***** High Evolutionary (Awesome Mix Vol 3) *****

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Comments

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,018 Chairperson of the Boards

    @dianetics said:

    @entrailbucket said: High Evolutionary is squarely in the meh tier.

    TBH I think you are overvaluing him. He wont benefit when he is boosted. His fired powers are weird.
    Unless he massively over healths the opposing team his usage will be minimal.

    Honestly from user reporting Fatpin has more value than him.

    Maybe! It certainly wouldn't be the first time, or the last.

    But also: I have Kingpin at like lvl510 or something and after his buff, dude completely wrecks face when he's boosted. So I'm not sure how much I trust those reports, plus my roster is very weird. I'll be trivially stomping on 550 Chasms with 672 Starlord this week (who is also meh unless boosted).

  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 234 Tile Toppler

    So what is happening is the boost % is calculated using his unboosted lvl, and is then applied to his boosted stats.

    The interesting thing about this is that if you are only ever going to use him during a boost week, then you want him underleveled.

    @eb's Evo is level 435 which gives him a 38% boost (115/295 = 38% rounded down)
    That boost is applied to his boosted stats at lvl 525, raising his health from 170k to 234k

    A level 550 Evo only has 206k health

    And if Evo had 5 yellows, the boost% would be 38% * 140% = 53% and his health would be 260k.

    Would be interesting to work out the optimum level for him for boost week. Would need health data for all levels to calculate this, and I can't intuitively say what it would be.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,018 Chairperson of the Boards

    There's something else going on here, too, though.

    I reread his powers, and there's a second part to his black ability that cares about how much more health he has than whatever enemy he's hitting with it. I think that's why I found the damage on it to be... acceptable (it wasn't shockingly good or anything, but it wasn't BAD).

    So I'm not sure if you want him underleveled, in that case. It seems like there's no good way to optimize him, because either his yellow will suck or his black will suck

  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 234 Tile Toppler

    Probably because I am a maths nerd!

  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker

    @KGB said:
    I say this, the 5* version might be meh but the 3* version is an incredible tank in PvP.

    I ran into a few teams with him baby champed (L168 type thing) and he was boosted to 270 in his PvP. When I fought the team his health was boosted into the 80K range because I was using boosted Grocket (mine is 473 boosted). So this 3* had 5* champ health which was way more than his 2 L380 4*s or my boosted Grocket. I just retreated right away rather than attempt to chew that.

    Once he's max champed at 266 when he's boosted he'll have well over 100K health when fighting 5* champs. That's just nuts for a 3* character.

    KGB

    I was thinking the same thing today. That version is gonna be a beast for newer rosters.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Ultraman>>better than robocop.
    The 3* version very well could be the main reason this character will be hugely popular.
    If his increased health is true heal this character could help a lot 4* and 3* players, while the 5* version is just another meh character more.

  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 548 Critical Contributor

    @Bad said:
    Ultraman>>better than robocop.
    The 3* version very well could be the main reason this character will be hugely popular.
    If his increased health is true heal this character could help a lot 4* and 3* players, while the 5* version is just another meh character more.

    I'm curious how a lot of these 3* versions of characters end up being better than their 5*. Usually it's only within tier comparisons but this 3* is literally better than the 5* version any way you slice it.

  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream Posts: 2,017 Chairperson of the Boards

    @SourCream said:
    So far, the general view on Evolution is a bit unjust. Largely due to lack of playing with and understanding. Like Kang or Hit-Monkey, he can be very good if you utilize his skillsets.

    Initially, I narrowed on his starting passive only. Did a few retreats to understand the calculation behind it and find it a bit lackluster when Evo is the highest level and somewhat ok when low level. Now, having the chance to play him a few, I found him very good and interesting.

     In short ... a general summary : 
    
    • Blue passive = self battery, free AP every turn.
    • Yellow ability = stackable and compound on new max number , not base. Healing !
    • Black ability = decent damage, can be significantly better with higher health.
    • Base health = Among the highest tier, with Knull being the highest.
    • Base match damage = Highest tier along with Jane, Chasm, Kang, the "new" 5* mostly.

        550s Evo Electro Magik   VS    550s Colossus Hulk Chasm
      

      https://streamable.com/rthjgl
      Why Electro ? Yellow battery.
      Why Magik ? Useless.

       550s Evo Electro Magik  VS    550s Colossus Jane Riri
      

      https://streamable.com/o825wx
      Why Jane ? Free AP and to take advantage of EVO match damage.
      Why Magik ? Useless.

    Keep in mind, it's 2 vs 3. Normal PVP, no Magik and no Colossus negating match damage at 83!%

    Also, my view is from a glasshouse. I have everything and play in a sandbox. So take it for what it's worth, 20 minutes of playtesting or so. Having said that, EVO can be very good and not an useless character.

    Another thing to add is don't base your experience on his feature / boost events. Without getting into the math, Evo has the benefit of low level for extra buff % and the benefit of buffing his boosted stats, instead of normal base. So his numbers are inflated in a good way and not the norm.

    Good stuff! Thank you for sharing.

    I think we have entered a stage where the explanations provided have made it difficult to understand and determine what a character actually does. It would be very helpful if they made an event similar to Welcome to S.H.I.E.L.D. that provided a fully covered character, ideally scaled to a player's roster, so a player could play test the new character and see if they like the character's skillset or not.

  • Zarqa
    Zarqa Posts: 497 Mover and Shaker

    @fight4thedream said:

    Good stuff! Thank you for sharing.

    I think we have entered a stage where the explanations provided have made it difficult to understand and determine what a character actually does. It would be very helpful if they made an event similar to Welcome to S.H.I.E.L.D. that provided a fully covered character, ideally scaled to a player's roster, so a player could play test the new character and see if they like the character's skillset or not.

    I think that’s a great idea. Or you could do three rounds similar to DDQ:

    • 3-star loaner and requires you to use other 3-stars
    • 5-star loaner and requires you to use 4-stars only
    • 5-star loaner and allows you to use anything.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,088 Chairperson of the Boards

    Arcade was such a pain to get a grasp on what he does and do a writeup for that it set my character rankings guide WAY back because I got stuck and didn’t update.

    This guy seems to be the worst offender yet. I have no idea how to rank this guy or even explain what he does. My big picture understanding is:

    • If lower level he boosts himself up a lot and his team a little

    • If highest level his passive yellow does nothing, but it increases how much he can boost friendlies with his active yellow.

    • The bigger the level discrepancy the bigger the boost

    • Despite looking good on paper the boosts are pretty negligible.

    • However the extra damage gets taken off before “true health” is touched, making him health pack friendly.

    • He’s a great battery for a single color if you have an outlet for the AP

    • The higher the level, the more damage he does with black. But he also gets less of a boost from yellow.

    • Since he’s percentage based, boost weeks don’t really help him much.

    Did I get any of that wrong?

    Is that roughly it?

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    @SourCream said:
    So far, the general view on Evolution is a bit unjust. Largely due to lack of playing with and understanding. Like Kang or Hit-Monkey, he can be very good if you utilize his skillsets.

    No, the general view is unjust because devs are showing a great skill releasing bugged characters and because great swing and miss like Magik and Jeff.
    Still many of you are talking about playing 550 characters and not everyone has them.
    By the way, are the bugs with his skills already fixed?

  • SourCream
    SourCream Posts: 104 Tile Toppler

    @Bad said:

    @SourCream said:
    So far, the general view on Evolution is a bit unjust. Largely due to lack of playing with and understanding. Like Kang or Hit-Monkey, he can be very good if you utilize his skillsets.

    No, the general view is unjust because devs are showing a great skill releasing bugged characters and because great swing and miss like Magik and Jeff.
    Still many of you are talking about playing 550 characters and not everyone has them.
    By the way, are the bugs with his skills already fixed?

    I'm not trying do a sales pitch here, just telling how I read, played, and saw it.
    Since you want to focus solely on the negatives. Answer me these :

    What is the bug ? or bugs ?
    Have you play the 3* PVP ? 5* PVP ?
    How many covers you have for the 3* and the 5* ?

    To be blunt, do you even play or understand his full skillset ?

    As for the 550s, that just my MMR. Also playing against same level, not punching up or down.
    If 450s vs 450s, same fight, just different class.
    Anyhow, please don't answer, I have no interest in debating.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,018 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2023

    @Daredevil217 a few things...

    Edit: see correction below!

    His black deals a small, percentage-based amount of permanent damage, and then deals regular damage that may or may not be small.

    Boost weeks do help him, because his passive buff gets added to his boosted stats.

    I think you got everything else? I agree that there is no way to understand many of the more complicated new characters on paper. Evolutionary really surprised me -- based on this thread, I expected him to be garbage-tier bad, and he's not that at all.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,018 Chairperson of the Boards

    Ha, correction! I was wrong about the battery power. When the enemy makes a match or casts a power, Evolutionary gives your team 1AP in whichever enemy is in front's strongest color.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,018 Chairperson of the Boards

    His black power appears to be significantly better than how it reads.

    I just got enough shards from PvE to champion him. In one of the later challenge nodes, I just saw his black hit for about 140,000 damage on one cast (it oneshotted one of the Maggia thugs). This was after casting Evolutionary's yellow on himself twice, I think.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    @SourCream said:

    @Bad said:

    @SourCream said:
    So far, the general view on Evolution is a bit unjust. Largely due to lack of playing with and understanding. Like Kang or Hit-Monkey, he can be very good if you utilize his skillsets.

    No, the general view is unjust because devs are showing a great skill releasing bugged characters and because great swing and miss like Magik and Jeff.
    Still many of you are talking about playing 550 characters and not everyone has them.
    By the way, are the bugs with his skills already fixed?

    I'm not trying do a sales pitch here, just telling how I read, played, and saw it.
    Since you want to focus solely on the negatives. Answer me these :

    What is the bug ? or bugs ?
    Have you play the 3* PVP ? 5* PVP ?
    How many covers you have for the 3* and the 5* ?

    To be blunt, do you even play or understand his full skillset ?

    As for the 550s, that just my MMR. Also playing against same level, not punching up or down.
    If 450s vs 450s, same fight, just different class.
    Anyhow, please don't answer, I have no interest in debating.

    Oops! I answered. Any of that doesn't deny the facts I was talking about, you know, bugs and swing and misses.
    No, I don't play his full skillset because I don't have all the covers like you have in a not transparent way.
    No need to be so offended lol. Right now there are some vacants in a place of knights...

  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 234 Tile Toppler

    @eb I agree his black does seem to be too high.
    Watching @SourCream's above stream of:
    550s Evo Electro Magik VS 550s Colossus Hulk Chasm
    I don't understand the damage from his black:

    Paused at 1:12, hovering over Evo's black you can see
    Black power reads "deals additional damage up to 18% of his maximum health (Current max additional damage: 77,297)"
    77,297 is 18% of 429,427 which @SourCream has achieved by repeatedly firing Evo's yellow on himself for consecutive 13% boosts which I can reconcile.

    Then at 1:13 @SourCream fires the black at Colossus who has 165,502 health out of a max 177,130 and it downs him, (although the damage figure next to his 0 health actually reads "-144,247").

    I believe the damage should have been 12% of Colossus' max health = 12% * 177,130 = 21,255 plus the bonus damage of 77,297 per the black description and therefore total damage of 98,552, Colossus should not be downed by Evo's black.

    I don't believe that Electro or Magik are providing any buffs, so I can't explain what is happening here. Given the recent spate of bugs we have seen, I don't know if this is more of the same, or if I am missing something?

    This level of damage does seem to make Evo more attractive again.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,018 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2023

    I think the black power is just worded very oddly -- I reread it like 10 times and I'm still not clear on exactly what it's supposed to do. It has something to do with Evolutionary's health though. When I use his yellow on him, it's definitely, noticeably increasing the damage it does. Of note: in the team I'm using, for whatever reason, he can only cast his yellow power on himself. I still haven't figured out why that is.

    Edit: wait, his yellow power says it also boosts ability damage. Is it possible that the boost from that is being applied AFTER everything else is calculated, instead of applying to the base?