On Retroactive Rewards

MegaBee

axmoss said:

can i get my mighty tokens for the max champed 3-stars on my roster?

DarthDeVo

MegaBee said:

axmoss said:

can i get my mighty tokens for the max champed 3-stars on my roster?

"MEAT! I'll get you a nice box of Christmas meat."

Krek

MoosePrime said:

Krek said:

I'll give you 3 immediate examples and this not based on math but purely goal oriented as I have had to be to keep playing after getting kicked in the teeth again and again with these updates.

1. My gamora is 297 I was looking forward to getting her to 300 and a thanos cover. with new rewards: 400 shards and that's counting 2 levels of rewards.

2. my wolverine is 313 and I was looking forward to finishing the covers on OML when 320. now: a few shards and even if it's enough for a cover it's over many levels and I lose covers overall on EVERY 4*

3. my 311 medusa: same as wolverine: I can forget to finish black bolt by 320 and losing covers over all.

4. antman 299: forget about wasp cover and losing covers the list goes on.

Each of these examples were feeders before, you should have received the shards from the earlier levels, so that when you get to level 300 or 320, it will total a complete cover.

except I didn't.

spidyjedi84

DarthDeVo said:

MegaBee said:

axmoss said:

can i get my mighty tokens for the max champed 3-stars on my roster?

"MEAT! I'll get you a nice box of Christmas meat."

You like your chunks of Spider-Ham already sliced in shards, right?

MoosePrime

Krek said:

MoosePrime said:

Krek said:

I'll give you 3 immediate examples and this not based on math but purely goal oriented as I have had to be to keep playing after getting kicked in the teeth again and again with these updates.

1. My gamora is 297 I was looking forward to getting her to 300 and a thanos cover. with new rewards: 400 shards and that's counting 2 levels of rewards.

2. my wolverine is 313 and I was looking forward to finishing the covers on OML when 320. now: a few shards and even if it's enough for a cover it's over many levels and I lose covers overall on EVERY 4*

3. my 311 medusa: same as wolverine: I can forget to finish black bolt by 320 and losing covers over all.

4. antman 299: forget about wasp cover and losing covers the list goes on.

Each of these examples were feeders before, you should have received the shards from the earlier levels, so that when you get to level 300 or 320, it will total a complete cover.

except I didn't.

1. Your Thanos should have 100 shards, so that the rewards at 298 (150 shards) and 300 (250 shards) get you to 500 shards, the equivalent of a full cover.

2., 3. You wouldn't have gotten any Black Bolt nor OML shards, since you already got the covers when they got to 300, and they haven't passed the new shards levels (315, 318) on their way to 320.

4. Wasp should have 250 shards, so that when Ant-Man gets to level 300 you will get another 250 shards, the equivalent of a full cover.

I have some 4* characters in this range and their 5* rewards have the correct numbers of shards.

Your examples do not demonstrate a problem with this update.

gascangascan

I've been playing this game my whole life. 

Before MPQ, it was Bejeweled.

Before that - I fed painted rocks down 8 wooden slides while grandpa made matches. If the board got stuck, grandpa beat me with the coat hanger.

I started playing MPQ because of the community and one 3* character.

That 3* is now maxed, and she has a bunch of 4* & 5* friends.

Still, I got nothing yesterday: no shards, no announcement, nothing.

I feel like I got rocks for my holiday present (which used to happen - I had to paint them).

To D3: Please make the following holiday costume - I'll give you like $40 - and all is forgiven.

liminal_lad

I didn't realize how bad this was until I saw the breakdowns here. I had assumed I had miscalculated the amount of shards I should have received and everything was copacetic. This is bad.

Treras

Yeah, this year MPQ Santa gave us coal instead of presents. They can still make it worse they just need to get rid of saved covers...

Captain_Carlman

As a long time player (Day 2064) but still 3*-4* transitioning player, I thought the retroactive reward system announced would finally help me get the leg-up I needed to help cover some of my retro 4*s, since all of my 3*s are rostered and closing in on being max champed.  Some retro 4* covers would have been great, but Mighty Tokens wouldn't be bad overall either.  Instead, I log in and get a couple hundred shards for 4* Carnage and Kate Bishop with a handful of random 3* shards.  

This game is just starting to feel like a slog to get through and it's getting to the point where I'm starting to dread playing because nothing feels like it going anywhere and I just keep spinning my wheels.  I can't afford to "super whale" my way through roster progression, but I was willing to spend what I could from time to time.  With all the constant nerfing to rewards, I think it will probably be time to quit soon.  It's been a fun five years, but there's no point in sticking around to play the same PVE stories over and over with not much to show for it, even being penalized for doing so to build my roster.

BlatantFix

2*s were handled ok for the most part. I still think it was cheap to not award the mighty tokens retroactively for level 143, but whatever, the shards were at least given retroactively correctly.

3*s - For those you changed the feeder for I get not handing out new shards if the cover was already given, after all, covers were already received there, even if it's a bit annoying it was for a different character (incidentally I'd love to hear why Daredevil and Elektra both still only feed 4* Elektra when every other instance of this got changed).

But for secondary feeders I don't understand the logic of not handing out the shards, as you've created the scenario where I would have been better off not leveling anyone for two weeks prior to this change. My level 201 Iron Man for example, has now missed 120 secondary shards for having been leveled, 55 of which I would have absolutely got as I've added at least a couple of levels to him within that time frame, only to now find myself too high level to earn a reward. In what world does that make sense?

Even worse for 4* characters, while it doesn't personally affect me, anyone just over level 300, 320, 340 etc. has been massively hit by this, as they are literally receiving less rewards than they would a few levels lower as per the examples in this thread. Offer any player the chance to take that legendary token back for the better rewards and I'm sure they'd take it, but they can't.

Someone in my alliance just unloaded a 2 year haul of command points thinking it would be beneficial. Now not only was it not beneficial, it was plain detrimental. They would have been unequivocally better off for having done so a few days later. Again, why?

To top it all off the update was made at short notice, with vague communication that included this statement:
"At the same time, for 4-Star characters that are receiving all-new rewards, we want to ensure that players receive those rewards for the level they have reached."
This was simply not true, they did not receive those rewards, they received a small fraction inconsistently applied. The fact you didn't even mention 3* secondary feeder shards not being given suggests you knew it would be unpopular. Then a member of your team openly insults players reactions on discord, which you can claim isn't official, but as far as I can tell most of my alliance gets news on there way before I do reading here.

This entire thing was a mess, and it just didn't need to be. What's worse, the way it was rolled out suggested you knew it wasn't really beneficial to anyone, but just thought no-one would kick up too much of a fuss. And are only now reacting because you misjudged that.

Krek

MoosePrime said:

Krek said:

MoosePrime said:

Krek said:

I'll give you 3 immediate examples and this not based on math but purely goal oriented as I have had to be to keep playing after getting kicked in the teeth again and again with these updates.

1. My gamora is 297 I was looking forward to getting her to 300 and a thanos cover. with new rewards: 400 shards and that's counting 2 levels of rewards.

2. my wolverine is 313 and I was looking forward to finishing the covers on OML when 320. now: a few shards and even if it's enough for a cover it's over many levels and I lose covers overall on EVERY 4*

3. my 311 medusa: same as wolverine: I can forget to finish black bolt by 320 and losing covers over all.

4. antman 299: forget about wasp cover and losing covers the list goes on.

Each of these examples were feeders before, you should have received the shards from the earlier levels, so that when you get to level 300 or 320, it will total a complete cover.

except I didn't.

1. Your Thanos should have 100 shards, so that the rewards at 298 (150 shards) and 300 (250 shards) get you to 500 shards, the equivalent of a full cover.

2., 3. You wouldn't have gotten any Black Bolt nor OML shards, since you already got the covers when they got to 300, and they haven't passed the new shards levels (315, 318) on their way to 320.

4. Wasp should have 250 shards, so that when Ant-Man gets to level 300 you will get another 250 shards, the equivalent of a full cover.

I have some 4* characters in this range and their 5* rewards have the correct numbers of shards.

Your examples do not demonstrate a problem with this update.

even if that true which I don't think it is, It's still 3+ rewards to reach the same as 1 before. that's not right. losing out on rewards regardless. and those rewards is lt tokens which usually translates to 4* covers at least, a 5* cover at best.

Mikbro81

I call shenanigans.

Im not quite sure where to begin. Im on day 803 scl 142. I really enjoy mpq. I really enjoy the online community that exists because of mpq. I spend $ on mpq because of all the hours of enjoyment I get from mpq. I could probably go on and on about it lol. 

Do you think I am going to stop playing because I've max champed my 3s? Or the 4s when that happens?  Or the 5s? No, I wouldn't. Just like the countless other people with duplicate characters and big rosters etc. What will make me stop? Probably nothing. Or so I thought. 

Yesterday, something changed for me.  I started to see this relationship for what it is. Abusive. I thought we had an agreement where you provided a service, and I, the customer,  paid for that service. Im sorry that you didn't see things the way I did

Gambit_Ace2000

Daily rank player scl 8/9
PvP 575/900+
1668 days played
266 roster slots
All characters rostered
2*/3* farms for rewards
Idk if you would call me a vet or not but I have damn sure played and put my time in as well as spent money..VIP, cover bundles etc.
I was sceptical about this new shard system upon announcement, but willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. When I heard about this new update and read the posts, I was like all right finally gonna get to a level of progression that has been eluding me even though I do play as much as I do....Well my level of disappointment couldn't be any higher. You do not tell your customer base that they are going to receive something and not make yourself clear about your actions, that's just not good business. You do not say that you will be receiving rewards, but it will be handled differently without the explanation of just how different it is going to be from previous expectations. Everything I have read and and the conversations I have had with alliance mates/friends on discord, Line and Facebook, all are fairly well disgusted with the way this was handled. It seems like a slap in the face to vets and new players alike and a step backwards overall. You know I have loved this game since the day I downloaded it and enjoyed all the hours I have played even though the repitition in PvE is annoying at times, it's still fun to me. That being said unless something is done with this I'm seriously thinking about hanging my coat on the mantle. Players should be rewarded for the time and effort they put into something like this not punished. Just my 2 cents thanks folks.

Anon

Is this the biggest backlash in the games history?

ShortStuff

Just one example:
Under the old system, my Rescue would have been champed.
Instead, I have a 10 cover Rescue with 300 shards.
And that is it.  Rescue will never be champed.  It will spend the rest of its life sitting there with 10 covers and 300 useless, stupid, idiotic, wasteful shards.

PinkoMcFlyToo

Anon said:

Is this the biggest backlash in the games history?

There's been some big ones, this is definitely the most justified of the backlashes.

grumbLEGO

From what I can tell from some of these truly impressive posts and my own experience (2019 play days, shield level 155) it all boils down to something very simple. 

The communication seemed to indicate that the change in rewards would be treated like previous feeders. It was not. They could have gone so far as to change the reward and give nothing retroactively, at least that didn’t happen, but that’s small comfort because the retroactive rewards are a. Inconsistent with previous retroactive rewards and b. Just don’t make a whole lot of sense. 

Also. Is there any real reason why we need to split up shard rewards in champ levels and not just award 500 at one level and give other rewards at the other levels? You got to 500 shards (or the equivalent for lower cover tiers) at the same place you’d get a cover before anyway, why split it up?

Mikbro81

grumbLEGO said:

From what I can tell from some of these truly impressive posts and my own experience (2019 play days, shield level 155) it all boils down to something very simple. 
The communication seemed to indicate that the change in rewards would be treated like previous feeders. It was not. They could have gone so far as to change the reward and give nothing retroactively, at least that didn’t happen, but that’s small comfort because the retroactive rewards are a. Inconsistent with previous retroactive rewards and b. Just don’t make a whole lot of sense. 

Also. Is there any real reason why we need to split up shard rewards in champ levels and not just award 500 at one level and give other rewards at the other levels? You got to 500 shards (or the equivalent for lower cover tiers) at the same place you’d get a cover before anyway, why split it up?

Because splitting it up was the best way to take resources away. They think there are too many hero points and cp in the game. If you want more,  you should buy more

Blergh

Been a while since I posted, but thought I'd add my two cents to the thread. 

I play a lot of games. Kind of my job, work for Future across a lot of their properties like PC Gamer, Kotaku, Games Radar and a few other gaming properties. And in all honesty, I think this outcry about champion rewards is a symptom of much bigger problems in the design of the game. 

I think you guys, like a lot of mobile developers, over-rely on metrics gathered from player behaviour and focus on the numbers too much. I think this kind of makes you forget the most crucial element to any game - the player's emotional invest - or the fun factor. You're entertainment and no one likes living in austerity. You need to make the player feel rewarded for playing, not punished or deprived. It's kind of why achievements/trophies both in-game and on profiles were a big hit. They feel like they've earned something. Make your players feel rewarded. Like they are building something. Getting better - going somewhere. 

The meaningful rewards high end are so restricted, I don't feel like I'm being rewarding in any meaningful way. 

I've seen games with the awesome system, imaginative gameplay fail as they didn't have this, while very badly implemented games thrive as they do. In the case of this game, I think a lot that legwork has already been done by the franchise - most people here play other Marvel games - they are emotionally invested in the characters and property already. But, the game itself has never really got this idea or got how rewarding the player generously will get them to invest more, due to a feeling of them getting more out of it.

When you compared it to other games, it feels very much like MPQ is going through a recession. It's frustrating. And the more you progress in the game the less rewarding the experience becomes - increasingly see the same enemies, competing for rewards gets harder, the majority of your roster is locked out, and progress halts. So, when you actively take away the few rewards you do give out that help that progression, you get a big backlash. 

You give them the sense, yes, I am finally gonna get somewhere this character, and you take it away - impeding them.

I'll unpack why I personally feel the game is unrewarding, as a lot of it is connected, but expressed in different ways. 

One of the biggest unrewarding experiences in the game is the way PVE is organised. The way brackets work and the points are regained force you to play to a schedule and strict pattern if you want to earn the top rewards. If a player comes home late from work and has to ask themself whether they have time to make a cup of tea and some toast before they grind, does that sound like a rewarding or unrewarding experience? Or if they have to apologise to the alliance they've let down for not making the grind due to looking after their ill child, does that sound rewarding? 

So, even before you've begun to play you are creating an atmosphere where the player feels put out by the game. And to a lesser extent, shields in PVP will have the same time restrictions due to length and cool down. So, both aspects of the game need you to have a clear and organised schedule that inhibits the feeling of reward or enjoyment. And wins is kind of too long for 5*s, specially with the colossal healing time.

The feeling of having to sacrifice something negates some of the achievements/rewards they get from finishing in a good position. The resentment may be under the surface but it's there. And the further you progress up the star tier, the more you need to play optimally to progress. As what use is a three cover? Or even a four? or Three elites or even a hero? Not much.

I have 159 shards towards a five cover - so you know, if I keep playing for the next two months I might get a single five cover, which is pretty useless. In 6 months I might get a working five that makes competing in events easier. Slow. So slow. Sure, I could buy it, but why would I? It's hardly a great investment when compared to other games, more expensive for a character in a game that offers me very little return. In other games, I'd most probably be near to having maxed top tier characters within a few months with spending less money- not a single cover. So, I'll invest more in them - as my return is greater. And they are more fun as I am getting rewarded more often.

And that doesn't mean they are giving me more stuff - just making me feel that fun factor or sense of achievement. That I am getting somewhere and getting better. Extra damage across all characters, extra resource collection for levelling up, extra slots to hold stuff, - you know stuff coded in the game that isn't a resource or related to characters. Just unlocked through effort and time. So even though their progress in characters is slow, they are given the illusion of progressing through secondary means - if that makes sense?

And there are loads of way you could create this - customizable alliances that level up - can have an x-mansion, stark tower, and stuff. Alliance ranks unlock new features - some kind of resource bonus for levelling up alliances - extra iso - faster heal time. You know there is a lot you could do with that. And you most probably collect a lot of data on damage, amount of enemies down matches won, quickest four clears - just collating at and making it a non-reward best alliance list could be fun to some people - increase competition in a different way. Even achievements locked to characters for bragging rights would be kind of fun. There are numerous ways that you could increase the personal reward, without increasing the actual rewards.

Progress seems to halt dramatically too. I recently came back to the game after a little break, and I don't hoard. The CP you removed from champion rewards may have been lower than elsewhere in the game, but it regularly tipped me over the amount I needed to draw a from a 5* store. So, I am already frustrated at the pace of progression and you have hampered the pace again. And your metrics might not show this lack of progression as it expresses it in numbers, but it is going to slow my pull rate down. And since being back I have managed to get 7 Ice-man about 6 professor x and 6 Carnage covers and loads of fours whose release I missed. Numbers alone would say I am progressing - my roster is being built up. But is it meaningful and rewarding to me as a player? 

The answer is no. A resounding no. Having champed 5*s means the majority of 4*s are useless. They are just a way to access rewards - like CP and LTs or covers. That is the only use I have for them. And you have just reduced their value. There is no excitement or fun there because I am locked out of the tier. There is value but is hardly rewarding. All a new four-star is to me, the majority of the time, is a slow backing invest unlock the rewards I want.

It isn't really exciting or fun as I'll never use it beyond a battery for rewards. The same goes for the under-levelled 5*'s I've got. With champed fives, I can't really use them anyway - as they'll be out levelled and classed by MMR or levels. So even though it looks like progress, it doesn't feel like it. At all. It's more frustrating and slow as the majority of the time I am getting nowhere. And not even fast. So, metrics can lie.

Luckily, I have largely given up on progressing and just play it to pass the time. Thinking over a feature, or whether a piece of content I am preparing for the next day has the right tone or information for the brand audience - mindless match while I chew over it. But that means I also give the game almost (not totally) zero invest money-wise. You know, no emotional investment. I'm getting nothing from the game. Getting a better return else-where. It's more an effort thing usually - drop tenner or go through the effort. Prrft. I'm pretty lazy.

If you look at your player base's comments on this forum, you'll see how frustrated they feel about the progress. It presents in a number of ways, people talking about the dilution of characters, feeling frustrated hoarding for the next good five and wanting to pull but not wanting to be punished for it, or their struggling to tread water by getting all 4*s to 209. None of that talks about progression - in fact, two of the main roster methods are based on halting progression - hoarding and stopping at 450 or building fours to  209 and stopping. Does that seem like a fun way to play? Does it seem rewarding? Does it seem like a good basis for a game with RPG style levelling system?

I mean, the reward structure has largely remained the same for a few years. Might insert new currencies, but you never increase them - while increasing the difficulty to build a meaningful roster. Reducing rewards is like reducing the living wage while increasing inflation. It makes it less fun and gives the player base a great sense of austerity. You have to increase the reward element somehow. At least give the illusion of progress and not make people feel like they're just keeping their head above water. 

There is more to it than this, but I've waffled on for too long.

So people aren't really moaning for free stuff. They're moaning as they don't have the resources to grow. They are moaning as they feel unrewarded as if they're not really achieving anything. They feel stagnant. Frustrated. Stuck. And you don't have to fix that by giving out more rewards - or increasing the rewards in progression. Or even providing more ways to earn a reward - although that would help. You just have to make their efforts or investments feel like they are getting rewarded for it. 

You need to find a way to inject the fun back in for higher rosters, give them that feeling that you're achieving something, not just wasting time or struggling for a 4* cover that won't really give them anything in return, your building something, your progressing - not hitting a dead wall and being punished. Once you looked at metrics, and think about a change - ask if it is rewarding to the player base as a whole - if it will make them go wow and emotionally invest. If not, then it's most probably a bad idea. Think about the whole entertainment aspect. 

So the biggest problem for me is that the reward system doesn't offer me any rewards in any meaningful way. Others will disagree. But I think that's what you really need to fix to stop massive backlashes. 

jtsings

   Day 975 for me.  Usually top 5/10 in PVE SCL 8 and PVP top 25/50.  I've bought just a few cover packages but I've consistently paid the $2 each month, which in my opinion is well worth the cost for the shield intercepts you get in return.  I've tried to make some possible justifications, in previous posts, for the reasoning behind the BH to shard change and the change in champ rewards.  Well... in this one I'm really stumped, the only possible explanation I can come up with (because they won't come on and tell us what their intention/reasoning was) they were trying to get away with giving us as little as possible.  The emotion I felt after receiving my rewards for my several level 300+ 4*s was both severely underwhelming and very discouraging.

  Here's my question, which if it already has been brought up I apologize.  There was already a significant population of the people that were very upset by both the shard changeover and the change in champ rewards and then they had no foresight to see that this was going to be a big problem.  The first two I could being somewhat helpful for newer players but the latter really didn't benefit imo, properly, anyone.  D3 I've got an expression for you if/when you decide to rearrange the retroactive rewards: "one, two, three strikes you're out"; which it appears many have already communicated to you already.

   I do concur heavily with everyone before who has mentioned communication, or lack thereof, as the biggest problem in this and a lot of other areas of this forum.  Don't get me wrong I do like reading other people's opinions about the game but I also like to know ahead of time what's going on in the game.  I'm not sure if the a warning ahead of time that the retroactive rewards  were going to be significantly scaled back would have helped to "soften the blow" of the fallout of disappointment, but at least many people wouldn't have spent money or in game resources to do what any smart person would have done before the expected rewards were significantly reduced.