Upcoming Feature: S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Level 10

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Comments

  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kletvar said:
    jamesh said:

    What you are seeing is a direct result of how the game mode and its rewards are structured.  Since PVP doesn't segregate players by clearance level and the SCL 7+ progression rewards are so similar, players are going to choose their clearance level based on what gives the best progression rewards.

    Lets say that I can make a top 25 finish in SCL 7, but can only manage top 100 in SCL 9.  That means I've got a choice of winning 2* covers in SCL 9 or 3* covers in SCL 7, which makes the choice obvious.

    This change looks like it might finally break that cycle.  The progression and placement rewards look significantly improved in the higher clearance levels that I can live with lower placement.  Even a top 400/500 finish in SCL 10 will give me 5% of a 5* cover, which requires a top 1 finish in SCL 7.

    Of course, the introduction of the new clearance level also means that SCL 7 will be locked off to most long time players.  I guess we'll have to see how SCL 8 compares to SCL 10 when the new season starts.

    i feel like the conversation took a massive turn from the point where i replied to Crowl, so i don't feel like discussing it further.
    Anyway, here's the roster of the player that's #1 in my slice in SCL7 in PVP *redacted* and here's a proof that he's in my slice and not a random player i found *redacted*

    My point was that this behaviour is a direct consequence of the reward structure.  Under the new system, a player like that will probably be restricted to SCL 8+, so the maximum placement rewards he can get for first place in SCL 8 are:

    • 30x 5* shards
    • 1x 4* cover plus 440x shards
    • 2x 3* coverrs plus 400x shards
    • 3x heroic tokens

    In SCL 10, a top 25 finish will give similar rewards with more than twice as many 5* shards.  And if the 5* shards are all you care about, you can get 30 of them for a top 300 finish in SCL 10.

    It finally looks like it is in players' best interest to pick the highest clearance level available to them.  I'm sure there will still be a few who try playing down in lower levels, but they'd need to be very sure there aren't enough other people doing the same to knock them out of the top rewards.  In most cases, it doesn't seem worth the risk.

  • jackstar0
    jackstar0 Posts: 1,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    The upgrade of the Heroic 10-pack at 4k for the season to 10xMighty is welcome.

    And for this season, I can definitely make use of 2 extra Northstar covers for my 2/2/2... gotta wait and see how this plays out.

    PvE is definitely going to be interesting.
  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    **Mod note: Just a reminder that it is against the rules to post screenshots that display a player's name and to call out a player who is not on the forum, with the exception of congratulatory posts. We ask that you contact Customer Service if you suspect a player of cheating. Thank you.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,093 Chairperson of the Boards
    That all seems quite good to me on a personal basis. The shift of HP to 725 is again new player unfriendly but not an impossible hurdle to overcome.

    I saw somebody mention they have nerfed Alliance HP - any details? As somebody who has just spent a month encouraging higher placement finishes for his Alliance to help offset the loss of Champ levels HP, this news will be both disturbing and potentially result in a mini-tantrum like the utter brat I am.

  • Projectus2501
    Projectus2501 Posts: 218 Tile Toppler
    I'm happy to see a constructive discussion and no big fuss by the introduction of the much feared cl10. Sounds great
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,093 Chairperson of the Boards
    OJSP said:
    DAZ0273 said: 
    I saw somebody mention they have nerfed Alliance HP - any details?
    We get less HP for the alliance rewards for t100 when we compare CL10's rewards to the old CL9 rewards. But, we get more tokens. The t101-500 alliances get more HP. I didn't see what the alliance rewards are for the new CL9.

    Thank you. OJSP.
  • AXP_isme
    AXP_isme Posts: 809 Critical Contributor
    I’d be interested to get more of a design perspective on the user journey. Looking at the info we have available I’m struggling to see how, for example, scoring well in level 9 pve prepares you for level 10. 

    For CL10 it looks like you’ll need a deep and strong roster of 5*s to be able to complete the nodes at the top end of the difficulty scale. Even consistently scoring in the top 10 of CL9 will get you a few 5* shards from a constantly rotating selection. With the number of 5* characters, not to mention the equivalent situation in 4* land, it seems like you would need to be t10 in the CL below for an extended period of time, a year or more, before you even think about transitioning up a level. 

    Some kind of guidance on how the designers expect the game to be played would be really useful here. It should explain how and when to think about bridging the gaps between CLs. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2020
    I think it's difficult for them to give a guide on how to play or progress because there are a lot of factors involved such as:

    1) players' own playstyles
    2) availability of time to spend on the game each day
    3) goals players set for themselves 
    4) competitiveness of the players

    For example, some 3* players choose to go to higher SCLs such as 7 or 8 despite taking a longer time to get full progression and end up getting low placements.

    On the other hand, we have veterans (multiple champed 4* or maybe 5*) going down to SCL 4 or so because they want to chill. 

    Because the progression rewards in the game are fixed and more or less predictable, players are the one who determine how to play the game.  

  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,729 Chairperson of the Boards
    OJSP said:
    DAZ0273 said: 
    I saw somebody mention they have nerfed Alliance HP - any details?
    We get less HP for the alliance rewards for t100 when we compare CL10's rewards to the old CL9 rewards. But, we get more tokens. The t101-500 alliances get more HP. I didn't see what the alliance rewards are for the new CL9.
    Comparing SCL9 alliance placement HP:

    Old
    1 -2 - 250 hp
    3-10 - 150 hp
    11-25 - 100 hp
    26-50 - 100 hp
    51 - 100 - 100 hp

    New
    1-2  150 hp
    3-10 100 hp
    11-25 90 hp
    26-50 70 hp
    51-100 60 hp

    You do get more tokens as was mentioned and shards means you get more than a single 3* cover.  Iso and Riso are going down too.

    I mean sure it stinks if you want more HP and less 3* shards, but this is what it is, I guess?  It's still better to place higher if you can than not.  I think it's quite clear that no matter what reward table you look at and compare for old vs new, the devs are giving you shards and maybe some more/better tokens and taking away currency.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,093 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    OJSP said:
    DAZ0273 said: 
    I saw somebody mention they have nerfed Alliance HP - any details?
    We get less HP for the alliance rewards for t100 when we compare CL10's rewards to the old CL9 rewards. But, we get more tokens. The t101-500 alliances get more HP. I didn't see what the alliance rewards are for the new CL9.
    Comparing SCL9 alliance placement HP:

    Old
    1 -2 - 250 hp
    3-10 - 150 hp
    11-25 - 100 hp
    26-50 - 100 hp
    51 - 100 - 100 hp

    New
    1-2  150 hp
    3-10 100 hp
    11-25 90 hp
    26-50 70 hp
    51-100 60 hp

    You do get more tokens as was mentioned and shards means you get more than a single 3* cover.  Iso and Riso are going down too.

    I mean sure it stinks if you want more HP and less 3* shards, but this is what it is, I guess?  It's still better to place higher if you can than not.  I think it's quite clear that no matter what reward table you look at and compare for old vs new, the devs are giving you shards and maybe some more/better tokens and taking away currency.

    Well it basically moves me into deciding what to do with the 3* tier. I have maxchamped everybody at least once but there are a few who I sold and re-rostered and another bunch where I have dupes. My original plan was to dupe everybody but I may just now finish the ones who are in the wild and then plan from there based upon strategic 4* shards via 3* champ rewards.

    I never wanted shards and so don't feel too inclined to reward them with HP purchases or multiple roster slot purchases for taking away large chunks of what I was earning.

    We'll see how it goes, maybe it will be fine.
  • AXP_isme
    AXP_isme Posts: 809 Critical Contributor
    I get that the decision for going up or down a CL belong solely to the individual (gating by SCL aside). I’m interested in whether there’s a coherent user journey bi would expect there to be a mid-range target:
    spend x amount of time at some level at an average play should generate y amount of resource in the expectation that there are resource thresholds that are intended (may, even designed) to be met before you progress to the next level of difficulty or challenge for which CL is a proxy. 

    You have to assume that there’s some kind of balancing metric that covers the combination of resources earned - covers, iso, HP, CP, riso... since so much is controlled by RNG that it’s not worth trying to project on an individual by individual basis. Resources earned should be correlated with time spent in-game so that more play means more resources earned. By doing that you abstract the fact that the same overall resource amount could, in one situation be an unspectacular but solid 3* roster and in another a meta-character powered 4* roster thanks to the vagaries of RNG. That level of earned resource is what should, at a macro level, drive user behaviour towards a particular level of challenge or achievement. 

    My concern here is twofold. Firstly that the time to move between CLs is prohibitive. Secondly that the CLs have been updated without regard to the resource levels but in a vacuum. 

    The pool of available resources continues to grow but the rate at which you acquire them doesn’t. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that type of inflationary (or deflationary depending on your viewpoint) model but it does require periodic rebalancing of either the model assumptions or the resource acquisition rates. The model assumptions look off kilter to me, but that could be because I can’t see the big picture, and that’s coming in to focus particularly sharply when you see these new difficulty hurdles being inserted. 
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2020
    I'm very curious what the new/mid-core player experience is going to look like with all these changes. I plan to continue playing the highest SCL available to me to progression and spending as I go until next-out is covered, and see how possible it's going to be for me to stay current. I've started holding on to resources once I get that oldest one covered, which I kind of wish I'd started doing sooner, but I don't regret having a good profe$$or x.

    My alliance has a solid spread of what look like brand new rosters, 3-4* transitioners, and then myself as (i believe) the only transitional 5* player. We don't really chat a ton, or show up for alliance events lol. But I've posed the question to them all to see what they are all feeling about shards at this point.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,093 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2020
    I always played the highest PvP SCL as my experience was that my average score didn't really affect placement too much between 7 through 9 and I could normally get Top 50 and be happy with that. I can see SCL10 being more competetive but hopefully that just means more brackets. It also helps that a substantial base of MPQ players do not understand what SCL means in PvP and so handicap themselves in the belief that they are getting easier fights... :)

    The big one I am watching is PvE. Even though I have a high enough SR to play 10, it looks like suicide to me but I am hoping that maybe some of the big boys will move up. I used to play up in 9 for new releases and if I had a deep covered boost list, that also might be worth looking at depending on what happens with 8. I assume 7 will mostly get abandoned to the 3-4* transition tier which is where it should be to be fair but who knows?
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,758 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said

    The big one I am watching is PvE. Even though I have a high enough SR to play 10, it looks like suicide to me but I am hoping that maybe some of the big boys will move up. I used to play up in 9 for new releases and if I had a deep covered boost list, that also might be worth looking at depending on what happens with 8. I assume 7 will mostly get abandoned to the 3-4* transition tier which is where it should be to be fair but who knows?
    Great point on PVE.  I think a lot of players will try CL10 and see how it feels to them.  How hard will it be, how long does it take to do full clears and are the rewards worth the time commitment and challenge.

    i think the hard core players will play CL10.  I also think a lot of players will still drop down a CL or 2 or even 3 based on if they have the essential 5* champed and how much time they have to play.  

    If it takes players an hour for close and open players might say CL8 takes 20 min and I will stay there.

    it will be interesting to watch
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'll be super curious to see where a new-release cover will land in the placement rewards in SCL10 as well; I found I could play pretty lazy in 9 and still get a cover because people would often drop down. I could just green-check subs 1 and 2 reasonably apart from each other, then walk away from sub 3 after initial clears and still hit t200 for a cover without a lot of challenge.
  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,414 Chairperson of the Boards
    I imagine I will stay in CL9 for now.  I have no desire to increase the amount of time I spend on the game and the rewards I miss out on aren't worth the extra time.  Maybe I will do CL10 when 5Thor, Kitty, Okoye, Thanos or PX are boosted.  But that's about it.
  • MoosePrime
    MoosePrime Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    Can we get a preview of the node rewards for Level 10?  Are there any changes to the lower levels?

  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,299 Chairperson of the Boards
    What I want to see is what do the new progression/placement rewards for SCL 9 PvE look like.  I also want to see what is the difficulty level of opponents in each node clear for the new SCL 10 PvE to know how fast difficulty ramps.  I would like to see this before I have to choose a SCL to join on 2/9 as well.  

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