***** High Evolutionary (Awesome Mix Vol 3) *****

1356789

Comments

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,754 Chairperson of the Boards

    @wymtime said:
    Black will be best as a first hit on an opponent and high health opponents overall.

    I disagree here. Black works best as a finishing move when the opponent is low on health. The reason is the bonus damage gets higher when the opponent has less health since the difference part is always calculated against your 'max health'.

    Example
    Both characters have 90K health. If you fire Black, you only do 12% damage = 10.8K permanent damage
    Enemy character has 30K health. If you fire black you do 3.6K permanent damage + (90-30)*.18 = 10.8 = 14.4 damage.

    Once the enemy reaches ~15K you will down them.

    KGB

  • darkwatcherDEZ
    darkwatcherDEZ Posts: 114 Tile Toppler

    Blue is very thematic. The longer the fight goes...The more time you allow EVO to plot and plan (sort of like Sinister). His Research Counters seem to be similar in a sense to Shang's Combo points and more so Big Wheel's Speed points... Suppose Research points does not have a ring to it, but you get the idea.

    Yellow could add another layer to MPQ gameplay. For 550 5's it could let you bring along any one of the 4's and potentially boost them up to a viable threat. When boosted, EVO can bump up any unboosted. B-Champ 5*'s and below get even more possibilities.

    Could feel like the Lost in Time: Balancing Act event

  • Skindo
    Skindo Posts: 11 Just Dropped In

    @darkwatcherDEZ said:

    **Yellow could add another layer to MPQ gameplay. For 550 5's it could let you bring along any one of the 4's and potentially boost them up to a viable threat. **When boosted, EVO can bump up any unboosted. B-Champ 5*'s and below get even more possibilities.

    This is what I hope for the most. Some of the soft-cappers have said that they want to stay where 4* are still useful, and I get that given the large 4 roster and how fun team-building can be. Hevo sounds like he can add some tier synergy that was missing before. If this is the goal behind his kit, he sounds very interesting. As someone looking to transition to 5* it sounds like he might be he helpful there too. If his yellow is worded correctly (I really hope it is, but I worry they might mean highest level on his team rather than highest on either team), it sounds like he could also be useful and fun on pve nodes.

    I agree that his complicated description ensures that we need to see how he really works before making any judgments; but if he does make a lot more teams viable in difficult encounters, I am fine with how complicated his powers are.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,754 Chairperson of the Boards

    @dianetics said:

    @KGB said:
    I disagree here. Black works best as a finishing move when the opponent is low on health. The reason is the bonus damage gets higher when the opponent has less health since the difference part is always calculated against your 'max health'.

    I think your reading of the ability is wrong.
    "Then if his maximum health is greater than the target's"
    It appears that bonus damage is based on the opponents maximum health not current health. So it should be used as an opener.

    So you're reading 'his' as 'his opponents' health? I read 'his maximum health' as meaning High Evolutionary's max health (including any bonus health from his Yellow boost) since target clearly refers to the target your damaging.

    In other words, you get the 2nd part of the damage if High Evolutionary's max health is > targets current health.

    KGB

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,012 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2023

    This is just one example of a few odd wording choices on this guy...I have a feeling that when we start using him his powerset will make sense, but until then I don't think we can judge too well.

  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,603 Chairperson of the Boards

    This could force people into some tough decisions. > @KGB said:

    @dianetics said:

    @KGB said:
    I disagree here. Black works best as a finishing move when the opponent is low on health. The reason is the bonus damage gets higher when the opponent has less health since the difference part is always calculated against your 'max health'.

    I think your reading of the ability is wrong.
    "Then if his maximum health is greater than the target's"
    It appears that bonus damage is based on the opponents maximum health not current health. So it should be used as an opener.

    So you're reading 'his' as 'his opponents' health? I read 'his maximum health' as meaning High Evolutionary's max health (including any bonus health from his Yellow boost) since target clearly refers to the target your damaging.

    In other words, you get the 2nd part of the damage if High Evolutionary's max health is > targets current health.

    KGB

    I feel like we need to recruit an MTG editor to help parse descriptions now. These conditionals really do have impact on how they will be played in the heat of the match. It goes without say, Legion is great for events like puzzle gauntlet. But even if Legion stats were 5* meta, no one would use him at the end of their climbs/hops because its complicated to play effectively.

    Based on the dev's events road- map, I would like to get a better understanding of the mix of pve/pvp/ independent(Boss Events, one-shots, puzzle gauntlet). Is it going to be 40/40/20 per season? Complex characters have a roll in events with non-standard rule sets. The devs need to outline a roadmap of the types of events we will see. In return, the players can better evaluate chars in that context.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2023

    There's nothing confusing about the phrasing.
    You know there are female characters in the game too right? Why would "His" be referring to the enemy character when the enemy is quite possibly a female?

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,754 Chairperson of the Boards

    @dianetics said:

    @KGB said:
    So you're reading 'his' as 'his opponents' health? I read 'his maximum health' as meaning High Evolutionary's max health (including any bonus health from his Yellow boost) since target clearly refers to the target your damaging.

    I am reading it as:
    EVO's maximum health and his opponents maximum health. Not his opponents current health.

    To use your terminology: EVO's max health is > targets max health.

    If it works the way you describe his Black power will be garbage because it will be doing less and less damage as the target gets weaker and weaker. Yes, the opponent max health will be going down 'some' via the Black power permanent damage component but other damage sources (match, powers from other characters, attack tiles etc) won't lower the opponent max health.

    KGB

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yellow passive says: he receives up to 50% bonus max health and 10% bonus ability and base match damage based on the difference in levels, up to level 550.
    So if I play a level 450 Evo and I have another character at level 480, the difference would be 30 levels.
    The way I see it, he would gain at level 5, 75 levels, then he would be like a level 525.
    " Then his team gains half those bonuses, up to his level". If his level is the initial one, the character level 480 and the other one (if it's above Evo) wouldn't receive any bonus.
    If it's this new level, 525, the character level 480 would receive like 30 levels and the other one, based on their level. Obviously this second option is totally broken and I think the first case it's the right one so imo it's advisable to not have an Evo too high, but also not too low for to support a third character, also because of the active yellow and black.
    Then it's needed to see if it's working like my guess, if it's working without bugs, and finally if it doesn't get a prenerf.

  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,768 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2023

    @KGB said:

    @wymtime said:
    Black will be best as a first hit on an opponent and high health opponents overall.

    I disagree here. Black works best as a finishing move when the opponent is low on health. The reason is the bonus damage gets higher when the opponent has less health since the difference part is always calculated against your 'max health'.

    Example
    Both characters have 90K health. If you fire Black, you only do 12% damage = 10.8K permanent damage
    Enemy character has 30K health. If you fire black you do 3.6K permanent damage + (90-30)*.18 = 10.8 = 14.4 damage.

    Once the enemy reaches ~15K you will down them.

    KGB

    It is up to 18% of the damage. This means if they are both 90K health once the target hits 73.8K health or 18% below max health black will do max damage. That would be 8856 permanent damage and 13284 permanent damage. If you are waiting for 15k damage you are wasting damage. You would be better off using black earlier than later.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,754 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2023

    @wymtime said:

    @KGB said:

    @wymtime said:
    Black will be best as a first hit on an opponent and high health opponents overall.

    I disagree here. Black works best as a finishing move when the opponent is low on health. The reason is the bonus damage gets higher when the opponent has less health since the difference part is always calculated against your 'max health'.

    Example
    Both characters have 90K health. If you fire Black, you only do 12% damage = 10.8K permanent damage
    Enemy character has 30K health. If you fire black you do 3.6K permanent damage + (90-30)*.18 = 10.8 = 14.4 damage.

    Once the enemy reaches ~15K you will down them.

    KGB

    It is up to 18% of the damage. This means if they are both 90K health once the target hits 73.8K health or 18% below max health black will do max damage. That would be 8856 permanent damage and 13284 permanent damage. If you are waiting for 15k damage you are wasting damage. You would be better off using black earlier than later.

    So your saying it works like this:

    Both characters have 90K health. If you fire Black you do 12% permanent damage (10.8K) and then since his health > target health (current or max?) you do 12% more damage (difference between 90K and 79.2) or another 10.8K for a total of 21.6 damage.

    Enemy Has 70K health (current or max?). If you fire Black you do 12% permanent damage (8.4) and then since his health > target health) do you 18% more (capped at 18% enemy health difference since enemy more than 18% from his max) or another 16.2K (90*.18) for a total of 24.6 damage.

    That certainly makes his Black a lot better since that 18% part gets fixed at 16.2K damage pretty quickly once the target gets more than 18% lower than his max health.

    KGB

  • heybub
    heybub Posts: 297 Mover and Shaker

    @KGB said:

    @wymtime said:

    @KGB said:

    @wymtime said:
    Black will be best as a first hit on an opponent and high health opponents overall.

    I disagree here. Black works best as a finishing move when the opponent is low on health. The reason is the bonus damage gets higher when the opponent has less health since the difference part is always calculated against your 'max health'.

    Example
    Both characters have 90K health. If you fire Black, you only do 12% damage = 10.8K permanent damage
    Enemy character has 30K health. If you fire black you do 3.6K permanent damage + (90-30)*.18 = 10.8 = 14.4 damage.

    Once the enemy reaches ~15K you will down them.

    KGB

    It is up to 18% of the damage. This means if they are both 90K health once the target hits 73.8K health or 18% below max health black will do max damage. That would be 8856 permanent damage and 13284 permanent damage. If you are waiting for 15k damage you are wasting damage. You would be better off using black earlier than later.

    So your saying it works like this:

    Both characters have 90K health. If you fire Black you do 12% permanent damage (10.8K) and then since his health > target health (current or max?) you do 12% more damage (difference between 90K and 79.2) or another 10.8K for a total of 21.6 damage.

    Enemy Has 70K health (current or max?). If you fire Black you do 12% permanent damage (8.4) and then since his health > target health) do you 18% more (capped at 18% enemy health difference since enemy more than 18% from his max) or another 16.2K (90*.18) for a total of 24.6 damage.

    That certainly makes his Black a lot better since that 18% part gets fixed at 16.2K damage pretty quickly once the target gets more than 18% lower than his max health.

    KGB

    I think his black might be better than i originally thought. I read it as if Evo max health is larger then target's max health he does 18% of his max health as damage. This would be flat damage in this case, since max health doesn't change (right?) This should be boosted by his yellow, since it boosts his max health if he isn't the highest level, giving him like 200k+ health (right?) - 18% of that is something like 40k damage, plus the permanent 9k for like 8 ap...

  • heybub
    heybub Posts: 297 Mover and Shaker

    @dianetics said:
    The way it reads is he deals damage equal to the difference of EVO's and the targets health up to 18% of his total health.
    "he deals additional damage equal to the difference"
    So at 450 if he has 90k health and he casts it on shang chi who has 60k the difference is 30k. He will only do 16k.
    If he casts is on colossus who has 80k he will only do 10k not the 16k.

    Good catch about the difference. But it should still be amplified by his yellow. At 450 he would have 228k health (if I understand his yellow correctly and someone is 450+ levels, 96k +140%). So if target has 60k, the diff is 168k and 18% of that would be a 30k. He would do an additional 12% permanent damage of 7k for a total of 37k damage for 8ap. If target has 80k, the diff would be 148k and 18% of that would be 26k. He would do an additional 12% permanet damage of 9k, bringing the total to 35k damage for 8ap.

    That seems pretty solid damage, plus the huge heath from yellow, makes it seem like he would be tough to beat on defense. Might be too slow to be Meta, but might be solid. If any can run him in a simulator and see how he works in action, we might be able to really see how good he is.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Evo shards are live now.
    I picked my almost level 500 SC and Chavez. Evo is 1/1/0 level 285 and 26700 health.
    In battle Evo gained 10.000 health and Chavez nothing because Chavez is higher level. Evo clicking on him remained level 285.
    I tried to fire yellow on SC but it said this power won't have effect:
    As I suspected this character works best if high leveling him and not the opposite.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,504 Chairperson of the Boards

    I got a blue cover and 500 shards - no idea what to do with this guy and what power to give the shards to.

  • SourCream
    SourCream Posts: 104 Tile Toppler

    450 High Evolutionary + 550 Chasm + 640 Jeffrey

    With 5 yellow covers , start of battle gains for High Evolutinary only about 47% only.

    95,436 + 44,854 = 140,290

    https://streamable.com/7c3tgq

    Stuck at 1 cover ? Bug ? Intended ? Working progress ?

  • SourCream
    SourCream Posts: 104 Tile Toppler

    Also not Chasm related, so let him be.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,504 Chairperson of the Boards

    Well if he is bugged at launch then I have even less chance of understanding him than I did when he was just on paper! Think I will just leave the shards where they are for now.

  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 233 Tile Toppler

    I think I've worked out the maths for Evo's yellow.
    It is the level difference divided by 295 (being 550 - 255) as 255 is the lowest level a 5* starts at.
    In the above example posted by SourCream the difference is 100/295 = 33.9% and 33.9% * 140% = 47.46%, rounded down to 47%.

  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 233 Tile Toppler

    I've tested quite a few different combinations of characters and the calculation in my previous post seems to work.

    If you bring a 4*, the boost is calculated by level difference divided by 300 (370 - 70).
    eg. my evo is lvl 300
    I brought a bottom lvl 70 4*, and boost to their health was 230/300 = 76% (*50% for 1 cover yellow * base health).

    I assume for 4* the boost is maxed at 300/300 ie. if my evo was above lvl 370 there would be no additional boost and the "up to lvl 550" in the description is 5* specific and for a 4* should read "up to lvl 370". I haven't been able to test this, so be good if someone with an evo above lvl 370 could post their results.

    The reason I say this is because 3* and 2* would in theory get boosted by more than 100% compared to their maximum level ranges, but I don't see this happening in my tests.