On Retroactive Rewards

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Comments

  • mags1587mags1587 Posts: 1,020 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thank you for the update and looking at the reward structure.  

    From the initial post, I wasn't expecting retroactive rewards to be as generous as they have been in the past, but I did get the impression that we'd get more than we got.  My biggest disappointment and confusion came from the fact that my maxed 2*s, 3*s, and 4*s got no retroactive rewards at all.  I was expecting at least a token from the 2*s and some shards (particularly for new feeders) from the 3*s.  Not all of the shards available, but some, at least.   

    Another problem was the lack of clarity on what rewards I should have gotten.  When I initially got the rewards, my first impression was that I was missing a lot of 3* and 4* rewards.  It took me most of an hour to figure out that I probably wasn't missing anything but I still wasn't certain I was interpreting the post correctly.  I wish the post on exactly how you were giving out retroactive rewards had been posted a day or two before the rewards were given out.  That would have given us time to figure out what we would be getting based on our rosters and would have avoided a slew of "I think I'm missing rewards" tickets to CS.  

    Like I said before, my biggest disappointment is that my maxed champed characters didn't get anything, even for completely new feeders.  If nothing else I hope you reconsider this aspect of the retroactive rewards.  
  • Cheetah1982Cheetah1982 Posts: 7 Just Dropped In
    Too many excellent points to repeat. I just wanted to add that the shards are a resource and having them not collect in a pool like ISO, CP, and HP, is wrong. Shards should collect in a pool (or pools for each tier) to be used as the player wants. What limited shards I was awarded during retroactive rewards (all I got was shards) equal a fraction of a cover of characters In not ever going to favorite. If I could allocate those shards how I want it reduces (or eliminates) overflow shards for a character and empowers me as an individual player.
  • optimus2861optimus2861 Posts: 1,232 Chairperson of the Boards
    My personal anecdote to add to the pile. I didn't notice it yesterday. 

    My 5* Storm sits at 5/5/1, with 4 saved covers starting the day yesterday. So the feeders updated and I got yet another black cover. Growl, grumble, save. Ok fine.

    Only today I realize that my 4* Thor is at exactly level 300. Meaning I got 100 shards for Storm, instead of the 500 I could potentially have received had she been just 7 levels lower yesterday morning. I could've had a 5/5/2 and potentially champed her. 

    Do you know when I might cycle 4* Thor? 2022, 2023? I'm not a heavy spender nor do I bother chasing placement 99% of the time. Why did I just get effectively punished for having earned Thor levels months ago? 
  • Roland113Roland113 Posts: 292 Mover and Shaker
    To the Developers,

    I recognize that this is feedback that has been said by a lot of people, but I feel that understanding the scope of the player base that has felt lied to and has significant ill will towards the information leading up and implementation of this system needs to be accounted for.

    2.  The understanding of the word retroactive isn't that hard and yet, you purposely misled the community by choosing to parse things out in a very ambiguous manner.  You took a cool idea and raise expectations, and then disregarded common sense in the implementation.  

    3.  What i read in the forum was the the 2 and 3 star rewards were supposed to be retroactive, yet NONE were given, esp true for all the new feeders.  This means your official communication was deceptive.



    I thought there were some good points here.  I don't have anything really to add just put me down for a 'vote' in the disappointed category.  It's kind of like smoking, you're kind of angry / outraged / disappointed when you learn they've put addicting chemicals in the cigarette as you open your next pack and light it up anyways.
  • KarassKarass Posts: 45 Just Dropped In
    To put it mildly, I feel very skeptical on the benefits of shards over BHs, and this update to feeders is underwhelming. I would have been very much rewarded in the old system a whopping ammount of 5* which, snap, turned into dust (Thanos much?) -- I mean, shards, which didnt compare to what I'd have gotten otherwise.

    It feels wrong to me, and I don't think I'm the only one here. Members in my alliance wont renew VIP and I feel like joining them altogether, as it's the only weight we seem to have on you.

    Until you make the necessary changes to the game, this is goodbye from my wallet.
  • WarbringaWarbringa Posts: 1,157 Chairperson of the Boards
    This is my take and as usual, I'm expecting to get flagged into smithereen, but I think this need to be said.

    On communication


    1) If there is any major subsequent update to a thread or if the post is long, the team might want to start a new thread. For example, "Shards Update Part 2". This might help to reach a wider audience and bring more attention to the update.

    2) I think the team might want to get a lawyer or logician to vet your update or post. Even though I've been here for only 2 years, but the reactions from here are really predictable.

    We have been through a number of mini-sagas where players in here nitpick the words being used by the team. If the team is not going to define those words, the players in here will define it for you and once they define it, you have to stick with their definitions. When that happens, whatever subsequent explanations by you will be dismissed as excuses. Please remember many players in here live in only a black and white world. 

    In the future, define words where you think players in here will use their own definitions. If necessary, use a Venn Diagram or Logic tree to make the idea clearer. The post won't look as sexy as in the past, but when you are posting in a forum filled with lawyers, they are simply not interested in sexy stuff.

    On Generosity and Goodwill
    I said this last year but I'll say this again: It doesn't pay to be generous. In a normal world, generosity or goodwill are appreciated and remembered. People won't expect you to extend goodwill forever or expect you to one-up your previous generosity, but this place does.

    Think about the reactions towards the rewards given in the new alliance event (I think it was Sinister 600) after Palaces of Power ended, or the subsequent reactions after a few feeders were announced. Think about what the reactions were when Customer Service decided to stop cover swapping. You took their cover swapping service away, even though it didn't belong to them in the first place.

    Let's say if the team decided to extend goodwill or generosity in the future again, please let them know that whatever generosity or goodwill extended is not a measuring yardstick for future cases. 

    Review-Bombing
    I'm against review bombing because it's not a true representation of the game as a whole but it's an emotional outburst towards game developers. The team is going to set a terrible precedent if the devs decided to give in fully to the players' demands. 

    Compensations
    Let's say the team decided to compensate the 5 extra covers for 370 4* characters, it does not mean that these players will start spending money again or they will amend their reviews. Generally, they have short term memory regarding all the good stuff that you have done for them, but when it comes to negative stuff, they will remember it for life. I can't believe there are players still sour about whatever happened between you and them in the past, dating back probably 3-5 years ago.

    Future Challenges
    We are not done yet with shards and Mighty Tokens rollout into other parts of the game. Since the team mentioned that rewards will be replaced when shards and Mighty Tokens are added into the game, I'm expecting players to stop spending money, quit the game or review bomb the game again when you roll out these changes. The players simply hate tradeoffs, unless it involves trading 1 HP or 1 iso-8 for 1 Mighty Token.

    Good luck, and I hope the game can make it to the 10th anniversary after this saga.
    So to summarize your advice to D3: They should stick their head in the sand and ignore everything?  

    I think that is a dangerous practice for a business in the extremely discretionary consumer sector to operate with.     
  • GrimSkaldGrimSkald Posts: 2,030 Chairperson of the Boards
    Karass said:
    To put it mildly, I feel very skeptical on the benefits of shards over BHs, and this update to feeders is underwhelming. I would have been very much rewarded in the old system a whopping ammount of 5* which, snap, turned into dust (Thanos much?) -- I mean, shards, which didnt compare to what I'd have gotten otherwise.

    It feels wrong to me, and I don't think I'm the only one here. Members in my alliance wont renew VIP and I feel like joining them altogether, as it's the only weight we seem to have on you.

    Until you make the necessary changes to the game, this is goodbye from my wallet.

    I think this is a core issue - for the most part the devs seem to be treating shards as a game commodity.  That is simply not the case.  Shards aren't a came commodity like HP, Iso, or CP, they're just fractional covers.  No more, no less.  They're very slightly more versatile than the actual covers, but it really doesn't make a difference unless you have very bad luck with colors on covers - the vast majority of the time X Shards simply is one cover.
  • DarthDeVoDarthDeVo Posts: 2,153 Chairperson of the Boards
    My personal anecdote to add to the pile. I didn't notice it yesterday. 

    My 5* Storm sits at 5/5/1, with 4 saved covers starting the day yesterday. So the feeders updated and I got yet another black cover. Growl, grumble, save. Ok fine.

    Only today I realize that my 4* Thor is at exactly level 300. Meaning I got 100 shards for Storm, instead of the 500 I could potentially have received had she been just 7 levels lower yesterday morning. I could've had a 5/5/2 and potentially champed her. 

    Do you know when I might cycle 4* Thor? 2022, 2023? I'm not a heavy spender nor do I bother chasing placement 99% of the time. Why did I just get effectively punished for having earned Thor levels months ago? 
    It's actually worse than you think. If you had just one less 4* Thor cover (not 7), you would have gotten 250 shards retroactively for 5torm, then another 250 when you hit Level 300. But one extra level means you won't finish covering 5torm until 4* Thor hits 340 instead of 320.

    I guess in some fairness, under the old system you would have needed to get 4* Thor to 360 to finish 5torm. So you've got that going for you, which is good. 🤷‍♂️
  • tiomonotiomono Posts: 1,599 Chairperson of the Boards
    Warbringa said:
    This is my take and as usual, I'm expecting to get flagged into smithereen, but I think this need to be said.

    On communication


    1) If there is any major subsequent update to a thread or if the post is long, the team might want to start a new thread. For example, "Shards Update Part 2". This might help to reach a wider audience and bring more attention to the update.

    2) I think the team might want to get a lawyer or logician to vet your update or post. Even though I've been here for only 2 years, but the reactions from here are really predictable.

    We have been through a number of mini-sagas where players in here nitpick the words being used by the team. If the team is not going to define those words, the players in here will define it for you and once they define it, you have to stick with their definitions. When that happens, whatever subsequent explanations by you will be dismissed as excuses. Please remember many players in here live in only a black and white world. 

    In the future, define words where you think players in here will use their own definitions. If necessary, use a Venn Diagram or Logic tree to make the idea clearer. The post won't look as sexy as in the past, but when you are posting in a forum filled with lawyers, they are simply not interested in sexy stuff.

    On Generosity and Goodwill
    I said this last year but I'll say this again: It doesn't pay to be generous. In a normal world, generosity or goodwill are appreciated and remembered. People won't expect you to extend goodwill forever or expect you to one-up your previous generosity, but this place does.

    Think about the reactions towards the rewards given in the new alliance event (I think it was Sinister 600) after Palaces of Power ended, or the subsequent reactions after a few feeders were announced. Think about what the reactions were when Customer Service decided to stop cover swapping. You took their cover swapping service away, even though it didn't belong to them in the first place.

    Let's say if the team decided to extend goodwill or generosity in the future again, please let them know that whatever generosity or goodwill extended is not a measuring yardstick for future cases. 

    Review-Bombing
    I'm against review bombing because it's not a true representation of the game as a whole but it's an emotional outburst towards game developers. The team is going to set a terrible precedent if the devs decided to give in fully to the players' demands. 

    Compensations
    Let's say the team decided to compensate the 5 extra covers for 370 4* characters, it does not mean that these players will start spending money again or they will amend their reviews. Generally, they have short term memory regarding all the good stuff that you have done for them, but when it comes to negative stuff, they will remember it for life. I can't believe there are players still sour about whatever happened between you and them in the past, dating back probably 3-5 years ago.

    Future Challenges
    We are not done yet with shards and Mighty Tokens rollout into other parts of the game. Since the team mentioned that rewards will be replaced when shards and Mighty Tokens are added into the game, I'm expecting players to stop spending money, quit the game or review bomb the game again when you roll out these changes. The players simply hate tradeoffs, unless it involves trading 1 HP or 1 iso-8 for 1 Mighty Token.

    Good luck, and I hope the game can make it to the 10th anniversary after this saga.
    So to summarize your advice to D3: They should stick their head in the sand and ignore everything?  

    I think that is a dangerous practice for a business in the extremely discretionary consumer sector to operate with.     
    I think you need to read what he wrote again. Your post is not giving any feedback to the devs and is nowhere near to what hound said.
  • ZeiramMRZeiramMR Posts: 1,313 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    I hadn't been on the forums for a couple days and didn't realize anything was up until I opened the game at lunch yesterday and had 66 items. Note that I've since gone and read the announcement thread and this one in their entirety, so while I missed the interim discussion/speculation from the weekend and Monday, I am describing my thoughts on retroactive rewards based on what we got.

    Like everyone else, for the 4-stars I would have expected retroactive rewards consistent with the previous 4-star champion updates (feeders) or something close to it. For me, the precedent set for retroactive rewards equalled the 10 5-star covers I did receive plus what would have been another 12 that were instead sets of 100 shards. (That is excluding the 100/150 shard bundles for being almost at a 250 shard level). Given the changes from colored covers to uncolored shards, I would have even been okay with 400 shards instead of the 100 we received for those level 300/320/etc. milestones; that would at least be a consistent ratio to the Bonus Heroes -> Shards change we saw on Legendary Tokens.

    I realize the loss of some of the resources that were swapped out of champion levels are going to hurt newer players, even though I am not going to touch on the changes to 2 and 3 star characters in this post. I also fully get that the people who had fully maxed 4* champions ended up with 33% of the covers for those level 370s as they would have before. While I am in between both of those on impact and only had a ~50% reduction in 5-star covers, I understand where those players are coming from and agree with their complaints.

    I've been a player for nearly the entire game life and maybe spent a couple hundred dollars on the game over those 6 years. But very little of that has been this calendar year. Heck, I went into the most recent Anniversary intending to buy an Asgard or Stark as a one-off, and instead spent that money on a different game due to how lackluster the anniversary was. I was tentatively on-board with shards (waiting to see how they were incorporated into standard Story/PVP events and especially DDQ) but it is choices like this from D3/Demi that have kept me away from even doing the monthly $2 for bonus rewards for the last half year.
  • KrekKrek Posts: 3 Just Dropped In
    edited December 2019
    OK I'll try to be as well reasoned as I can.

    I made an account just to say this:

    I am a veteran, checking my stats I'm on day 2039 and I've played daily barring holidays and such for over 5 years, 5,408 hours currently. I also have collector tendencies (very unfortunately in this case)

    to say that I've spent 1000 dollars on this game over the years is not hyperbole, more a conservative estimate.

    now I don't have a good roster for all that time spent, (another issue I'll not get into now). I have a few 300 4* most 4* champed and most in the 280-290 range. anyways I'll try to sum up my 5+ year experience with MPQ:

    "okay, I've finished puzzle quest 2, now what? hey, another puzzle game, this time with marvel characters and story from comics! cool!" (yes, I started mpq for the story, stupid me right?)

    okay now I've finished the prologue and stories can't wait for more story, what's this a new story event but timed? annoying but I'll try it" fast forward til years later when I've played them all countless times and it's all an absolute chore and even new stories don't have any story in them or the significance is lost in rewards as all that matter.

    "hey 4* characters cool! I can't wait to collect them all and get them til level 270!" (stupid me again right? with character dilution we are fast approaching more than 100 4* it never ends!)

    "what's this 5* oookay, but I've only gotten a few 270s. but man I love Old Man Logan, can't wait to have in my roster... (I got him maybe months later I can't remember I've never leveled him or any 5* until very very recently)

    "man I'm sick and tired of wasting covers... hey cool champ levels! hey cool! saved covers, but why wasn't this a thing years ago? all those thousands of covers wasted.... nevermind still cool."

    "man I'm getting exhausted playing this I've been saying for years I should quit... hey Bonus heroes, cool! I can finally make some headway in my 4* and maybe finally champ some 5* if I get the iso" (stupid me again drawrate right?) man such a bummer I can't continue almost....

    cool new feature to target your progress! oh yes, finally I can get those 12 cover 5* finished and level them, waitaminute, no Bonus? aww man! that'll slow my progression to a halt! and soooo little shards....

    alright, I have a few 299 and more 295-298 can't wait to get them to 300 to get a 5* cover... more feeders? oh yes! wait change in rewards? (stupid me yet again all I get is less covers overall and a few shards which is worthless)

    I'll give you 3 immediate examples and this not based on math but purely goal oriented as I have had to be to keep playing after getting kicked in the teeth again and again with these updates.

    1. My gamora is 297 I was looking forward to getting her to 300 and a thanos cover. with new rewards: 400 shards and that's counting 2 levels of rewards.

    2. my wolverine is 313 and I was looking forward to finishing the covers on OML when 320. now: a few shards and even if it's enough for a cover it's over many levels and I lose covers overall on EVERY 4*

    3. my 311 medusa: same as wolverine: I can forget to finish black bolt by 320 and losing covers over all.

    4. antman 299: forget about wasp cover and losing covers the list goes on.

    these are just my most immediate examples and this doesn't go into all the small changes that made it difficult to muddle through over the years.

    this was it. 2 updates that both slowed my progression to halt and crippled my ability to get 5* and my way to see any hope, any long term goals in a short amount was the straw that broke  the camels back. I feel like sisyphos.

    I might have spent 1000 dollars over the next few years, but not now. It might be drop in the bucket for all the revenue, but It's my drop, and I'm spending it elsewhere.

    I'm Done with this, I'm out. I guess I should thank d3, they finally got me to try to kick their own addiction. I'm taking a long pause, maybe quitting (but never say never right). Thanks for nothing after having played daily as a full time job for over 5 years (and it sure felt like a job sometimes) to quote an allymate (sorry I can't remember who said it):

    "Don't spit in my face and call it rain".
  • MoosePrimeMoosePrime Posts: 347 Mover and Shaker
    Krek said:
    I'll give you 3 immediate examples and this not based on math but purely goal oriented as I have had to be to keep playing after getting kicked in the teeth again and again with these updates.

    1. My gamora is 297 I was looking forward to getting her to 300 and a thanos cover. with new rewards: 400 shards and that's counting 2 levels of rewards.

    2. my wolverine is 313 and I was looking forward to finishing the covers on OML when 320. now: a few shards and even if it's enough for a cover it's over many levels and I lose covers overall on EVERY 4*

    3. my 311 medusa: same as wolverine: I can forget to finish black bolt by 320 and losing covers over all.

    4. antman 299: forget about wasp cover and losing covers the list goes on.
    Each of these examples were feeders before, you should have received the shards from the earlier levels, so that when you get to level 300 or 320, it will total a complete cover.
  • axmossaxmoss Posts: 132 Tile Toppler
    can i get my mighty tokens for the max champed 3-stars on my roster?
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