I’ve posted previously on this thread, but after some time to think it through I wanted to provide my total, honest feedback to you, the developers, from a business standpoint. I appreciate the conversations here about fairness, and communication, and what people have the right to expect and what the developers have the right to do. That’s all valid, but ultimately what this comes down to for you, the developers, is was this decision good or bad for business? I can only speak for me, but I’m betting I’m not alone in this.
I think I’m likely an ideal customer for this game. I have a passion for Marvel, for collecting, and I have disposable income. I’ve spent quite a bit on this game, well into 4 figures, because I can and I enjoy it. My GamerID is Andi-Ti, in iOS. I’m sure you can look up my spending habits to validate this.
I’ve seen the argument that this is your game, you can do what you want with it. Accurate, but also shortsighted. Mrs. Fields can decide to serve vomit flavored cookies. Lexus can decide to sell **** cars. It is their decision to do so. However if it drives customers to not spend money on their business, it’s a really short-sighted decision. You see, true business is about a symbiotic relationship with your customers. You have to balance profit and loss decisions with decisions that keep customers returning to spend money. That’s just plain free-market reality.
So I say this to you now, as honest, measured, candid feedback. This update has angered me enough as a consumer that my spending stops until it is addressed in some manner. You now have my GamerID. You can validate that too, at your leisure.
It’s really not relevant whether I’m wrong for wanting to “double-dip”, or I’m not respecting it’s “your game”, or I’m whining over “free stuff”. Your business decision, and how you handled it, angered me as a consumer enough to decide not to spend. It’s up to you what you do with that, but I think you ignore that type of customer sentiment at your peril.
Will I continue to play? Sure. I still love collecting and Marvel. But I am far enough along now that I don’t feel I “need” to spend money to advance. I’m not addicted to the spending enough to override my anger at this decision. To spend again, I’d like to see some acknowledgement that this was handled poorly, and some real, honest attempt to reach out to me as a consumer. Make me feel like you care enough about my satisfaction that I want to spend more money on your game. What does that look like? I don’t know. I’ll leave that for you to decide what a middle ground might be.
Thank you for listening.
PinkoMcFlyToo said: Daredevil217 said:Back on topic, I don’t know what else needs to be said or how much more “data” needs to be collected before we get an official response. We are all sharing our various stories of how we got hurt by this but the running themes are the same. I think we all know the "data" is whether or not their daily/weekly sales are taking a hit.
Daredevil217 said:Back on topic, I don’t know what else needs to be said or how much more “data” needs to be collected before we get an official response. We are all sharing our various stories of how we got hurt by this but the running themes are the same.
AXP_isme said: I can only assume that there are metrics out there suggesting that more items in the larger game economy depresses overall spending. I can’t really see any other reason not to create some good will by showering all the player base with largesse. Seriously, a cover or shard or token or whatever costs almost nothing to give out yet it creates good will and potentially the scenario in which people are more inclined to spend (near a shard threshold, or with extra covers needing to be rostered, for instance). Surely the combination of feeling good about the generosity of the game and the artificial scarcity (or appearance thereof) for a particular commodity creates a more compelling long-term spending paradigm than scarcity alone. Just play Santa! Shower everyone with gifts (and not that crummy: “here’s one token for a vault where you’re almost guaranteed to end up with a 2*” type of generosity we usually get) and make them feel good about MPQ. I’ve played for a long time and I feel closer to the exit now than at any time over the last 5+ years. I will wait to see how shards get built in to the progression rewards but if that follows the same pattern, give with one hand and take with the other, then I think I’ll call it a day. I don’t particularly want to, I enjoy the core mechanic a lot, but I’ve almost completely lost faith.
LLohm said: Dear @IceIX,can you help facilitate a swift resolution with Demiurge so they know what they can expect from Amazon Digital Day?A swift answer with firm resolution will go a long way with us all and we would love to splurge during this holiday period!edited for typo and context
Blergh said: Been a while since I posted, but thought I'd add my two cents to the thread. I play a lot of games. Kind of my job, work for Future across a lot of their properties like PC Gamer, Kotaku, Games Radar and a few other gaming properties. And in all honesty, I think this outcry about champion rewards is a symptom of much bigger problems in the design of the game. I think you guys, like a lot of mobile developers, over-rely on metrics gathered from player behaviour and focus on the numbers too much. I think this kind of makes you forget the most crucial element to any game - the player's emotional invest - or the fun factor. You're entertainment and no one likes living in austerity. You need to make the player feel rewarded for playing, not punished or deprived. It's kind of why achievements/trophies both in-game and on profiles were a big hit. They feel like they've earned something. Make your players feel rewarded. Like they are building something. Getting better - going somewhere. The meaningful rewards high end are so restricted, I don't feel like I'm being rewarding in any meaningful way. I've seen games with the awesome system, imaginative gameplay fail as they didn't have this, while very badly implemented games thrive as they do. In the case of this game, I think a lot that legwork has already been done by the franchise - most people here play other Marvel games - they are emotionally invested in the characters and property already. But, the game itself has never really got this idea or got how rewarding the player generously will get them to invest more, due to a feeling of them getting more out of it.When you compared it to other games, it feels very much like MPQ is going through a recession. It's frustrating. And the more you progress in the game the less rewarding the experience becomes - increasingly see the same enemies, competing for rewards gets harder, the majority of your roster is locked out, and progress halts. So, when you actively take away the few rewards you do give out that help that progression, you get a big backlash. You give them the sense, yes, I am finally gonna get somewhere this character, and you take it away - impeding them. I'll unpack why I personally feel the game is unrewarding, as a lot of it is connected, but expressed in different ways. One of the biggest unrewarding experiences in the game is the way PVE is organised. The way brackets work and the points are regained force you to play to a schedule and strict pattern if you want to earn the top rewards. If a player comes home late from work and has to ask themself whether they have time to make a cup of tea and some toast before they grind, does that sound like a rewarding or unrewarding experience? Or if they have to apologise to the alliance they've let down for not making the grind due to looking after their ill child, does that sound rewarding? So, even before you've begun to play you are creating an atmosphere where the player feels put out by the game. And to a lesser extent, shields in PVP will have the same time restrictions due to length and cool down. So, both aspects of the game need you to have a clear and organised schedule that inhibits the feeling of reward or enjoyment. And wins is kind of too long for 5*s, specially with the colossal healing time. The feeling of having to sacrifice something negates some of the achievements/rewards they get from finishing in a good position. The resentment may be under the surface but it's there. And the further you progress up the star tier, the more you need to play optimally to progress. As what use is a three cover? Or even a four? or Three elites or even a hero? Not much. I have 159 shards towards a five cover - so you know, if I keep playing for the next two months I might get a single five cover, which is pretty useless. In 6 months I might get a working five that makes competing in events easier. Slow. So slow. Sure, I could buy it, but why would I? It's hardly a great investment when compared to other games, more expensive for a character in a game that offers me very little return. In other games, I'd most probably be near to having maxed top tier characters within a few months with spending less money- not a single cover. So, I'll invest more in them - as my return is greater. And they are more fun as I am getting rewarded more often. And that doesn't mean they are giving me more stuff - just making me feel that fun factor or sense of achievement. That I am getting somewhere and getting better. Extra damage across all characters, extra resource collection for levelling up, extra slots to hold stuff, - you know stuff coded in the game that isn't a resource or related to characters. Just unlocked through effort and time. So even though their progress in characters is slow, they are given the illusion of progressing through secondary means - if that makes sense? And there are loads of way you could create this - customizable alliances that level up - can have an x-mansion, stark tower, and stuff. Alliance ranks unlock new features - some kind of resource bonus for levelling up alliances - extra iso - faster heal time. You know there is a lot you could do with that. And you most probably collect a lot of data on damage, amount of enemies down matches won, quickest four clears - just collating at and making it a non-reward best alliance list could be fun to some people - increase competition in a different way. Even achievements locked to characters for bragging rights would be kind of fun. There are numerous ways that you could increase the personal reward, without increasing the actual rewards.Progress seems to halt dramatically too. I recently came back to the game after a little break, and I don't hoard. The CP you removed from champion rewards may have been lower than elsewhere in the game, but it regularly tipped me over the amount I needed to draw a from a 5* store. So, I am already frustrated at the pace of progression and you have hampered the pace again. And your metrics might not show this lack of progression as it expresses it in numbers, but it is going to slow my pull rate down. And since being back I have managed to get 7 Ice-man about 6 professor x and 6 Carnage covers and loads of fours whose release I missed. Numbers alone would say I am progressing - my roster is being built up. But is it meaningful and rewarding to me as a player? The answer is no. A resounding no. Having champed 5*s means the majority of 4*s are useless. They are just a way to access rewards - like CP and LTs or covers. That is the only use I have for them. And you have just reduced their value. There is no excitement or fun there because I am locked out of the tier. There is value but is hardly rewarding. All a new four-star is to me, the majority of the time, is a slow backing invest unlock the rewards I want.It isn't really exciting or fun as I'll never use it beyond a battery for rewards. The same goes for the under-levelled 5*'s I've got. With champed fives, I can't really use them anyway - as they'll be out levelled and classed by MMR or levels. So even though it looks like progress, it doesn't feel like it. At all. It's more frustrating and slow as the majority of the time I am getting nowhere. And not even fast. So, metrics can lie. Luckily, I have largely given up on progressing and just play it to pass the time. Thinking over a feature, or whether a piece of content I am preparing for the next day has the right tone or information for the brand audience - mindless match while I chew over it. But that means I also give the game almost (not totally) zero invest money-wise. You know, no emotional investment. I'm getting nothing from the game. Getting a better return else-where. It's more an effort thing usually - drop tenner or go through the effort. Prrft. I'm pretty lazy. If you look at your player base's comments on this forum, you'll see how frustrated they feel about the progress. It presents in a number of ways, people talking about the dilution of characters, feeling frustrated hoarding for the next good five and wanting to pull but not wanting to be punished for it, or their struggling to tread water by getting all 4*s to 209. None of that talks about progression - in fact, two of the main roster methods are based on halting progression - hoarding and stopping at 450 or building fours to 209 and stopping. Does that seem like a fun way to play? Does it seem rewarding? Does it seem like a good basis for a game with RPG style levelling system?I mean, the reward structure has largely remained the same for a few years. Might insert new currencies, but you never increase them - while increasing the difficulty to build a meaningful roster. Reducing rewards is like reducing the living wage while increasing inflation. It makes it less fun and gives the player base a great sense of austerity. You have to increase the reward element somehow. At least give the illusion of progress and not make people feel like they're just keeping their head above water. There is more to it than this, but I've waffled on for too long. So people aren't really moaning for free stuff. They're moaning as they don't have the resources to grow. They are moaning as they feel unrewarded as if they're not really achieving anything. They feel stagnant. Frustrated. Stuck. And you don't have to fix that by giving out more rewards - or increasing the rewards in progression. Or even providing more ways to earn a reward - although that would help. You just have to make their efforts or investments feel like they are getting rewarded for it. You need to find a way to inject the fun back in for higher rosters, give them that feeling that you're achieving something, not just wasting time or struggling for a 4* cover that won't really give them anything in return, your building something, your progressing - not hitting a dead wall and being punished. Once you looked at metrics, and think about a change - ask if it is rewarding to the player base as a whole - if it will make them go wow and emotionally invest. If not, then it's most probably a bad idea. Think about the whole entertainment aspect. So the biggest problem for me is that the reward system doesn't offer me any rewards in any meaningful way. Others will disagree. But I think that's what you really need to fix to stop massive backlashes.
AndiTi said:I’ve seen the argument that this is your game, you can do what you want with it. Accurate, but also shortsighted. Mrs. Fields can decide to serve vomit flavored cookies. Lexus can decide to sell tinykitty cars. It is their decision to do so. However if it drives customers to not spend money on their business, it’s a really short-sighted decision. You see, true business is about a symbiotic relationship with your customers. You have to balance profit and loss decisions with decisions that keep customers returning to spend money. That’s just plain free-market reality.
I’ve seen the argument that this is your game, you can do what you want with it. Accurate, but also shortsighted. Mrs. Fields can decide to serve vomit flavored cookies. Lexus can decide to sell tinykitty cars. It is their decision to do so. However if it drives customers to not spend money on their business, it’s a really short-sighted decision. You see, true business is about a symbiotic relationship with your customers. You have to balance profit and loss decisions with decisions that keep customers returning to spend money. That’s just plain free-market reality.
BriMan2222 said: We were explicitly told that as long as we had the 4 star on our roster we would get all of the updated 5 star rewards when those changes happen. Whether you think that is "fair" or not, this is what we were told in no uncertain terms would be the norm going forward with next to no warning that this might change.
fmftint said: BriMan2222 said: We were explicitly told that as long as we had the 4 star on our roster we would get all of the updated 5 star rewards when those changes happen. Whether you think that is "fair" or not, this is what we were told in no uncertain terms would be the norm going forward with next to no warning that this might change. Except champ reward were not updated with 5star COVERS they were updated with 5star shards.
bluewolf said: CAttitude said: Practically asking, how far should we promote a new, non-feeder 4 in this shard hellscape? 279? 297? I am worried about CapWorthy in this upcoming Civil War event. This probably needs to be a separate thread but yes, the underlying message for players who care more about eventual 5's than using a high level 4 is to stop at 299.It's just amazing that they are telling us that it hurts us to level people too much.
CAttitude said: Practically asking, how far should we promote a new, non-feeder 4 in this shard hellscape? 279? 297? I am worried about CapWorthy in this upcoming Civil War event.
Loosie said: @IceIX do have any update? Are the devs/d3 actually getting/reading this feedback?Is there any talk of people getting the full shards they should have received or any secondary character shards?