***** High Evolutionary (Awesome Mix Vol 3) *****

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  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,875 Chairperson of the Boards

    So...maybe he's bugged, or the descriptions are wrong? Mine is going from 170k health to 230k health when the fight starts. I'll try to get a screenshot of the boost happening.

    Also, his black ability is doing WAY more than 10% of the enemy's max health.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,875 Chairperson of the Boards

    Here's a video of the start of a match:

    https://streamable.com/2dr65k

    Maybe someone can do the math and figure out what's going on here. I boosted black hoping to get a couple easy black matches and fire that power, but...well...no such luck.

  • SourCream
    SourCream Posts: 104 Tile Toppler

    @entrailbucket said:
    Here's a video of the start of a match:

    https://streamable.com/2dr65k

    Maybe someone can do the math and figure out what's going on here. I boosted black hoping to get a couple easy black matches and fire that power, but...well...no such luck.

    550 Thanos - 435 Evo = 115
    115 / 295 * 100% = 38%

    You got 38% boost on health and match damage. Boost levels are ignore, but boost health and match damage are not.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,875 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2023

    @SourCream said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Here's a video of the start of a match:

    https://streamable.com/2dr65k

    Maybe someone can do the math and figure out what's going on here. I boosted black hoping to get a couple easy black matches and fire that power, but...well...no such luck.

    550 Thanos - 435 Evo = 115
    115 / 295 * 100% = 38%

    You got 38% boost on health and match damage. Boost levels are ignore, but boost health and match damage are not.

    I'm not sure what this means overall, but in using him, I felt like the bonus mattered, and it was more than I thought it'd be.

  • SourCream
    SourCream Posts: 104 Tile Toppler

    @entrailbucket said:
    So...maybe he's bugged, or > @SourCream said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Here's a video of the start of a match:

    https://streamable.com/2dr65k

    Maybe someone can do the math and figure out what's going on here. I boosted black hoping to get a couple easy black matches and fire that power, but...well...no such luck.

    550 Thanos - 435 Evo = 115
    115 / 295 * 100% = 38%

    You got 38% boost on health and match damage. Boost levels are ignore, but boost health and match damage are not.

    I'm not sure what this means overall, but in using him, I felt like the bonus mattered, and it was more than I thought it'd be.

    For PVE, it's not a meaningful number. 38% match damage, you can get more simply by buying +50% boost with 100 ISO. Colossus gets 126% just for existing. If ability damage is given too, also not meaningful, Emma is 70% just for existing too. Extra health is nice, but do you really need it ? Anyhow, all the extra % is given to Evo only, not your 550s.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,875 Chairperson of the Boards

    @SourCream said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    So...maybe he's bugged, or > @SourCream said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    Here's a video of the start of a match:

    https://streamable.com/2dr65k

    Maybe someone can do the math and figure out what's going on here. I boosted black hoping to get a couple easy black matches and fire that power, but...well...no such luck.

    550 Thanos - 435 Evo = 115
    115 / 295 * 100% = 38%

    You got 38% boost on health and match damage. Boost levels are ignore, but boost health and match damage are not.

    I'm not sure what this means overall, but in using him, I felt like the bonus mattered, and it was more than I thought it'd be.

    For PVE, it's not a meaningful number. 38% match damage, you can get more simply by buying +50% boost with 100 ISO. Colossus gets 126% just for existing. If ability damage is given too, also not meaningful, Emma is 70% just for existing too. Extra health is nice, but do you really need it ? Anyhow, all the extra % is given to Evo only, not your 550s.

    Oh, don't get me wrong -- he is in no way good, and I hope that whole long post made that pretty clear. But he's also not Abigail or Black Widow-level bad.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,875 Chairperson of the Boards

    @dianetics said:
    @entrailbucket He has a mini god boost. How do his natural powers compare against like level heroes?

    He uses 1 entire power slot to push him up or his partners. So does his black hit harder than Elektro?

    As a like level hero where does he land? Would you use him over Gargantos? Do you think he is better than Crystal?

    See...like...I can't answer this now. The boosts have completely ruined my ability to think this way. Based on what everyone else said, and my own reading of his powers, I expected him to be in the "not usable even when boosted," absolute bottom-feeder tier.

    But he was, shockingly...fine. I'd probably not pick him over Crystal or Gargantos when they're boosted, but I don't know if I'll ever have to make that decision. I'd certainly pick him over Crystal or Gargantos when he's boosted and they're not!

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,875 Chairperson of the Boards

    @dianetics said:
    So he is niche at best.

    I will ask it another way then...would ever take him not boosted?
    Crystal is a toon that has value not boosted Gargantos is one that does not.

    I only used him with the boost, but unless I'm missing something huge I can't ever see using him unboosted.

    I think that's what I'm saying, though -- most 5* are the same way. There's, what, like 80 5* now? And there's 10 in the good tier and 10 in the trash tier, and everybody else is meh unless they get +100 levels that week. High Evolutionary is squarely in the meh tier.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,875 Chairperson of the Boards

    @dianetics said:

    @entrailbucket said: High Evolutionary is squarely in the meh tier.

    TBH I think you are overvaluing him. He wont benefit when he is boosted. His fired powers are weird.
    Unless he massively over healths the opposing team his usage will be minimal.

    Honestly from user reporting Fatpin has more value than him.

    Maybe! It certainly wouldn't be the first time, or the last.

    But also: I have Kingpin at like lvl510 or something and after his buff, dude completely wrecks face when he's boosted. So I'm not sure how much I trust those reports, plus my roster is very weird. I'll be trivially stomping on 550 Chasms with 672 Starlord this week (who is also meh unless boosted).

  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 232 Tile Toppler

    So what is happening is the boost % is calculated using his unboosted lvl, and is then applied to his boosted stats.

    The interesting thing about this is that if you are only ever going to use him during a boost week, then you want him underleveled.

    @eb's Evo is level 435 which gives him a 38% boost (115/295 = 38% rounded down)
    That boost is applied to his boosted stats at lvl 525, raising his health from 170k to 234k

    A level 550 Evo only has 206k health

    And if Evo had 5 yellows, the boost% would be 38% * 140% = 53% and his health would be 260k.

    Would be interesting to work out the optimum level for him for boost week. Would need health data for all levels to calculate this, and I can't intuitively say what it would be.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,875 Chairperson of the Boards

    There's something else going on here, too, though.

    I reread his powers, and there's a second part to his black ability that cares about how much more health he has than whatever enemy he's hitting with it. I think that's why I found the damage on it to be... acceptable (it wasn't shockingly good or anything, but it wasn't BAD).

    So I'm not sure if you want him underleveled, in that case. It seems like there's no good way to optimize him, because either his yellow will suck or his black will suck

  • trenchdigger
    trenchdigger Posts: 232 Tile Toppler

    Probably because I am a maths nerd!

  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker

    @KGB said:
    I say this, the 5* version might be meh but the 3* version is an incredible tank in PvP.

    I ran into a few teams with him baby champed (L168 type thing) and he was boosted to 270 in his PvP. When I fought the team his health was boosted into the 80K range because I was using boosted Grocket (mine is 473 boosted). So this 3* had 5* champ health which was way more than his 2 L380 4*s or my boosted Grocket. I just retreated right away rather than attempt to chew that.

    Once he's max champed at 266 when he's boosted he'll have well over 100K health when fighting 5* champs. That's just nuts for a 3* character.

    KGB

    I was thinking the same thing today. That version is gonna be a beast for newer rosters.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Ultraman>>better than robocop.
    The 3* version very well could be the main reason this character will be hugely popular.
    If his increased health is true heal this character could help a lot 4* and 3* players, while the 5* version is just another meh character more.

  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 546 Critical Contributor

    @Bad said:
    Ultraman>>better than robocop.
    The 3* version very well could be the main reason this character will be hugely popular.
    If his increased health is true heal this character could help a lot 4* and 3* players, while the 5* version is just another meh character more.

    I'm curious how a lot of these 3* versions of characters end up being better than their 5*. Usually it's only within tier comparisons but this 3* is literally better than the 5* version any way you slice it.

  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream Posts: 2,017 Chairperson of the Boards

    @SourCream said:
    So far, the general view on Evolution is a bit unjust. Largely due to lack of playing with and understanding. Like Kang or Hit-Monkey, he can be very good if you utilize his skillsets.

    Initially, I narrowed on his starting passive only. Did a few retreats to understand the calculation behind it and find it a bit lackluster when Evo is the highest level and somewhat ok when low level. Now, having the chance to play him a few, I found him very good and interesting.

     In short ... a general summary :
    • Blue passive = self battery, free AP every turn.
    • Yellow ability = stackable and compound on new max number , not base. Healing !
    • Black ability = decent damage, can be significantly better with higher health.
    • Base health = Among the highest tier, with Knull being the highest.

    • Base match damage = Highest tier along with Jane, Chasm, Kang, the "new" 5* mostly.

        550s Evo Electro Magik   VS    550s Colossus Hulk Chasm

      https://streamable.com/rthjgl
      Why Electro ? Yellow battery.
      Why Magik ? Useless.

       550s Evo Electro Magik  VS    550s Colossus Jane Riri

      https://streamable.com/o825wx
      Why Jane ? Free AP and to take advantage of EVO match damage.
      Why Magik ? Useless.

    Keep in mind, it's 2 vs 3. Normal PVP, no Magik and no Colossus negating match damage at 83!%

    Also, my view is from a glasshouse. I have everything and play in a sandbox. So take it for what it's worth, 20 minutes of playtesting or so. Having said that, EVO can be very good and not an useless character.

    Another thing to add is don't base your experience on his feature / boost events. Without getting into the math, Evo has the benefit of low level for extra buff % and the benefit of buffing his boosted stats, instead of normal base. So his numbers are inflated in a good way and not the norm.

    Good stuff! Thank you for sharing.

    I think we have entered a stage where the explanations provided have made it difficult to understand and determine what a character actually does. It would be very helpful if they made an event similar to Welcome to S.H.I.E.L.D. that provided a fully covered character, ideally scaled to a player's roster, so a player could play test the new character and see if they like the character's skillset or not.

  • Zarqa
    Zarqa Posts: 459 Mover and Shaker

    @fight4thedream said:

    Good stuff! Thank you for sharing.

    I think we have entered a stage where the explanations provided have made it difficult to understand and determine what a character actually does. It would be very helpful if they made an event similar to Welcome to S.H.I.E.L.D. that provided a fully covered character, ideally scaled to a player's roster, so a player could play test the new character and see if they like the character's skillset or not.

    I think that’s a great idea. Or you could do three rounds similar to DDQ:

    • 3-star loaner and requires you to use other 3-stars
    • 5-star loaner and requires you to use 4-stars only
    • 5-star loaner and allows you to use anything.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,088 Chairperson of the Boards

    Arcade was such a pain to get a grasp on what he does and do a writeup for that it set my character rankings guide WAY back because I got stuck and didn’t update.

    This guy seems to be the worst offender yet. I have no idea how to rank this guy or even explain what he does. My big picture understanding is:

    • If lower level he boosts himself up a lot and his team a little

    • If highest level his passive yellow does nothing, but it increases how much he can boost friendlies with his active yellow.

    • The bigger the level discrepancy the bigger the boost

    • Despite looking good on paper the boosts are pretty negligible.

    • However the extra damage gets taken off before “true health” is touched, making him health pack friendly.

    • He’s a great battery for a single color if you have an outlet for the AP

    • The higher the level, the more damage he does with black. But he also gets less of a boost from yellow.

    • Since he’s percentage based, boost weeks don’t really help him much.

    Did I get any of that wrong?

    Is that roughly it?

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