On Retroactive Rewards

Bryan Lambert

GrimSkald said:

gascangascan said:

Mikbro81 said:

Still no response?  Ok....

You also need to factor in - how much of their time is devoted to discussing this. Do they have a meeting with key decision-makers later today? This week? If they are still deciding what to do - and they have no deadline - then there is nothing to report.

In addition: they want to keep players happy - but they also don't want to appear as if they fold to discontent - so their silence is somewhat strategic.

I'm annoyed by the lack of response too (I keep checking the boards to see if there is one,) but this is a really short time frame, and I'd have been surprised if they got back to us this quickly.  I'd like for them to get back to us this quickly, but I wouldn't expect it.

I really don't think they expected to get that negative a response, which is a bit surprising in and of itself - I think the mistake is that they think of shards as an in-game commodity as opposed to a partial cover, as I stated either here or in the other thread.

Yeah, it’s not like we can expect them to get up at one in the morning and post an update to retroactive rewards...

Anon

And the devs were never heard from again.

Captain_Carlman

Anon said:

And the devs were never heard from again.

Don't worry, I'm sure we'll get an update about the wonderful new sales coming up or the fantastic new character being released soon!

shadow2999

Ice and Dev team, there was a request YOU made to the community for it not to flood the Customer Service with tickets.  The Community has requested at least some form of update/insight so we dont all feel like we're out in the cold with no clue that this is even being taken seriously. At some pt patience on both sides will dry up.  Is it really that much to ask if you could provide some kind of update, that contains some form of information that the community can use to guage how things are going?  Radio silence is not helping anyone.  Respect has to be a two way street.

HisReptilianMajesty

shadow2999 said:

Ice and Dev team, there was a request YOU made to the community for it not to flood the Customer Service with tickets.  The Community has requested at least some form of update/insight so we dont all feel like we're out in the cold with no clue that this is even being taken seriously. At some pt patience on both sides will dry up.  Is it really that much to ask if you could provide some kind of update, that contains some form of information that the community can use to guage how things are going?  Radio silence is not helping anyone.  Respect has to be a two way street.

My login total is up to 1800 days, and that excludes a few month break when I was in a major car wreck. I cracked open a mini-hoard on the Thor/BRB/Hela store this morning and thought maybe getting some 5-Stars would make me less disappointed in the game and follow-up. I got an average number of 5 star covers and some shards. There wasn't any rush or excitement. Bonus Heroes at least gave me the chance of feeling like I got something extra and substantial on any given pull.

That in combination with the disappointment of the botched rewards rework has left me pretty much done with the game if we don't hear anything substantial by Friday afternoon.

Things have felt slow and measured since the shift to shards, and while that has pros and it has cons, it doesn't work well without anything else to make the game exciting. That's probably part of the reason the botched rewards rework stings for so many people. The first real substantial boon or excitement in a while, and instead it's possibly the most disappointing event in the history of the game.

No one wants to get Thanksgiving dinner one spoonful at a time over the course of the year. That's what shards are rapidly starting to feel like.

IIAlonditeII

"Guys, stop sending tickets. Just talk to us here."
"Ok, well...lets talk here then."
"..."
"Yes, let's talk here."
"..."

DAZ0273

Bryan Lambert said:

GrimSkald said:

gascangascan said:

Mikbro81 said:

Still no response?  Ok....

You also need to factor in - how much of their time is devoted to discussing this. Do they have a meeting with key decision-makers later today? This week? If they are still deciding what to do - and they have no deadline - then there is nothing to report.

In addition: they want to keep players happy - but they also don't want to appear as if they fold to discontent - so their silence is somewhat strategic.

I'm annoyed by the lack of response too (I keep checking the boards to see if there is one,) but this is a really short time frame, and I'd have been surprised if they got back to us this quickly.  I'd like for them to get back to us this quickly, but I wouldn't expect it.

I really don't think they expected to get that negative a response, which is a bit surprising in and of itself - I think the mistake is that they think of shards as an in-game commodity as opposed to a partial cover, as I stated either here or in the other thread.

Yeah, it’s not like we can expect them to get up at one in the morning and post an update to retroactive rewards...

I really do feel this needs addressing but I also feel it won't be. Because of that, it is hard not to draw the worst conclusions. I hope I am proven wrong.

This was a massive update, it should have had an in office hours release to the Forums with a community manager in hand to deal with enquiries. It would have been like Marvel calling a press conference at 1am to say Marvel Phase 4 is cancelled and then shrugging their shoulders at the disbelieving of the timing of the announcement let alone the impact to fans.

Twysta

What I understand here is that someone somewhere in the development of this decided they were going to hold back feeders until the shard system so they could introduce a load at once and on purposefully bend round the previous rule of giving out a cover from the reward system and replace them with shards.  Thus being able to scrooge the playerbase off from "too many covers" which they were quoted as saying.
A ridiculous notion with no consideration for the morale of the current playerbase which has already been disgruntled many times previously due to ridiculously low compensation for various other misdemeanors.

And what's worse is they feel the best way to introduce a new feature; while taking away a very much liked one is to try and give as little out as possible unless you're paying for them.  
Time and time again the frustrating decisions of the design choices are very suggestive to me that they have no consideration of loyalty for the people who actively play, enjoy and support their game. But they have no notion of how maintaining a happy playerbase increases a games lifespan, longevity and overall market value.
It's disappointing to see in a game which has so much potential but is constantly wrangled with ridiculous changes and that most people have to call a "guilty pleasure", instead of just "a pleasure". 

Normally a little goodwill goes a long way, but even if they did change how the rewards were given out I'd still be unconvinced going into the future that they would ever be looking to both simultaneously appease the playerbase and keep the integrity of the game moving forward. 

That said for the meantime I'll keep playing but if the game suddenly decides it's shutting down I don't think I'd be that disappointed... which is the completely opposite of how I used to feel about it a couple of years back. 
I feel if they keep making strange stingy, tight-fisted decisions like this I won't be alone in feeling like this, and for a match 3 marvel game that's been going for as long as it has that's a shame. 

DarthDeVo

DAZ0273 said:

I would also like some clarification moving forward. For example - what happens when Beta Ray Bill gets a feeder?  Is it going to be the exact same chaos as this where if an existing 4* is chosen a whole bunch of players might miss out on retroactive rewards?

bluewolf said:

CAttitude said:

Practically asking, how far should we promote a new, non-feeder 4 in this shard hellscape?  279?  297?  I am worried about CapWorthy in this upcoming Civil War event.

This probably needs to be a separate thread but yes, the underlying message for players who care more about eventual 5's than using a high level 4 is to stop at 299.

It's just amazing that they are telling us that it hurts us to level people too much.

It is a pretty crazy situation. Can they even really risk making any of the old 4* feeders ongoing without getting absolutely murdered? Or does it mean they would need to immediately announce who the feeder is going to be for every new 5*?

Hey Devs - who is going to be feeding Beta Ray Bill please?

I just got Brock Venom to 320 today. To me, he seems the most likely candidate to eventually feed 5* Carnage, since the 4* Carnage already feeds 5* Doc Ock.

If so, probably screwed myself out of 500 shards. Well, 400, since I'll get 100 "bonus" shards for hitting 320. 😐

Captain_Carlman

With all this silence from the devs, I figure I will give it probably through the weekend to see if anything is either fixed or some kind of communication regarding this whole issue here on these forums.  If there's no word, then I'm out.  I am done with being disrespected by this company and history has taught me no follow-up from these guys means nothing is going to change and they really don't care.  Let us whine long enough and eventually status quo will restored again, right?  No, sorry guys.  Not this time.

Also, if I see a new post on this forum about a new character, a costume bundle, or anything of the ilk, before ANY of this is officially addressed, it just reinforces my point and the point of everyone else in this thread and I will be done right then and there.

pheregas

Captain_Carlman said:

With all this silence from the devs, I figure I will give it probably through the weekend to see if anything is either fixed or some kind of communication regarding this whole issue here on these forums.  If there's no word, then I'm out.  I am done with being disrespected by this company and history has taught me no follow-up from these guys means nothing is going to change and they really don't care.  Let us whine long enough and eventually status quo will restored again, right?  No, sorry guys.  Not this time.

Also, if I see a new post on this forum about a new character, a costume bundle, or anything of the ilk, before ANY of this is officially addressed, it just reinforces my point and the point of everyone else in this thread and I will be done right then and there.

Does the weekly weekend sale count, cuz that’s happening tomorrow regardless.

HoundofShadow

Let's give them some time to discuss this. I don't think they've been spending the entire day of their work day for the past two or three days discussing this. Besides, how many times does history, communication-wise, need to repeat itself?

Scenario 1:
Dev: posted something incomplete and informed the players they will update again. No specific timeframe could be given.
Players: discussed what the devs posted and thought of different ways that things could happen and became hopeful or jump to conclusion. 
Dev: silence for days or weeks
Player: gets impatient and pushes for update 
Dev: posted an update and full info is out
Players: unhappy with what the devs posted because it wasn't what they expected (majority of the time)

Scenario 2:
Dev: (silence)
Players: unhappy with silence and wants
some updates

From here, it's either we jump to Scenario 1 or the following happens:

Dev: silence again
Player: unhappiness increases due to silence or lack of update 
Dev: post full update.
Player: dicuss about the post and give feedbacks

Now that you know what's very likely going to happen in the future, make a choice. Do we want to go down Scenario 1 or Scenario 2?

BrutusTheCat

With this change D3 has already lost the chance to come across as a generous dev which would have built some goodwill with their player base. 

Now even of they give the rewards they will still have unhappy players because we had to fight for it. 

I don't see any change coming. 

Isay_Isay

First new event after this change is “Naughty or Nice”

oh the irony

/chef kiss

gascangascan

I drew this up to explain why we have not heard from them. They just need to have a meeting. I hope this helps.

Tucsonjon

PinkoMcFlyToo said:

Anon said:

Is this the biggest backlash in the games history?

There's been some big ones, this is definitely the most justified of the backlashes.Fa

Hey Pinko!  didn't notice it was you Fallout 76 backlash seemed considerably worse.  In game players were making effigy of the devs and burning them.  

jamesh

Daredevil217 said:

HoundofShadow said:

That post by Brigby actually works against the players because the definition of shard has been stated. If this case were to be presented to the jury, it's highly likely that the jury will award the win to the dev.

1. Players can apply comic covers to their characters to increase or unlock their power levels.

2. Shard is a system or feature where it allows players to be able to work towards the heroes they have favorited, but also see exactly how far they are away from getting that next cover.

Shard is similar to points earned when consumers use credit cards. When the consumers reach a certain milestone, like 8000 reward points, they can use it to redeem things like shopping vouchers. However, they can't go around saying that shopping vouchers are 8000 rewards points.

In this case, the players can redeem a selected 5* cover with 500 character-specific shards.

However, based on some of the cases that I came across, the devs loses if they decided to go down this route of technicality.

My guess would be elder players will get an additional 1000 5* shards, if they decided to choose the middle ground. (6 covers / 2 = 3 covers).

4* and below players will get their Mighty Tokens and their secondary 4* shards.

I guess they could separate the rewards based on shield rank.

If shards don’t equate to covers then where are my Parker shards for Vulture being level 320? I’m currently chasing him so I’d love to know where my shards went! I definitely didn’t receive them even though they are checked off as received. 

Oh right... I’ve been told I don’t get those because I got the equivalent covers already! Equivalent being the key word. Can’t have it both ways. 

Don't bother engaging with him: he's arguing in bad faith. None of the individual arguments he makes actually matter: if you poke a hole in them he'll just move on to the next one rather than reassess his point of view.

HoundofShadow

Let's clear things up. A forum is a place for people to share their opinions. It's not a place to to determine whose opinion is right or wrong. Opinions are subjectives. It represents how someone views situations. 

I'm aware that my opinions are unpopular because most of the time, I take into accounts the viewpoints of other parties who are involved in the decision making process. I'm also aware that there are some posters hot on my tail and accuses me of "regularly engaging in flame-baiting". 

Besides, it's not that I don't want to continue "debating", but when someone else pops up and label my opinions as trolling, then I don't see the point of continuing the conversation. 

Anyway, most of the players got what they want in this saga and there's a happy closure, more or less.

CrazedPossum

gascangascan said:

I drew this up to explain why we have not heard from them. They just need to have a meeting. I hope this helps.

Irnman says "You can't have these rewards.  I don't think you irned them."

jamesh

HoundofShadow said:

Let's clear things up. A forum is a place for people to share their opinions. It's not a place to to determine whose opinion is right or wrong. Opinions are subjectives. It represents how someone views situations. 

I'm aware that my opinions are unpopular because most of the time, I take into accounts the viewpoints of other parties who are involved in the decision making process. I'm also aware that there are some posters hot on my tail and accuses me of "regularly engaging in flame-baiting". 

Besides, it's not that I don't want to continue "debating", but when someone else pops up and label my opinions as trolling, then I don't see the point of continuing the conversation. 

Anyway, most of the players got what they want in this saga and there's a happy closure, more or less.

The problem is that most of your arguments go something like:

You: Because A is true, I believe X is true
Others: A is not true
You: Because B is true, I believe X is true
Others: B is not true
You: Because C is true, I believe X is true
...

It gives the appearance that you've started with a conclusion and are searching for premises. And that you don't actually care whether those premises hold up to scrutiny: they only matter for exactly as long as they might support the conclusion.

So it's not worth expending any effort analysing any premise you put forward: disproving it won't change your mind, because it isn't actually the reason you've come to your conclusion. That's what I mean by arguing in bad faith.