***** High Evolutionary (Awesome Mix Vol 3) *****

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  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
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    @Bad said:
    Ultraman>>better than robocop.
    The 3* version very well could be the main reason this character will be hugely popular.
    If his increased health is true heal this character could help a lot 4* and 3* players, while the 5* version is just another meh character more.

    I'm curious how a lot of these 3* versions of characters end up being better than their 5*. Usually it's only within tier comparisons but this 3* is literally better than the 5* version any way you slice it.

  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,930 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @SourCream said:
    So far, the general view on Evolution is a bit unjust. Largely due to lack of playing with and understanding. Like Kang or Hit-Monkey, he can be very good if you utilize his skillsets.

    Initially, I narrowed on his starting passive only. Did a few retreats to understand the calculation behind it and find it a bit lackluster when Evo is the highest level and somewhat ok when low level. Now, having the chance to play him a few, I found him very good and interesting.

     In short ... a general summary : 
    
    • Blue passive = self battery, free AP every turn.
    • Yellow ability = stackable and compound on new max number , not base. Healing !
    • Black ability = decent damage, can be significantly better with higher health.
    • Base health = Among the highest tier, with Knull being the highest.
    • Base match damage = Highest tier along with Jane, Chasm, Kang, the "new" 5* mostly.

        550s Evo Electro Magik   VS    550s Colossus Hulk Chasm
      

      https://streamable.com/rthjgl
      Why Electro ? Yellow battery.
      Why Magik ? Useless.

       550s Evo Electro Magik  VS    550s Colossus Jane Riri
      

      https://streamable.com/o825wx
      Why Jane ? Free AP and to take advantage of EVO match damage.
      Why Magik ? Useless.

    Keep in mind, it's 2 vs 3. Normal PVP, no Magik and no Colossus negating match damage at 83!%

    Also, my view is from a glasshouse. I have everything and play in a sandbox. So take it for what it's worth, 20 minutes of playtesting or so. Having said that, EVO can be very good and not an useless character.

    Another thing to add is don't base your experience on his feature / boost events. Without getting into the math, Evo has the benefit of low level for extra buff % and the benefit of buffing his boosted stats, instead of normal base. So his numbers are inflated in a good way and not the norm.

    Good stuff! Thank you for sharing.

    I think we have entered a stage where the explanations provided have made it difficult to understand and determine what a character actually does. It would be very helpful if they made an event similar to Welcome to S.H.I.E.L.D. that provided a fully covered character, ideally scaled to a player's roster, so a player could play test the new character and see if they like the character's skillset or not.

  • Zarqa
    Zarqa Posts: 266 Mover and Shaker
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    @fight4thedream said:

    Good stuff! Thank you for sharing.

    I think we have entered a stage where the explanations provided have made it difficult to understand and determine what a character actually does. It would be very helpful if they made an event similar to Welcome to S.H.I.E.L.D. that provided a fully covered character, ideally scaled to a player's roster, so a player could play test the new character and see if they like the character's skillset or not.

    I think that’s a great idea. Or you could do three rounds similar to DDQ:

    • 3-star loaner and requires you to use other 3-stars
    • 5-star loaner and requires you to use 4-stars only
    • 5-star loaner and allows you to use anything.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,925 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Arcade was such a pain to get a grasp on what he does and do a writeup for that it set my character rankings guide WAY back because I got stuck and didn’t update.

    This guy seems to be the worst offender yet. I have no idea how to rank this guy or even explain what he does. My big picture understanding is:

    • If lower level he boosts himself up a lot and his team a little

    • If highest level his passive yellow does nothing, but it increases how much he can boost friendlies with his active yellow.

    • The bigger the level discrepancy the bigger the boost

    • Despite looking good on paper the boosts are pretty negligible.

    • However the extra damage gets taken off before “true health” is touched, making him health pack friendly.

    • He’s a great battery for a single color if you have an outlet for the AP

    • The higher the level, the more damage he does with black. But he also gets less of a boost from yellow.

    • Since he’s percentage based, boost weeks don’t really help him much.

    Did I get any of that wrong?

    Is that roughly it?

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @SourCream said:
    So far, the general view on Evolution is a bit unjust. Largely due to lack of playing with and understanding. Like Kang or Hit-Monkey, he can be very good if you utilize his skillsets.

    No, the general view is unjust because devs are showing a great skill releasing bugged characters and because great swing and miss like Magik and Jeff.
    Still many of you are talking about playing 550 characters and not everyone has them.
    By the way, are the bugs with his skills already fixed?

  • SourCream
    SourCream Posts: 103 Tile Toppler
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    @Bad said:

    @SourCream said:
    So far, the general view on Evolution is a bit unjust. Largely due to lack of playing with and understanding. Like Kang or Hit-Monkey, he can be very good if you utilize his skillsets.

    No, the general view is unjust because devs are showing a great skill releasing bugged characters and because great swing and miss like Magik and Jeff.
    Still many of you are talking about playing 550 characters and not everyone has them.
    By the way, are the bugs with his skills already fixed?

    I'm not trying do a sales pitch here, just telling how I read, played, and saw it.
    Since you want to focus solely on the negatives. Answer me these :

    What is the bug ? or bugs ?
    Have you play the 3* PVP ? 5* PVP ?
    How many covers you have for the 3* and the 5* ?

    To be blunt, do you even play or understand his full skillset ?

    As for the 550s, that just my MMR. Also playing against same level, not punching up or down.
    If 450s vs 450s, same fight, just different class.
    Anyhow, please don't answer, I have no interest in debating.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,022 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2023
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    @Daredevil217 a few things...

    Edit: see correction below!

    His black deals a small, percentage-based amount of permanent damage, and then deals regular damage that may or may not be small.

    Boost weeks do help him, because his passive buff gets added to his boosted stats.

    I think you got everything else? I agree that there is no way to understand many of the more complicated new characters on paper. Evolutionary really surprised me -- based on this thread, I expected him to be garbage-tier bad, and he's not that at all.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,022 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ha, correction! I was wrong about the battery power. When the enemy makes a match or casts a power, Evolutionary gives your team 1AP in whichever enemy is in front's strongest color.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,022 Chairperson of the Boards
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    His black power appears to be significantly better than how it reads.

    I just got enough shards from PvE to champion him. In one of the later challenge nodes, I just saw his black hit for about 140,000 damage on one cast (it oneshotted one of the Maggia thugs). This was after casting Evolutionary's yellow on himself twice, I think.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @SourCream said:

    @Bad said:

    @SourCream said:
    So far, the general view on Evolution is a bit unjust. Largely due to lack of playing with and understanding. Like Kang or Hit-Monkey, he can be very good if you utilize his skillsets.

    No, the general view is unjust because devs are showing a great skill releasing bugged characters and because great swing and miss like Magik and Jeff.
    Still many of you are talking about playing 550 characters and not everyone has them.
    By the way, are the bugs with his skills already fixed?

    I'm not trying do a sales pitch here, just telling how I read, played, and saw it.
    Since you want to focus solely on the negatives. Answer me these :

    What is the bug ? or bugs ?
    Have you play the 3* PVP ? 5* PVP ?
    How many covers you have for the 3* and the 5* ?

    To be blunt, do you even play or understand his full skillset ?

    As for the 550s, that just my MMR. Also playing against same level, not punching up or down.
    If 450s vs 450s, same fight, just different class.
    Anyhow, please don't answer, I have no interest in debating.

    Oops! I answered. Any of that doesn't deny the facts I was talking about, you know, bugs and swing and misses.
    No, I don't play his full skillset because I don't have all the covers like you have in a not transparent way.
    No need to be so offended lol. Right now there are some vacants in a place of knights...

  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 118 Tile Toppler
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    @eb I agree his black does seem to be too high.
    Watching @SourCream's above stream of:
    550s Evo Electro Magik VS 550s Colossus Hulk Chasm
    I don't understand the damage from his black:

    Paused at 1:12, hovering over Evo's black you can see
    Black power reads "deals additional damage up to 18% of his maximum health (Current max additional damage: 77,297)"
    77,297 is 18% of 429,427 which @SourCream has achieved by repeatedly firing Evo's yellow on himself for consecutive 13% boosts which I can reconcile.

    Then at 1:13 @SourCream fires the black at Colossus who has 165,502 health out of a max 177,130 and it downs him, (although the damage figure next to his 0 health actually reads "-144,247").

    I believe the damage should have been 12% of Colossus' max health = 12% * 177,130 = 21,255 plus the bonus damage of 77,297 per the black description and therefore total damage of 98,552, Colossus should not be downed by Evo's black.

    I don't believe that Electro or Magik are providing any buffs, so I can't explain what is happening here. Given the recent spate of bugs we have seen, I don't know if this is more of the same, or if I am missing something?

    This level of damage does seem to make Evo more attractive again.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,022 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2023
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    I think the black power is just worded very oddly -- I reread it like 10 times and I'm still not clear on exactly what it's supposed to do. It has something to do with Evolutionary's health though. When I use his yellow on him, it's definitely, noticeably increasing the damage it does. Of note: in the team I'm using, for whatever reason, he can only cast his yellow power on himself. I still haven't figured out why that is.

    Edit: wait, his yellow power says it also boosts ability damage. Is it possible that the boost from that is being applied AFTER everything else is calculated, instead of applying to the base?

  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
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    In the pvp I'm not getting a boost to any allies with the passive at the start of battle. It doesn't matter higher level, lower level, boosted, unboosted, 2s/3s/4s/5s etc. He is only boosting himself at the beginning of each match.

    For clarification this is with the loaner so that may or may not be part of the issue.

  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 118 Tile Toppler
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    @eb that could be it.
    The ability damage threshold % is also boosted, but the % threshold boost isn't being shown in the text for the black power.

    To explain:
    @SourCream fired yellow 6 times. Each time this boosted health and ability damage by 13%.

    Starting health = 206,266
    Boosted health = 206,266 * 1.13 to the power of 6 = 429,436

    Bonus black damage = difference between Evo and Colossus's max health
    = 429,436 - 177,130
    252,306

    but restricted to 18% of Evo's max health = 429,436 * 18% = 77,297
    which is the figure shown in the text for the black power, and reconciles.

    If the 13% increase in ability damage is also used to increase the threshold limitation from 18% then this threshold would become = 77,297 *1.13 to the power of 6 = 160,928
    In effect the threshold is increasing from 18% to 37%.

    That plus the base damage of 12% of Colossus's max health (which may itself also have been boosted by the 6 yellow powers from 12% to 25%) would be enough to down Colossus.

    It doesn't feel like that is how yellow is supposed to work. The damage is getting the 13% increase twice every time yellow is fired. Once due to the increase in health and once due to the increase in the threshold. If the threshold is supposed to be 18% of health difference, then surely that % should stay the same. If this is the cause of the unexplained level of black damage, then it definitely feels like a bug. But I doubt we will ever find out exactly what calculations are going on under the covers.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,022 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @trenchdigger After messing around a bit more, I think that's exactly what's happening.

    I really can't say if it's a bug or not. The description doesn't tell us enough. It could certainly be meant to work like this.

    Either way, it's much, much better than it looks on paper, because of the way these percentages are getting applied.

  • Itsmeabxab
    Itsmeabxab Posts: 26 Just Dropped In
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    So is he good now lol

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,311 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Trying to follow this thread but it seems like you want to amass yellow, apply it multiple times to 5EVO and then fire black? Or am I incorrect? Thanks.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,022 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2023
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    @LavaManLee said:
    Trying to follow this thread but it seems like you want to amass yellow, apply it multiple times to 5EVO and then fire black? Or am I incorrect? Thanks.

    That'll definitely make his black do a ton of damage. It may be one of the single biggest damage powers in the game? I'm certainly not used to getting 140k for 8ap, even with 672s!

  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
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    Got bored and played around with the 3-star version.