***** High Evolutionary (Awesome Mix Vol 3) *****

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  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,843 Chairperson of the Boards

    Hahaha, so that 550 number in his powerset is hardcoded? Oof. I thought it might scale if he's boosted. His black power is percentage based, so it presumably also doesn't scale with the boost...

    Not lookin' good for ol' Evolutionary here

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yeah, hard pass until his balance pass 🤣

  • ThisisClemFandango
    ThisisClemFandango Posts: 1,069 Chairperson of the Boards

    25 shards away from a fully champed kang, looks like I can get back to hoarding for the foreseeable

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Sad to agree and we have a solid contestant to Bugged Awards 2023.
    He could be the first character who needs a complete rework before his release.
    Add him to the long queue of tasks to do in the game, devs.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,843 Chairperson of the Boards

    There's a fantastic general point to be made here.

    Percentage-based abilities in MPQ, that don't scale with level, are either horrifically bad or way, way too good, with very little middle ground. They should stop making them altogether.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,509 Chairperson of the Boards

    Normalized abilities are a thing in arpgs with no legs. If you don’t feel getiing more powerful the hampster Wheel has no power.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,843 Chairperson of the Boards

    @dianetics said:
    Normalized abilities are a thing in arpgs with no legs. If you don’t feel getiing more powerful the hampster Wheel has no power.

    Oh you nailed it, that's exactly it! I didn't think about why those abilities are bad (or sometimes, too good). It's because MPQ is all about the hamster wheel! The whole point of this game is levelling up your guys, and fixed-percentage abilities make that pointless.

  • tonypq
    tonypq Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2023

    [Redacted]

    It's getting harder and harder to get excited for any new characters these days, at least for me. The only puzzle in this game trying to figure out these complex characters getting churned out left and right.

    Complex wouldn't be too bad if the abilities worked and the character was actually good. With some of these characters just seems like a big waste of everyone's time, developers and players. Releasing complex characters that either aren't fun, weak sauce, or bugged. Then players having to decipher what level of trash we got from release to release and see these dud characters clog up the latest legend store for months.

    Mod note: Removed inappropriate comment - fight4thedream

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,324 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2023

    @tonypq said:
    [redacted]

    It's getting harder and harder to get excited for any new characters these days, at least for me. The only puzzle in this game trying to figure out these complex characters getting churned out left and right.

    Complex wouldn't be too bad if the abilities worked and the character was actually good. With some of these characters just seems like a big waste of everyone's time, developers and players. Releasing complex characters that either aren't fun, weak sauce, or bugged. Then players having to decipher what level of trash we got from release to release and see these dud characters clog up the latest legend store for months.
    Mod note: Removed inappropriate comment - fight4thedream

    This is not cool. We all joke around about this stuff but this post is crossing lines in my opinion. Please reconsider that a lot of obvious effort went into this design and that it doesn't work is not intentionally meant to offend us.

  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,092 Chairperson of the Boards

    Ok. So he boosts his black damage with his yellow. But not his blue.

  • SourCream
    SourCream Posts: 104 Tile Toppler

    TLDR, to sum up his start of battle passive :

    • If 550 Evo with 370 4* + 450 5*

    370 4* will get 85% boost in health and match damage.
    450 5* will get 47% boost in health and match damage.

    Using formula provided by @trenchdigger.
    Difference in levels divide by 295, then time 140% (5Covers)

    4* = 180/295140% = 85%
    5
    = 100/295*140% = 47%

    • If 450 Evo with 370 4* + 450 5*

    370 4* will get 37% boost in health and match damage.
    Any 5* 450 or above will get 0% boost in health and match damage.

    Currently, ability damage not boosting.
    Also, weekly or newly boost levels will not be a factor in computation.

  • purplemur
    purplemur Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @tonypq said:
    Feels like the few people responsible for character creation and development throw all these abilities together after taking repeated bong hits.

    Each had their own ideas that at the time sounded good. Stoned out their minds concensus couldn't be reached, so they agree just mash everything together and release the character.

    It's getting harder and harder to get excited for any new characters these days, at least for me. The only puzzle in this game trying to figure out these complex characters getting churned out left and right.

    Complex wouldn't be too bad if the abilities worked and the character was actually good. With some of these characters just seems like a big waste of everyone's time, developers and players. Releasing complex characters that either aren't fun, weak sauce, or bugged. Then players having to decipher what level of trash we got from release to release and see these dud characters clog up the latest legend store for months.

    This is not cool. We all joke around about this stuff but this post is crossing lines in my opinion. Please reconsider that a lot of obvious effort went into this design and that it doesn't work is not intentionally meant to offend us.

    Really? after the multiple spamming snark threads, joke polls, and admitted teasing at their expense - YOU wanna play tu-tut thats a bridge too far? Over what?: insinuation that these new designs don’t make any sense?
    Please un-ban hound so the chairpersons can have a new reason to clog up threads with their need to selective outrage.

  • ThisisClemFandango
    ThisisClemFandango Posts: 1,069 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2023

    @purplemur said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @tonypq said:
    Feels like the few people responsible for character creation and development throw all these abilities together after taking repeated bong hits.

    Each had their own ideas that at the time sounded good. Stoned out their minds concensus couldn't be reached, so they agree just mash everything together and release the character.

    It's getting harder and harder to get excited for any new characters these days, at least for me. The only puzzle in this game trying to figure out these complex characters getting churned out left and right.

    Complex wouldn't be too bad if the abilities worked and the character was actually good. With some of these characters just seems like a big waste of everyone's time, developers and players. Releasing complex characters that either aren't fun, weak sauce, or bugged. Then players having to decipher what level of trash we got from release to release and see these dud characters clog up the latest legend store for months.

    This is not cool. We all joke around about this stuff but this post is crossing lines in my opinion. Please reconsider that a lot of obvious effort went into this design and that it doesn't work is not intentionally meant to offend us.

    Really? after the multiple spamming snark threads, joke polls, and admitted teasing at their expense - YOU wanna play tu-tut thats a bridge too far? Over what?: insinuation that these new designs don’t make any sense?
    Please un-ban hound so the chairpersons can have a new reason to clog up threads with their need to selective outrage.

    Ohhh, won't somebody please think of the children!

    • I had to edit because if I'm going to quote the Simpsons then by god its gonna be accurate
  • purplemur
    purplemur Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker

    ehhxcellent! Lets derail this thread with Simpsons quotes!

    Everytime they drop chars like this I think of Abe asleep on the job…

    “stupid babies need the most attention! “

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,324 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2023

    @purplemur said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @tonypq said:
    Feels like the few people responsible for character creation and development throw all these abilities together after taking repeated bong hits.

    Each had their own ideas that at the time sounded good. Stoned out their minds concensus couldn't be reached, so they agree just mash everything together and release the character.

    It's getting harder and harder to get excited for any new characters these days, at least for me. The only puzzle in this game trying to figure out these complex characters getting churned out left and right.

    Complex wouldn't be too bad if the abilities worked and the character was actually good. With some of these characters just seems like a big waste of everyone's time, developers and players. Releasing complex characters that either aren't fun, weak sauce, or bugged. Then players having to decipher what level of trash we got from release to release and see these dud characters clog up the latest legend store for months.

    This is not cool. We all joke around about this stuff but this post is crossing lines in my opinion. Please reconsider that a lot of obvious effort went into this design and that it doesn't work is not intentionally meant to offend us.

    Really? after the multiple spamming snark threads, joke polls, and admitted teasing at their expense - YOU wanna play tu-tut thats a bridge too far? Over what?: insinuation that these new designs don’t make any sense?
    Please un-ban hound so the chairpersons can have a new reason to clog up threads with their need to selective outrage.

    There are ways to express disappointment that don't involve insulting people's effort and questioning their professionalism. So yes. Really, really. You do your work stoned? Good for you if you do. This character is "complex". That means effort was put into making it so. It seems to have failed but not through intent or lack of trying. So go take your Hound accusation and go tell us all to adjust our expectations. Sometimes things don't need to be nasty.

    Edit: BTW I am sorry that anything I have posted here on this forum seems to have personally offended you. You can always alert the Mods to anything I do that you find insufferable, I can assure you they have no issues with warning me or deleting my posts. Or you can put me on ignore. None of this is snarky or being belligerent - I sincerely have no wish to make any other posters here have an experience that takes away from what the forum should give them. I think the post I quoted was unnecessarily ****. You think I am being hypocritical. That is fine. We can talk about it or not but I would sooner not post again than make any other posters here have a poor experience, so sorry if I have done that to you.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,843 Chairperson of the Boards

    I finally had a chance to play with him in PvE today (mine is lvl435, 4/4/4, sadly I only had one 370 Nebula).

    He's...fine. Really! I'm running him with 672 Starlord and Thanos, and his passive gives him something like 60k additional health at the start of the match. I think it might be true heal, by accident. I was trying to work it out -- I think if he takes less than 60k damage in the fight, then it doesn't "count" (or maybe I'm too dumb to track it correctly).

    I didn't notice his AP generation because it's pretty slow, and his blue active didn't seem worth casting -- the damage feels low, and the "reduce enemy's effectiveness"/stun part of it doesn't get the value up to 8ap at the 5* tier.

    In that team, I'm only allowed to fire his active yellow on himself, for some reason, but it gives him like 20,000 health. The match damage boost was noticeable but not great, and the ability probably isn't worth 6ap.

    I have no idea how his black calculates, but when I cast it, it hit very hard. It feels like enough damage for an 8ap single-target 5* power.

    So, like, he's fine. He's not good, and I will never use him unboosted. But he's not Abigail (who has one ok power and two powers that do nothing at all), or pre-buff Wasp (who did exactly nothing), or some of the old 5* like BSS that are badly undertuned for today's MPQ. He's an average 5* in 2023.

  • Zarqa
    Zarqa Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker

    Our goal with any character is to place them in at least the top 1/3 of characters of that tier.

    Does he fall within the top 1/3 of 5 stars?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,843 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2023

    @Zarqa said:

    Our goal with any character is to place them in at least the top 1/3 of characters of that tier.

    Does he fall within the top 1/3 of 5 stars?

    I think you're asking me this? I'll answer anyway!

    Well, I'll tell you why I can't answer, more specifically. In the current MPQ meta, I don't believe it's possible to do a ranking of 5*. (Or, at least, I couldn't do this). To me, 5* today fall into 3 general tiers: usable unboosted (this is Chasm, Thor, etc), usable only when boosted (this is like 90% of them), not usable even when boosted (Abigail, Heimdall, BSS, Black Widow, etc).

    The "usable unboosted" tier is very small -- way less than 1/3 of the tier. Most 5* fall into the "only when boosted" tier, and that's where I'd put this guy.

    (I also think the top and bottom tiers shouldn't exist at all, and are a huge problem, for whatever that's worth. In a world where characters get +100 levels, anybody getting that boost should be good, and nobody unboosted should be better than them.)

  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream Posts: 2,017 Chairperson of the Boards

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  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 232 Tile Toppler

    @eb
    The health boost of 60k you quoted seems too high.
    Running Evo at 435 with 4 yellow, the boost should be 115/295 * 100% * base health (I will assume 90k for lvl 435) = 35k boost.

    I think your observation about this health boost being true heal, matches what I have seen with the 3* version in his pvp.

    Your black should be dealing 10% of the target max. health, which will be considerable if you are fighting against lvl 672 opposition, but only as permanent damage to their max. health not their current health.