*** Ragnarok (Dark Avengers) ***

xKOBALTx

Ben Grimm wrote:

Thugpatrol wrote:

He's the only two power character that got a total redesign instead of just having a third power added, and not only is the new power junk but the redo of his green is terrible. A lame CtS with friendly team damage? Pass. His red feeding blue might give him some gimmick PvE value, but that's about it.

It's a shame. I actually liked the old Rags. A good third power, color, and the ability to hit 166 like all the other cool kids could have made him a nicely usable character. Instead, total dumpster fire. Poor Rags. Poor, poor Rags. Can't even kick it.

Honestly, if they had kept the green power the same, and added a blue power that, for 30 AP, cause 1 point of self damage, I'd like the changes more. I still think I'll use him in LRs, but he's actually worse in those than he used to be.

One thousand times this. The recipe was so simple in my mind:
1 cup of Leave Red Alone
1 cup of Leave Green Alone
A dash of your favorite third color seasoning (possibly Blue - taste irrelevant)
Mix together to sort out color levels
Add ISO
Bake
Voilà! A functioning level-maxed Ragnarok. Bon appétit.

Loki and Doom also had moves that people liked (and they basically left alone) and they added an even better ability to both. Even if you think that Rags was more powerful than those two and would be too strong with a great third ability added, how bad would it have been to just add a mediocre ability, fix his color strengths and allow him 26 more levels?

Phaserhawk

gamar wrote:

I really wanted to like the new Rags. I think a character that has an inexpensive good ability that builds to a subpar expensive one, while tanking good colors and healing himself, would be really interesting. But his blue is freaking terrible. YOU BLEW IT

I think they wanted to nerf the secret winfinite combo of Rags/Storm/Loki. That team once it got going never gave up it's turn.

Btw, how is everyone building Rags? I'm opting 3 5 5

If you opt for this build it's as close to his old build as you can get

Old green cost 6, do damage, split the middle and you hope for a cascade

New blue, costs 8, fake heal, create three green, pray you can get a cascade

In terms of Rags Green, it's probably what L.Thor's green should be in terms of power, but I don't want LThor to get nerfed, he does, however, make for a very annoying character to get rid of, the problem is he does no damage.

If Rags is paired with Daken in PvE they can be quite deadly as red quickly turns into Chemical Reactions to the face.

Personall the best combo I see with him is with Dr. Doom. Get red to make blue to make black to then kill someone with black

To me the green is really the new skill, his old green became blue except worse. I know he can actually be part of a combo, it's just that all the pieces aren't there yet.

I'll just turn Rags into a spammer of sorts and forget his green.

SolidQ

I hope they rework him again soon as possible.
We need red convert green again. Reduce Green ap cost, and rework blue.

P.s old Lr 5 villain.
Hood - fine.
Magneto (rework) - fine
Loki (3rd skill and some rework ) - fine
Doom ( 3rd skil and some rework) - fine
Ragnarok - WTFFFF?

simonsez

Phaserhawk wrote:

Personall the best combo I see with him is with Dr. Doom. Get red to make blue to make black to then kill someone with black

If you're going to be using Doom's blue, why go 5 blue for Rags?

Phaserhawk

simonsez wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Personall the best combo I see with him is with Dr. Doom. Get red to make blue to make black to then kill someone with black

If you're going to be using Doom's blue, why go 5 blue for Rags?

you wouldn't, I was speaking outside of builds there, I did not make that clear. I was only refering to where I see him have any value currently, essentially max red and forget the rest.

Unknown

It's pretty funny that they decided to go ahead and make this 14 green ability that does AoE damage and just pretend like we've never heard of LThor

Phaserhawk

In the end its about the charged tiles. They underestimated their power with 4hor, and I think now are overestimating them with her nerf and Rags only generating 3. I would have liked to have seen 4hor's blue create 7-8 and Rags create 5-6. I think that would be about right,

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

In the end its about the charged tiles. They underestimated their power with 4hor, and I think now are overestimating them with her nerf and Rags only generating 3. I would have liked to have seen 4hor's blue create 7-8 and Rags create 5-6. I think that would be about right,

Would that even be good? Barring pre-nerf 4hor where you just obliterate a team, I think I'd RATHER make 4 charge tiles where if I don't immediately match them that means the AI likely can't either. With 6-8 the chances of getting screwed seem nearer to the chance that I'll benefit

simonsez

gamar wrote:

Would that even be good? Barring pre-nerf 4hor where you just obliterate a team, I think I'd RATHER make 4 charge tiles where if I don't immediately match them that means the AI likely can't either. With 6-8 the chances of getting screwed seem nearer to the chance that I'll benefit

When GT first was announced, I was leery of charged tiles as well. I should go and delete the posts where I was saying 5 blue covers was a bad idea. But since the AI makes no special effort to match them, and you have first crack at making a match after you charge them, on average, it's overwhelming a benefit for the player.

Unknown

Ragnarok's Green and Red used to obliterate players in PVE, and were generally considered underpriced for what they did. I feel like D3 set out to make him purposefully bad because we face him so much in PVE. With his HP class, I'd consider him 'balanced' in that he's a tank like Hulk, but has abilities that have drawbacks. Definitely think they're overvaluing charged tiles now.

Self damage is generally a pain to deal with, so he's probably best 3/5/5. Max his accelerants, have someone else use the green and possibly blue.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

Ragnarok's Green and Red used to obliterate players in PVE, and were generally considered underpriced for what they did. I feel like D3 set out to make him purposefully bad because we face him so much in PVE. With his HP class, I'd consider him 'balanced' in that he's a tank like Hulk, but has abilities that have drawbacks. Definitely think they're overvaluing charged tiles now.

Self damage is generally a pain to deal with, so he's probably best 3/5/5. Max his accelerants, have someone else use the green and possibly blue.

You're adorable.

Meanwhile scaled juggernaut, ares and daken are eating my **** for breakfast every pve, Ares and Juggs over 20k health

NorthernPolarity

daibar wrote:

Ragnarok's Green and Red used to obliterate players in PVE, and were generally considered underpriced for what they did. I feel like D3 set out to make him purposefully bad because we face him so much in PVE. With his HP class, I'd consider him 'balanced' in that he's a tank like Hulk, but has abilities that have drawbacks. Definitely think they're overvaluing charged tiles now.

Self damage is generally a pain to deal with, so he's probably best 3/5/5. Max his accelerants, have someone else use the green and possibly blue.

I would probably agree with 3/5/5 for max rosters, and 5/5/3 for transitioners. Honestly as long as the build includes 5 red, it doesn't matter for high level players because of how worthless blue and green are. Might as well max the one thats more likely to get used (even though green is more powerful, 14AP.... ugh.).

Marc_Spector

I have to wonder if the (ridiculous) new 14AP cost to Godlike Power was designed to be of equal cost to Call The Storm, so that the A.I. will do an unpredictable dice roll as to which one to use when Rags+Thor are grouped on defense. Rag's + Thor's would be a great CTS accelerant.

(I'm not in any way trying to advocate for the incredibly underwhelming changes done to a character I was really looking forward to 166'ing -- I was just trying to think about the reasoning behind such an unjustified cost to that one ability.)

Unknown

Marc Spector wrote:

(I'm not in any way trying to advocate for the incredibly underwhelming changes done to a character I was really looking forward to 166'ing -- I was just trying to think about the reasoning behind such an unjustified cost to that one ability.)

The reason is that the guy who designed/costed She-Hulk, Doc Ock, and Beast was assigned Ragnarok instead of the guy who designed/costed LThor, Panther and Deadpool

orbitalint

gamar wrote:

The reason is that the guy who designed/costed She-Hulk, Doc Ock, and Beast was assigned Ragnarok instead of the guy who designed/costed LThor, Panther and Deadpool

Agreed, 1000%. They obviously have at least one character designer that gets it in terms of power and balance. blade and cyc are the two recent releases that i get their role and they do it pretty well when they do it.

and then there is this guy who doesn't seem to ever give a second thought to actual use and make inferior copies of powers with no reason to ever choose the copy over original.

xKOBALTx

Kind of an aside to most of the revamp talk, but does anybody else find the ability art switch as obnoxious as I do? Thunderclap in particular is annoying me for two reasons:

1) I'm so used to this animation being used for Godlike. That's kind of picky, but I just can't stand seeing one thing and expecting something else. Beyond that though . . .
2) It's also driving me nuts because the art covers most of the board and I can't see what is going on behind it. When it was the art for Godlike it wasn't as big of a deal because you knew he was blowing out the two middle columns and the subsequent matches/cascades resolved after the animation finished. On Thunderclap I can't see where most of the blue tiles are put down and many that match resolve behind the animation.

Am I just too OCD or crazy here in thinking that they need to fix this?

john1620b

xKOBALTx wrote:

Kind of an aside to most of the revamp talk, but does anybody else find the ability art switch as obnoxious as I do? Thunderclap in particular is annoying me for two reasons:

1) I'm so used to this animation being used for Godlike. That's kind of picky, but I just can't stand seeing one thing and expecting something else. Beyond that though . . .
2) It's also driving me nuts because the art covers most of the board and I can't see what is going on behind it. When it was the art for Godlike it wasn't as big of a deal because you knew he was blowing out the two middle columns and the subsequent matches/cascades resolved after the animation finished. On Thunderclap I can't see where most of the blue tiles are put down and many that match resolve behind the animation.

Am I just too OCD or crazy here in thinking that they need to fix this?

No, you're not crazy -- this bothers me a lot too, for exactly these reasons.

ClydeFrog76

It's been a while since I've taken advantage of a buy-back offer on a tweaked character, how long do they usually last?

I know Rags is going to be essential in the next PVE, will the commencement of that event be time-up, or will we get a chance to play with him there and then cash-in?

orbitalint

ClydeFrog76 wrote:

It's been a while since I've taken advantage of a buy-back offer on a tweaked character, how long do they usually last?

I know Rags is going to be essential in the next PVE, will the commencement of that event be time-up, or will we get a chance to play with him there and then cash-in?

Don't quote me but 2-3 weeks from what I remember. Maybe a lil longer but not much.

john1620b

ClydeFrog76 wrote:

It's been a while since I've taken advantage of a buy-back offer on a tweaked character, how long do they usually last?

I know Rags is going to be essential in the next PVE, will the commencement of that event be time-up, or will we get a chance to play with him there and then cash-in?

The increased sale price on Sentry/Hood lasted a loooong time. I don't know how long exactly, but I remember thinking they forget to switch it off, because it was weeks and weeks.

There's no guarantee that will happen for Ragnarok though. It ends whenever D3 wants it to.