5* rather than picking and choosing which latest 5* I can reasonably cover.

the reality is also this with the new level increase in CL10 if you don’t have the essential 5* champed or at least high level it will be really hard to play let alone complete. This is why keeping the CP at 40 or increasing CP with shards should happen in my mind.

A_Wise_Man · February 2020

wymtime said:

show previous quotes

MrEd95 said:

wymtime said:

MrEd95 said:

wymtime said:

@IceIX

I am reading more and want to understand the philosophy behind some of the changes. In CL9 today from a 3-4 day event in progression you can earn 40CP. Now In CL 10 you can earn 34 CP and 250 shards.

With CL10 being more difficult than CL9 why the reduction in CP? Why not just add 5* shards to the rewards for CL10? For comparison PVP is getting more CP and 5* shards added and it has become easier to get the CP.

also with in increase in CL in PVE will the 5* essential node give out 4 CP instead of 3 like in CL9.

With a loss of 6 cp (just over 20% of a latest pull, of which you are getting a 15% of any of 9 possible covers) you 1/2 of a cover for any 5* character you want. I’m no mathematician, but that seems like a big improvement. I really don't see why there is any reason to complain there.

Sure, it would be nice to get both, but its still a big increase in rewards, and it is more directed to what you want. Its 1 5* cover every week for progression, and none of it down to chance.

That being said, i still play CL8, and theres no chance of me getting to CL10 any time soon, so i don't even know why I’m bothering with my opinion on the matter

1st you should never feel that your opinion does does not matter because you play a lower CL. Your opinion is valid and from where you are in the game.

2nd I am looking for an explanation more than a complaint. I will say with the inclusion of shards the ability to earn CP and HP had been reduced by the inclusion of shards. It has become add shards and lose CP and HP.

my question is why should be lose rewards with the addition of shards. CP is a major way to help cover latest 5* so when the devs remove CP from champ rewards and from progression rewards it makes it more difficult to cover latest 5*. It might feel small 6CP per event but with the CP loss from champ rewards it will take longer to get enough CP and LT to champ a new 5*. This is actually slowing down progression and making it more difficult for players. I like shards and the ability to earn more shards but don’t want to lose my ability to champ the next 5* becuase I can’t earn enough CP and LT which is why I feel my question is fair Nd asking for an explanation rather than a complaint.

Thank you for reminding me that my opinion does matter here, my concern was more about whether it was valid considering my level I’m the game. I’m only now getting close to being able to begin playing CL9, so 10 currently feels a long way off.

I appreciate your point about considering the loss of cp in champ rewards, but wouldn’t these shards make up for it, seeing as they all eventually contribute to the same resource of 4 & 5* covers.

Unless as someone else suggested, the shards are not unassigned ones, in which case, it will lose any versatility and not be as good as I had hoped.

i just want to see old/new comparisons for CL 8 & 9 though, as those are what actually matter to me for now

So to look at the idea that shards make up for the CP lost think about it this way. If your goal is to be able to get enough pulls in the latest legendary store to cover 3 5* to 450 when they come into Latest Legendary packs shards help some but not as much as pulls. You want to get around 350 pulls to cover 3 5*. That will be using tokens and CP. well with the champion rewards being reduced and now the CP is reduced in progression rewards it is harder to get to the 350 pulls. Now you can favorite the latest 5* but the reality is you only want to favorite 1 since in CL 10 it is about 1 cover every 4 events.

I don’t see the reason why we should get less CP than before when 5* shards could just be an addition to progression instead of removing rewards considering we have 40 5* in the game and 5* dilution will start to become a problem. The answer on my opinion should not be shards instead of CP it should be shards on top of the CP we have already been getting. This will allow players like yourself to get more 5* covered and get future 5* while players in my situation will still be able to get the latest 5* rather than picking and choosing which latest 5* I can reasonably cover.

the reality is also this with the new level increase in CL10 if you don’t have the essential 5* champed or at least high level it will be really hard to play let alone complete. This is why keeping the CP at 40 or increasing CP with shards should happen in my mind.

Technically they didn't cut the cp in cl10, that's how it's rolling out. You can bet the cp in 9 will be down about 25% or a total of 30cp per event instead of 40. You can also bet you wont get half a cover by playing 9 to progression, but maybe 1/20 to 1/4 of a cover at most.
Consider also that just looking at the ranges of the event in the preview put it 25% higher overall in scaling. At the top end that's 100+ levels or *twice* as much health for the AI. So there's a huge batch of players that won't even be able to play cl10.
Oh, and its hidden in another thread but we've got a 5,4,5 on release so we may be back to *that* pace now that shards and cl10 are out.
TLDR: Increase pulls needed for BH, cut HP and CP from champs, cut HP and CP from events, lock shards for 5s in a CL most cannot play, speed up the release schedule. Good luck keeping up!

Freelancer · February 2020

All these reward table restructures would have been a great time to add at least 1 Support Token in the reward list...

The progression rewards for PvE SCL10 have got me contemplating a switch to 'progression only' play. Probably take me the same amount of total time as competitive play in SCL 7/8/9 would, but at least it will be at any time I want instead of only sub transition times. I can't really make the choice without seeing the info of the new progression and placement rewards for SCL 7/8/9, which were disappointingly, but unsurprisingly, left out of the main announcement...

Vhailorx · February 2020

Yepyep said:

show previous quotes

Vhailorx said:

HoundofShadow said:

I find the HP reduction negligible because more Heroic, Mighty Tokens, 4* shards and 4* covers mean that you can reach better champion rewards faster, and it also speed up your favourite shards a little faster as well.

But champion rewards also have less HP. And the cost of roster slots has not changed, so has the real $ cost of HP. Nerfing the HP distribution rate is a *big* change to the MPQ economy, as a lot of other resources boil down to a value based on HP.

And as I said, I am skeptical changes that significantly reduce my income of discretionary resources (things I can spend on a variety of goods to suit my particular needs) and replace them with fixed goods (e.g., shards, covers etc). It's like stores that give you full value on return for store credit, versus those that offer cash refunds.

Again: precisely. They have locked in the profits; swap-outs have no impact on booked profit. (Are you an economist, @Vhailorx?)

Well, this is an internet message board where my credentials will never be questioned, right?

Then yeah, I'm DEFINITELY an economist. A really famous, well-respected one too! You should all listen to me.

This rollout of CL10 is looking like, at best, a VERY mixed bag for players. And the aggregate of all the recent changes to MPQ clearly indicate that demi/d3 are looking to wring more blood from the stone. If players don't push back, this game will become more expensive for many players.

A_Wise_Man · February 2020

Freelancer said:

All these reward table restructures would have been a great time to add at least 1 Support Token in the reward list...

The progression rewards for PvE SCL10 have got me contemplating a switch to 'progression only' play. Probably take me the same amount of total time as competitive play in SCL 7/8/9 would, but at least it will be at any time I want instead of only sub transition times. I can't really make the choice without seeing the info of the new progression and placement rewards for SCL 7/8/9, which were disappointingly, but unsurprisingly, left out of the main announcement...

It is very doubtful that it will take the same amount of time. If it stops at 650 you can expect probably a level 600 5 star node and a level 500 or so hard node. 100 levels higher means double health for the A.I. This isnt just going through and Thanos/grocket/guardian or juggernaut/grocket/guardian or whatever you're using in lower CL. If it ends up how it *looks* I'd expect time invested to at least double.

Rhipf · February 2020

bluewolf said:

The PVP competition will change a lot. People who are Shield Rank 120+ will no longer be able to play in SCL7, so people like you will be able to compete much better there.

The problem with this is that Shield Rank doesn't really have much correlation to the strength of your roster. If the cut-off is really going to be 120+ can only play CL8+ then Kletvar could very well be bumped up to only playing CL8+ and thus won't be able to compete any better than before (and quite possibly be less able to compete).

P.S. I have a lower roster than Kletvar (no champed 4*s) and I will now be bumped up to CL8 instead of playing CL7 if the cut-off is going to be SR120+ (I'm currently at SR 130).

HoundofShadow · February 2020

Is PvP CL7 easier to get top 5 or 10 placement compared to CL 9? The last time I played CL 7, the scores were as inflated as CL9 and only the "inner circles" can hit that kind of scores consistently.

The only true downside is getting cut off from SCL 6 because that is the place where I could get top 1 in PvP placement as a 3* player in the past. Anything past SCL 6 is either top 50 or 100.

bluewolf · February 2020

Rhipf said:

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bluewolf said:

The PVP competition will change a lot. People who are Shield Rank 120+ will no longer be able to play in SCL7, so people like you will be able to compete much better there.

The problem with this is that Shield Rank doesn't really have much correlation to the strength of your roster. If the cut-off is really going to be 120+ can only play CL8+ then Kletvar could very well be bumped up to only playing CL8+ and thus won't be able to compete any better than before (and quite possibly be less able to compete).

P.S. I have a lower roster than Kletvar (no champed 4*s) and I will now be bumped up to CL8 instead of playing CL7 if the cut-off is going to be SR120+ (I'm currently at SR 130).

That is an issue the game has, I agree. Not sure the devs have any real answer. They do not have any good tools, from what I can tell, to parse roster strength effectively. The guy who has champed Emma, Falcap, Dino and XFDP is in the same MMR as the one with Rocket, Vulture, Gamora and Chavez.

The game is quite old.....problems abound. Ask some of the guys who came back in when shards were introduced how it is having old champed 5s and nothing else.

@HoundofShadow

You don't need to coordinate but you would need to shield hop to place well. I assume that holds true when most of the 5* players get shoved upwards out of 7. If you don't like giant scores on the leaderboard go to slice 5 (or 2).

HoundofShadow · February 2020

I'm still a 4* player so it's going to be difficult for me to shield hop. What's the range of top 10 placement scores in slice 5?

ThaRoadWarrior · February 2020

^ up in the 1st World Problems tier, the guy who has a champed Ghost Rider: Robbie Reyes and a few 360 5*s, but no 4*s above 300 is in the same MMR as someone with Kitty and max-champ 4ocket #AskMeHowIKnow

ThaRoadWarrior · February 2020

HoundofShadow said:

I'm still a 4* player so it's going to be difficult for me to shield hop. What's the range of top 10 placement scores in slice 5?

As an F2P player, it's not going to get any easier in that regard it sounds like with the HP throttling

bluewolf · February 2020

HoundofShadow said:

I'm still a 4* player so it's going to be difficult for me to shield hop. What's the range of top 10 placement scores in slice 5?

It's a bit unknown since it's been a long time since they created the SCLs and lockouts. I would guess that hitting 900-1000 could come close in 7 once the bigger rosters can't play there.

Try it and see for a few events.

HoundofShadow · February 2020

I don't shield hop anyway. My ultimate goal in PvP is to hit 1200 regularly without shield hopping, which seems to be achievable by champed 5* players.

My Shield Rank is already higher than 130, so it's a guarantee that I will be locked out of SCL 7. Maybe I will pop in to slice 5 again to see if things have changed.

PinkoMcFlyToo · February 2020

HoundofShadow said:

I don't shield hop anyway. My ultimate goal in PvP is to hit 1200 regularly without shield hopping, which seems to be achievable by champed 5* players.

My Shield Rank is already higher than 130, so it's a guarantee that I will be locked out of SCL 7. Maybe I will pop in to slice 5 again to see if things have changed.

Not sure 1.2 without shielding is easy in slice 5.
Much more possible in slice 1.
There's always the reasonable 75 wins every event.

Kletvar · February 2020

Rhipf said:

bluewolf said:

The PVP competition will change a lot. People who are Shield Rank 120+ will no longer be able to play in SCL7, so people like you will be able to compete much better there.

The problem with this is that Shield Rank doesn't really have much correlation to the strength of your roster. If the cut-off is really going to be 120+ can only play CL8+ then Kletvar could very well be bumped up to only playing CL8+ and thus won't be able to compete any better than before (and quite possibly be less able to compete).

P.S. I have a lower roster than Kletvar (no champed 4*s) and I will now be bumped up to CL8 instead of playing CL7 if the cut-off is going to be SR120+ (I'm currently at SR 130).

If they send SR120+ players to CL8+ i'm safe for the next 16 levels. SR 104 right now

Upcoming Feature: S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Level 10

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