Upcoming Feature: S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Level 10

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  • MrEd95
    MrEd95 Posts: 280 Mover and Shaker
    wymtime said:
    MrEd95 said:
    wymtime said:
    @IceIX

    I am reading more and want to understand the philosophy behind some of the changes.  In CL9 today from a 3-4 day event in progression you can earn 40CP.  Now In CL 10 you can earn 34 CP and 250 shards.  

    With CL10 being more difficult than CL9 why the reduction in CP?  Why not just add 5* shards to the rewards for CL10?  For comparison PVP is getting more CP and 5* shards added and it has become easier to get the CP.

    also with in increase in CL in PVE will the 5* essential node give out 4 CP instead of 3 like in CL9.



    With a loss of 6 cp (just over 20% of a latest pull, of which you are getting a 15% of any of 9 possible covers) you 1/2 of a cover for any 5* character you want. I’m no mathematician, but that seems like a big improvement. I really don't see why there is any reason to complain there.

    Sure, it would be nice to get both, but its still a big increase in rewards, and it is more directed to what you want. Its 1 5* cover every week for progression, and none of it down to chance.

    That being said, i still play CL8, and theres no chance of me getting to CL10 any time soon, so i don't even know why I’m bothering with my opinion on the matter
    1st you should never feel that your opinion does does not matter because you play a lower CL.  Your opinion is valid and from where you are in the game.

    2nd I am looking for an explanation more than a complaint.  I will say with the inclusion of shards the ability to earn CP and HP had been reduced by the inclusion of shards.  It has become add shards and lose CP and HP.

    my question is why should be lose rewards with the addition of shards.  CP is a major way to help cover latest 5* so when the devs remove CP from champ rewards and from progression rewards it makes it more difficult to cover latest 5*.  It might feel small 6CP per event but with the CP loss from champ rewards it will take longer to get enough CP and LT to champ a new 5*.  This is actually slowing down progression and making it more difficult for players.  I like shards and the ability to earn more shards but don’t want to lose my ability to champ the next 5* becuase I can’t earn enough CP and LT which is why I feel my question is fair Nd asking for an explanation rather than a complaint.
    Thank you for reminding me that my opinion does matter here, my concern was more about whether it was valid considering my level I’m the game. I’m only now getting close to being able to begin playing CL9, so 10 currently feels a long way off.

    I appreciate your point about considering the loss of cp in champ rewards, but wouldn’t these shards make up for it, seeing as they all eventually contribute to the same resource of 4 & 5* covers.

    Unless as someone else suggested, the shards are not unassigned ones, in which case, it will lose any versatility and not be as good as I had hoped.

    i just want to see old/new comparisons for CL 8 & 9 though, as those are what actually matter to me for now
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kletvar said:
    bluewolf said:
    Kletvar said:
    Crowl said:
    Cheetah1982 said:
    Is there any hope of updating the tiers to balance competition. I’m of the very strong opinion players with champed 5 star characters should not be allowed to join SCL 7.
    Some people value lower time demands over the higher rewards, why should they be forced to move to a higher scl to make things easier for lesser rosters?
    Because I, a player with 9 championed 4*s and few 5*s(almost all on level 255, and not covers on them(except prof x)) don't like to lose rewards because some lazy players with lvl 400+ Kitty and some other massive 5*s (Thor, Okoye) are wrecking PVE SCL7 in 10 minutes. And i'm sure i'm not the only one with this issue. 

    And the same goes for PVP. And PVP is waaaaay worse. It's David vs Goliath, except Goliath wins all the time and takes the first 10-15 places, and we, the lesser players are left with the crumbs once again because of some lazy bullies. 

    And if this is normal or fair to you, you got morality issues and 0 common sense.
    The PVP competition will change a lot.  People who are Shield Rank 120+ will no longer be able to play in SCL7, so people like you will be able to compete much better there.  Of course you will still be getting hit by bigger rosters, but at least they won't be on your leaderboard.

    PVE is a harder nut to crack because it is nice for players to have the flexibility to choose their SCL and rewards that appeal to them.  This is especially true in light of the massive number of characters that you might need but not have rostered despite having, maybe, some champed 4's (or even 5s).  Hopefully SCL10 and the better rewards will draw bigger rosters upwards to 8, 9 and 10, leaving more spots in SCL7 for champed 4 rosters.

    Also, it's worth considering that building a big roster is partly about giving yourself options.  This includes taking on easier scls sometimes for faster clears.  I know it's frustrating but it's hard to see them ever restricting people from selecting any SCL in PVE that they want.
    I think you misunderstood me.
    I didn't blame the developers, i blamed people like Crowl who justify bullies' actions. Having a championed 5* and going to do PVE or PVP on SCL 7 (or lower SCL in PVE) is like a high school senior going to fifth graders and fighting them. Is that normal or morally ok? No, i don't think so. 

    And it's great they will restrict SCL7 in PVP after the update so players with high level accounts won't be able to play it, so they will have to fight a bit harder opponents and not a bunch of newbies like they are doing now.

    What you are seeing is a direct result of how the game mode and its rewards are structured.  Since PVP doesn't segregate players by clearance level and the SCL 7+ progression rewards are so similar, players are going to choose their clearance level based on what gives the best progression rewards.

    Lets say that I can make a top 25 finish in SCL 7, but can only manage top 100 in SCL 9.  That means I've got a choice of winning 2* covers in SCL 9 or 3* covers in SCL 7, which makes the choice obvious.

    This change looks like it might finally break that cycle.  The progression and placement rewards look significantly improved in the higher clearance levels that I can live with lower placement.  Even a top 400/500 finish in SCL 10 will give me 5% of a 5* cover, which requires a top 1 finish in SCL 7.

    Of course, the introduction of the new clearance level also means that SCL 7 will be locked off to most long time players.  I guess we'll have to see how SCL 8 compares to SCL 10 when the new season starts.

  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    **snip** I have not seen comments about players increasing their monthly spendings to the next tier when dev adds in major rewards, but many comments about stopping or reducing spendings when tradeoffs happen. **snip**
    Oh, so d3 can look forward to you doubling what you spend on the game now then? Awesome! 

    Let's see, what is twice of nothing? Oh, it's still nothing? Tough break,  d3! Better luck next time! 

    I appreciate the increased rewards, but there's something like 203 unique characters in the game. This is like getting some extra vacation days or sick leave while your salary stays flat (or is actually cut) while the price of gas/groceries/rent creeps ever higher.

    It's nice and all, and definitely helps in some ways (should be easier to cover characters while in Latest despite CP reductions), but in other ways is actively a detriment. 

    I'll see how it plays out over the next several months, but I'm currently at 286 slots, and will be hitting the dreaded 300 mark soon enough. With the cut to HP, I might have to look at changing how I play PvP.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    Also, judging from the Sneak Peek thread, it looks like placement/progression rewards will indeed be tied to the 5* essential for the event. 

    I really didn't think the bean counters would let them give away shards through placement/progression on Latest characters like that. I was wrong. 

    I'm torn on this. It will make it easier to get characters covered before they leave Latest, and that *is* nice. But I was hoping this would be a way to feature Classic 5*s more often to help get them covered better. Now we'll basically get one shot at them each year (or longer) when they're the 5*E and that's it. Not really doing much to help get older characters covered if you missed them when they were in Latest. 😕
  • Yepyep
    Yepyep Posts: 954 Critical Contributor
    Vhailorx said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    I find the HP reduction negligible because more Heroic, Mighty Tokens, 4* shards and 4* covers mean that you can reach better champion rewards faster, and it also speed up your favourite shards a little faster as well. 

    But champion rewards also have less HP.  And the cost of roster slots has not changed, so has the real $ cost of HP.  Nerfing the HP distribution rate is a *big* change to the MPQ economy, as a lot of other resources boil down to a value based on HP. 

    And as I said, I am skeptical changes that significantly reduce my income of discretionary resources (things I can spend on a variety of goods to suit my particular needs) and replace them with fixed goods (e.g., shards, covers etc).  It's like stores that give you full value on return for store credit, versus those that offer cash refunds.
    Again: precisely. They have locked in the profits; swap-outs have no impact on booked profit. (Are you an economist, @Vhailorx?)
  • Yepyep
    Yepyep Posts: 954 Critical Contributor
    edited February 2020
    HoundofShadow said:
    Champion rewards are not only about HP.
    EVERYTHING in the game is only about HP. All other resources in the game will arrive in time, with patience.

    But ultimately, HP must be purchased with rent/food/retirement money. Enforced by dilution’s demand for roster slots. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    DarthDeVo said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    **snip** I have not seen comments about players increasing their monthly spendings to the next tier when dev adds in major rewards, but many comments about stopping or reducing spendings when tradeoffs happen. **snip**
    Oh, so d3 can look forward to you doubling what you spend on the game now then? Awesome! 

    Let's see, what is twice of nothing? Oh, it's still nothing? Tough break,  d3! Better luck next time! 

    I appreciate the increased rewards, but there's something like 203 unique characters in the game. This is like getting some extra vacation days or sick leave while your salary stays flat (or is actually cut) while the price of gas/groceries/rent creeps ever higher.

    It's nice and all, and definitely helps in some ways (should be easier to cover characters while in Latest despite CP reductions), but in other ways is actively a detriment. 

    I'll see how it plays out over the next several months, but I'm currently at 286 slots, and will be hitting the dreaded 300 mark soon enough. With the cut to HP, I might have to look at changing how I play PvP.

    As MPQ doesn't have a dedicated Community Manager (sorry IceIX but we know you are on multi-tasks) at this moment they are already saving real life dollars, they could afford to give the players a "pay rise"! ;)
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,759 Chairperson of the Boards
    MrEd95 said:
    wymtime said:
    MrEd95 said:
    wymtime said:
    @IceIX

    I am reading more and want to understand the philosophy behind some of the changes.  In CL9 today from a 3-4 day event in progression you can earn 40CP.  Now In CL 10 you can earn 34 CP and 250 shards.  

    With CL10 being more difficult than CL9 why the reduction in CP?  Why not just add 5* shards to the rewards for CL10?  For comparison PVP is getting more CP and 5* shards added and it has become easier to get the CP.

    also with in increase in CL in PVE will the 5* essential node give out 4 CP instead of 3 like in CL9.



    With a loss of 6 cp (just over 20% of a latest pull, of which you are getting a 15% of any of 9 possible covers) you 1/2 of a cover for any 5* character you want. I’m no mathematician, but that seems like a big improvement. I really don't see why there is any reason to complain there.

    Sure, it would be nice to get both, but its still a big increase in rewards, and it is more directed to what you want. Its 1 5* cover every week for progression, and none of it down to chance.

    That being said, i still play CL8, and theres no chance of me getting to CL10 any time soon, so i don't even know why I’m bothering with my opinion on the matter
    1st you should never feel that your opinion does does not matter because you play a lower CL.  Your opinion is valid and from where you are in the game.

    2nd I am looking for an explanation more than a complaint.  I will say with the inclusion of shards the ability to earn CP and HP had been reduced by the inclusion of shards.  It has become add shards and lose CP and HP.

    my question is why should be lose rewards with the addition of shards.  CP is a major way to help cover latest 5* so when the devs remove CP from champ rewards and from progression rewards it makes it more difficult to cover latest 5*.  It might feel small 6CP per event but with the CP loss from champ rewards it will take longer to get enough CP and LT to champ a new 5*.  This is actually slowing down progression and making it more difficult for players.  I like shards and the ability to earn more shards but don’t want to lose my ability to champ the next 5* becuase I can’t earn enough CP and LT which is why I feel my question is fair Nd asking for an explanation rather than a complaint.
    Thank you for reminding me that my opinion does matter here, my concern was more about whether it was valid considering my level I’m the game. I’m only now getting close to being able to begin playing CL9, so 10 currently feels a long way off.

    I appreciate your point about considering the loss of cp in champ rewards, but wouldn’t these shards make up for it, seeing as they all eventually contribute to the same resource of 4 & 5* covers.

    Unless as someone else suggested, the shards are not unassigned ones, in which case, it will lose any versatility and not be as good as I had hoped.

    i just want to see old/new comparisons for CL 8 & 9 though, as those are what actually matter to me for now
    So to look at the idea that shards make up for the CP lost think about it this way.  If your goal is to be able to get enough pulls in the latest legendary store to cover 3 5* to 450 when they come into Latest Legendary packs shards help some but not as much as pulls.  You want to get around 350 pulls to cover 3 5*.  That will be using tokens and CP.  well with the champion rewards being reduced and now the CP is reduced in progression rewards it is harder to get to the 350 pulls.  Now you can favorite the latest 5* but the reality is you only want to favorite 1 since in CL 10 it is about 1 cover every 4 events. 

    I don’t see the reason why we should get less CP than before when 5* shards could just be an addition to progression instead of removing rewards considering we have 40 5* in the game and 5* dilution will start to become a problem.  The answer on my opinion should not be shards instead of CP it should be shards on top of the CP we have already been getting.  This will allow players like yourself to get more 5* covered and get future 5* while players in my situation will still be able to get the latest 5* rather than picking and choosing which latest 5* I can reasonably cover.

    the reality is also this with the new level increase in CL10 if you don’t have the essential 5* champed or at least high level it will be really hard to play let alone complete. This is why keeping the CP at 40 or increasing CP with shards should happen in my mind.
  • Freelancer
    Freelancer Posts: 122 Tile Toppler
    All these reward table restructures would have been a great time to add at least 1 Support Token in the reward list...

    The progression rewards for PvE SCL10 have got me contemplating a switch to 'progression only' play. Probably take me the same amount of total time as competitive play in SCL 7/8/9 would, but at least it will be at any time I want instead of only sub transition times. I can't really make the choice without seeing the info of the new progression and placement rewards for SCL 7/8/9, which were disappointingly, but unsurprisingly, left out of the main announcement...
  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    Freelancer said:
    All these reward table restructures would have been a great time to add at least 1 Support Token in the reward list...

    The progression rewards for PvE SCL10 have got me contemplating a switch to 'progression only' play. Probably take me the same amount of total time as competitive play in SCL 7/8/9 would, but at least it will be at any time I want instead of only sub transition times. I can't really make the choice without seeing the info of the new progression and placement rewards for SCL 7/8/9, which were disappointingly, but unsurprisingly, left out of the main announcement...
    It is very doubtful that it will take the same amount of time.   If it stops at 650 you can expect probably a level 600 5 star node and a level 500 or so hard node.  100 levels higher means double health for the A.I.  This isnt just going through and Thanos/grocket/guardian or juggernaut/grocket/guardian or whatever you're using in lower CL.  If it ends up how it *looks* I'd expect time invested to at least double.
  • Rhipf
    Rhipf Posts: 295 Mover and Shaker
    edited February 2020
    bluewolf said:
    The PVP competition will change a lot.  People who are Shield Rank 120+ will no longer be able to play in SCL7, so people like you will be able to compete much better there. 

    The problem with this is that Shield Rank doesn't really have much correlation to the strength of your roster. If the cut-off is really going to be 120+ can only play CL8+ then Kletvar could very well be bumped up to only playing CL8+ and thus won't be able to compete any better than before (and quite possibly be less able to compete).

    P.S. I have a lower roster than Kletvar (no champed 4*s) and I will now be bumped up to CL8 instead of playing CL7 if the cut-off is going to be SR120+ (I'm currently at SR 130).

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2020
    Is PvP CL7 easier to get top 5 or 10 placement compared to CL 9? The last time I played CL 7, the scores were as inflated as CL9 and only the "inner circles" can hit that kind of scores consistently. 

    The only true downside is getting cut off from SCL 6 because that is the place where I could get top 1 in PvP placement as a 3* player in the past. Anything past SCL 6 is either top 50 or 100.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2020
    Rhipf said:
    bluewolf said:
    The PVP competition will change a lot.  People who are Shield Rank 120+ will no longer be able to play in SCL7, so people like you will be able to compete much better there. 

    The problem with this is that Shield Rank doesn't really have much correlation to the strength of your roster. If the cut-off is really going to be 120+ can only play CL8+ then Kletvar could very well be bumped up to only playing CL8+ and thus won't be able to compete any better than before (and quite possibly be less able to compete).

    P.S. I have a lower roster than Kletvar (no champed 4*s) and I will now be bumped up to CL8 instead of playing CL7 if the cut-off is going to be SR120+ (I'm currently at SR 130).

    That is an issue the game has, I agree.  Not sure the devs have any real answer.  They do not have any good tools, from what I can tell, to parse roster strength effectively.  The guy who has champed Emma, Falcap, Dino and XFDP is in the same MMR as the one with Rocket, Vulture, Gamora and Chavez.

    The game is quite old.....problems abound.  Ask some of the guys who came back in when shards were introduced how it is having old champed 5s and nothing else.

    @HoundofShadow

    You don't need to coordinate but you would need to shield hop to place well.  I assume that holds true when most of the 5* players get shoved upwards out of 7.  If you don't like giant scores on the leaderboard go to slice 5 (or 2).
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2020
    I'm still a 4* player so it's going to be difficult for me to shield hop. What's the range of top 10 placement scores in slice 5?
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    ^ up in the 1st World Problems tier, the guy who has a champed Ghost Rider: Robbie Reyes and a few 360 5*s, but no 4*s above 300 is in the same MMR as someone with Kitty and max-champ 4ocket #AskMeHowIKnow
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    I'm still a 4* player so it's going to be difficult for me to shield hop. What's the range of top 10 placement scores in slice 5?
    As an F2P player, it's not going to get any easier in that regard it sounds like with the HP throttling
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    I'm still a 4* player so it's going to be difficult for me to shield hop. What's the range of top 10 placement scores in slice 5?
    It's a bit unknown since it's been a long time since they created the SCLs and lockouts.  I would guess that hitting 900-1000 could come close in 7 once the bigger rosters can't play there.

    Try it and see for a few events.

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