*** Ragnarok (Dark Avengers) ***

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Comments

  • I'll present this:

    Whatever criteria the devs used to nerf Loki, ought to be used to consider whether Ragnarok needs a nerf, or to restore Loki.

    For 8 Red AP Ragnarok can change 20 tiles to green, and do damage.

    For a similar amount of Black AP, Loki only changed up to 10 red and yellow tiles to purple (max 20). It was unusual to be able to get the full 20 purple tiles. It might have been powerful at game release because it denied those colors to Iron Man and Thor, which most players relied on.

    In fact, it could be used as a way to deny ragnarok red. although the AI seems to favor his green.
  • Nemek wrote:
    I think the devs know a lot more than we do about how balanced the characters are at maxed level. If anything, THAT'S where the balance should be focused on.

    We're at an interesting point in the lifetime of the game in which very few people have fully maxed out 3 star characters. From their 'I know how things end up 1-2 months from now' view, I suspect Ragnarok is much less of an issue.

    I think I've seen MAYBE one of each of the other 3 star characters at maxed level. But, each time...they've been rather impressive (ok ok, not Loki). Doom does HOW much damage with his strike tiles every single turn? Hood can steal like...6 AP a turn? Magneto can negate how much damage every turn?

    For me, I have a Rag and IM40 competing in the 3 star tourney...and I barely even use Rag's abilities. Do you know how long it takes to kill three characters with 5000+ health using just Thunderclap? A LOT! 25? 30? Can you sit through that many animations for a single match? I use IM40s abilities, since the blue ability does 2000+ damage to all enemies and the red does 3000+ to one (I don't have my IM40 maxed yet, so I don't know the numbers off the top of my head.)


    This ^
  • I've often said that the other 3-stars are good and often underated, however, Rag is still the best overall.

    Doom is scary, but Rags takes reds and can fairly easily clear the board. So in isolated Rag vs Doom matchup, Rag wins.

    High HP/low AP vs. low HP/high AP. Other characters can prove deadly given the right team or circumstance. Rags is reliable and can fit near any team. He's a staple card. This is a team game and there may be better teams that exclude Rag, but that doesn't mean he still can't be the best overall character.
  • I've often said that the other 3-stars are good and often underated, however, Rag is still the best overall.

    Doom is scary, but Rags takes reds and can fairly easily clear the board. So in isolated Rag vs Doom matchup, Rag wins.

    High HP/low AP vs. low HP/high AP. Other characters can prove deadly given the right team or circumstance. Rags is reliable and can fit near any team. He's a staple card. This is a team game and there may be better teams that exclude Rag, but that doesn't mean he still can't be the best overall character.


    I just tried out a level 80 doom with a level 50 im35 and level 50 m.storm. I'll hope you'll allow me a handicap.

    Ragnarok wiped me out, he had 311 HP left. The problem isn't that his thunderclap is powerful or the godlike ability. It's the cascading matches the AI gets. Every time godlike ability was used it was a waterfall of cascading matches. When I use ragnarok I might get matches, or occasionally cascading matches but nothing like the AI. The AI gets multiple 4 and 5 of a kind matches, getting critical tiles. It really smacks hard.

    I think the problem is less Ragnarok, and more how the developers deal with a stupid AI. They appear to increase difficulty by increasing the probability of getting a match for the AI.
  • I think Rag needs a third cover so he can be levelled up even further:

    Black passive - Neener Neener
    When controlled by AI, an animation of Ragnarok appears every N turns, with thumb on nose, waggling fingers and accompanied by a raspberry sound.

    Level 1 N=5
    Level 2 N=4
    Level 3 N=3
    Level 4 N=2
    Level 5 N=1
  • Dear Devs,

    Make individual Rag covers available for purchase. You will make a boatload of money. I will pay 2000 HP for a guaranteed red cover.
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    Dear Devs,
    Make individual Rag covers available for purchase. You will make a boatload of money. I will pay 2000 HP for a guaranteed red cover.

    Hate to say it, but I might as well.

    Bugpop wrote:
    I think the problem is less Ragnarok, and more how the developers deal with a stupid AI. They appear to increase difficulty by increasing the probability of getting a match for the AI.

    No, this is flat out untrue. It is absolutely random (except for streak breakers that prevent too many of the same color from dropping at once, etc).
  • Bugpop wrote:
    They appear to increase difficulty by increasing the probability of getting a match for the AI.
    Nope.
  • Humphrey wrote:
    Bugpop wrote:
    They appear to increase difficulty by increasing the probability of getting a match for the AI.
    Nope.

    Selective bias ftw
  • DumDumDugn wrote:
    Humphrey wrote:
    Bugpop wrote:
    They appear to increase difficulty by increasing the probability of getting a match for the AI.
    Nope.

    Selective bias ftw

    Jeez, I don't really want to commit to proving it. I'm not specifically against nerfing Ragnarok, but I'm not certain that he needs to be nerfed. When I am up against a level 115 Ragnarok, 141 g.widow, and 141 Spider Man. I take out G.Widow first, then Spider Man.

    It's not because of Ragnarok's hit points, it's because he's the easiest to control. If somehow he doesn't use his Thunderclap when he gets red AP, It's easy to read it's going to G.Widow. If He doesn't use Godlike Ability, it's clear its going to Sniper Rifle. I'd rather deal with 3 Godlike Ability's than 1 sniper rifle.

    I like using the opponent's spider man to leech off his webs.

    While it may be tedious, bringing down Ragnarok isn't hard. I just hit 1st at 1100 points in the 3* tournament, just now. My lineup is 90 Spider Man, 80 Hood, and 91 Magneto. Hood and Magneto started at 75 for this tournament.
  • Bugpop wrote:
    If somehow he doesn't use his Thunderclap when he gets red AP, It's easy to read it's going to G.Widow. If He doesn't use Godlike Ability, it's clear its going to Sniper Rifle. I'd rather deal with 3 Godlike Ability's than 1 sniper rifle.

    I was under the impression the AI never hoarded points to use a more expensive skill (I.e. that sniper rifle would never get used in that scenario unless the AI got a ton of green all in one turn. Am I mistaken?
  • Misguided wrote:
    Am I mistaken?

    No, you're Misguided. icon_e_biggrin.gif

    I've seen the AI hold AP for higher point abilities. I've also seen it hold AP for no apparent reason whatsoever. I haven't figured the algorithm out yet. I also wouldn't be surprised if they're slightly tweaking this over time.
  • Zathrus wrote:
    Misguided wrote:
    Am I mistaken?

    No, you're Misguided. icon_e_biggrin.gif

    I've seen the AI hold AP for higher point abilities. I've also seen it hold AP for no apparent reason whatsoever. I haven't figured the algorithm out yet. I also wouldn't be surprised if they're slightly tweaking this over time.


    It will sometimes collect purple for no apparent reason.
  • My opinion. Just leave what it is. This is superhero game after all. Some character may look powerful or weaker. That's where strategic thinking and team combination came in. How about spider classic? Your whole cant actually do anything with his blue ability. Just boost some under-use characters and introduce more superheroes. More choices for teaming.
  • I pro nerfing Ragnarok (and low cost damage skill actually but that is different thread). His ability just creates too many green tiles too quickly. Grey widow makes 6 tiles for 11 ap. sure you can place them anywhere and get 2-4 critical tiles rather easy. But ragnarok can make 25 green tiles for 10 ap. that also makes that can make 2-4 critical tiles easily, but deals 3000 damage at the same time.

    He simply better at board control and damage than any other hero by a wide margin. His ability costing 3ap and only making 4 green tiles would put him still in the top tier, but make him not overpowered.
  • Shwqa wrote:
    I pro nerfing Ragnarok (and low cost damage skill actually but that is different thread). His ability just creates too many green tiles too quickly. Grey widow makes 6 tiles for 11 ap. sure you can place them anywhere and get 2-4 critical tiles rather easy. But ragnarok can make 25 green tiles for 10 ap. that also makes that can make 2-4 critical tiles easily, but deals 3000 damage at the same time.

    He simply better at board control and damage than any other hero by a wide margin. His ability costing 3ap and only making 4 green tiles would put him still in the top tier, but make him not overpowered.
    Wait and see the incredible hulk arrival.... People will scream for nerfing even more
  • edited April 2015
    [anchor=ragnarok3]Ragnarok (Dark Avengers Thor)[/anchor] icon_ragnarok.png
    3 Star Rarity (Rare) Discussion link. Wiki link.
    At Max Level: HP: 10710 Tile damage: 13/70/61/11/79/12/3.0
      Godlike Power - Green 14 greentile.png
      Ragnarok slams his hammer down, releasing a wave of electricity that scars the battlefield. Deals 203 damage to all enemies and 137 to allies. Destroys a random column. Does not generate AP.
        Level 2: Deals 266 damage to enemies and 137 to allies. Level 3: Deals 331 damage to enemies and 137 to allies. Level 4: Deals 461 damage to enemies and 137 to allies. Level 5: Deals 719 damage to enemies and 137 to allies.
      MAX Level 5: Deals 2276 damage to all enemies and 435 to allies.
        Thunderclap - Red 6 redtile.png
        Ragnarok gathers dark clouds and calls down a bolt of lightning. Adds 2 Blue tiles to the board, then deals 71 damage.
          Level 2: Convert 3 tiles. Level 3: Dealing 128 damage. Level 4: Convert 4 tiles. Level 5: Dealing 185 damage.
        Max Level: 1175 damage
          Lightning Rod - Blue 8 bluetile.png
          Ragnarok hurls his hammer into the thunderclouds, where it absorbs the power of the storm. Creates 1 Green Charged tile. Catching the hammer charges the cyborg with electricity, giving him a burst of 312 health.
            Level 2: Creates 1 Charged tile. Ragnarok heals 371 health. Level 3: Creates 2 Charged tiles. Ragnarok heals 371 health. Level 4: Creates 2 Charged tiles. Ragnarok heals 480 health. Level 5: Creates 3 Charged tiles. Ragnarok heals 552 health.
          MAX Level 5: Creates 3 Charged tiles. Ragnarok heals 1754 health.

          v3.0
            Godlike Power - Green 10 greentile.png
            Ragnarok exhibits his godlike power, cleaving the battlefield in two. Destroys the two center columns of tiles so completely they don’t generate AP.
              Level 2: Costs 1 AP less. Level 3: Costs 1 AP less. Level 4: Costs 1 AP less. Level 5: Costs 1 AP less.
              Thunderclap - Red 6 redtile.png
              Ragnarok calls upon the storm, dealing 71 damage to the current target and changing 2 tiles of any color to Green.
                Level 2: Convert 3 tiles. Level 3: Dealing 128 damage. Level 4: Convert 4 tiles. Level 5: Dealing 185 damage.
              Max Level: 1175 damage

              v2.0
              (stat block added by moderator Nonce Equitaur)

              [anchor=ragnarok3]Ragnarok (Dark Avengers Thor)[/anchor]
              3 Star Rarity (Rare) Wiki link.
              At Max Level: HP: 7111 Tile damage: 10/51/10/11/51/11

              v2.0
                Godlike Power - Green 10 AP
                Ragnarok exhibits his godlike power, cleaving the battlefield in two. Destroys the two center columns of tiles so completely they don’t generate AP.
                Level Upgrades
                  Level 2: Costs 1 AP less. Level 3: Costs 1 AP less. Level 4: Costs 1 AP less. Level 5: Costs 1 AP less.
                  Thunderclap - Red 6 AP
                  Ragnarok calls upon the storm, dealing 71 damage to the current target and changing 2 tiles of any color to Green.
                  Level Upgrades
                    Level 2: Convert 3 tiles. Level 3: Dealing 128 damage. Level 4: Convert 4 tiles. Level 5: Dealing 185 damage.
                  Max Level: 633 damage

                  v1.0
                    Godlike Power - Green 10 AP
                    Ragnarok exhibits his godlike power, cleaving the battlefield in two. Destroys the two center columns of tiles so completely they don’t generate AP.
                    Level Upgrades
                      Level 2: Costs 1 AP less. Level 3: Costs 1 AP less. Level 4: Costs 1 AP less. Level 5: Costs 1 AP less.
                      Thunderclap - Red 6 AP
                      Ragnarok calls upon the storm, dealing 118 damage to the current target and changing 5 tiles of any color to Green.
                      Level Upgrades
                        Level 2: Costs 1 AP less. Level 3: Costs 1 AP less. Level 4: Costs 1 AP less. Level 5: Costs 1 AP less.
                      Max Level: 754 damage



                      I know this may piss people off, but I almost wish they'd give Ragnarok a third skill.
                    • He's only strong in 2 colors, unlike every other character. So it's unlikely he's ever going to get a 3rd skill.
                    • His 3rd skill will be another green one. Costs 2 green AP, deals 500 damage and places 5 red tiles on the board. Wombo combo.
                    • It's one of the only balancing factors that will make sure he eventually drops out of the meta once everyone is trucking around with teams at 100-120+.

                      He's fine.

                      Also, I really wouldn't be surprised to see at least one more Thor variant at 3-star rarity. Because movies.
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