*** Ragnarok (Dark Avengers) ***

Unknown

wymtime wrote:

Something else to consider is the fact that Rags is a consistan villian in PVE. Because of this he will consistantly scale to higher and higher levels. By giving him a poorer green it makes him easier to deal with. Think of Khan at level 300 that green would stupid broken. Rags will have goons feeding him green fo 14 AP he will do damage, but he will not make you throw your phone. For players he will be 3,5,5 and he will feed someone else green while taking for others. For the AI he will be a pain caus damage and probably kill himself sometimes, but he will not be broken

Simply not the case. If you're playing the current pve and your scaling is significant you can see what a lvl300 rags can do. Also so great having him be paired with ares with his charged tiles. Not annoying at all.

Unknown

Bagnarok (Dark Avengers Thor)

Clownlike Power - Green 14
Bagnarok slams his toy hammer down, releasing a wave of nothingness. Everybody almost died laughing. Deals 203 damage to all enemies and 137 to allies. Destroys a random column. Does not generate AP.

Infrared

ark123 wrote:

Simply not the case. If you're playing the current pve and your scaling is significant you can see what a lvl300 rags can do. Also so great having him be paired with ares with his charged tiles. Not annoying at all.

On the other hand, there's a good chance Ragnarok will save up to use his instead of Ares, and his instead of Daken.

wymtime

ark123 wrote:

Marc Spector wrote:

I'm still not sold on the value of his new blue @ 5 covers -- dropping green to 3 cuts its damage by half, but raising blue from 3->5 adds one more charged tile and a third more fake-healing.

As mentioned above, its not like blue covers are falling from the sky right now -- but I'm hoping by the time my Rags gets to 5/5/3 that the blue may have been slightly improved to add an extra charge tile or two @ max covers.

I'm going 355. The only time I see myself using rag is with xforce to form a loop. Also if any of his skills are ever revised, it's going to be the blue for more charged tiles.

His green is garbage imo

I don't think they are going to give him more charged tiles unless they are on red. His blue is almost broken with XForce. 4 charged green tile to SS on green will let you Xforce possible 3 times in a row. That is crazy damage.

KrazyKeylime

i'd rather have him with just 2 abilities, they messed him up pretty bad. sold him for 700 hp and i don't even care.

Unknown

Infrared wrote:

ark123 wrote:

Simply not the case. If you're playing the current pve and your scaling is significant you can see what a lvl300 rags can do. Also so great having him be paired with ares with his charged tiles. Not annoying at all.

On the other hand, there's a good chance Ragnarok will save up to use his instead of Ares, and his instead of Daken.

"Good chance"? my ares seems to use any green it gets over 6 instantly on onslaught, yours waits until 14?

simonsez

Infrared wrote:

On the other hand, there's a good chance Ragnarok will save up to use his instead of Ares, and his instead of Daken.

I'll tell you how it works: when the AI gets 5+ green, you put your XF in front so you can heal him after the Onslaught; but it doesn't happen. Then 3 moves later when you have no more XF matches on the board, your support character steps in front and eats the Onslaught.

konannfriends

is this all that suprising, this is exactly how it should be. i will say rags green problem isnt his damage but the fact that its deals damage to the team and cost 14ap

rags has huge pool of health where khamala is fragile, not super fragile but almost. there fore she should deal more damage or atleast get the same amount of damage for less ap, in th8is case she does both(but thats beside the point)

if KK green did the same amount of damage as rags and still costed 12 ap. i think rags would be more desirable.

i will say though, rags green is a triple whammy. Low damage, high ap cost,team damage. i think it should have costed 12 also then it would be half as bad

Unknown

That's all fine Konan but then how you you explain the Thor vs Rags comparison? Rags is just suppose to be worse? That's a pretty strange way to balance a guy and then expect us to use him.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

That's all fine Konan but then how you you explain the Thor vs Rags comparison? Rags is just suppose to be worse? That's a pretty strange way to balance a guy and then expect us to use him.

Yes. Rags green is supposed to be worse. He makes charged tiles and produces blue from red, so you can't compare them directly. You use them for different things. You can't expect all abilities at their ap costs to be equally as powerful, because that would ignore what part the character plays.

You can compare 2* thor and 3* thor abilities directly. 3* thor is better - they play the same part but one is just better.

Infrared

ark123 wrote:

my ares seems to use any green it gets over 6 instantly on onslaught, yours waits until 14?

I'll admit that there's a higher chance of Ares using his green instead of Rags. Actually this new change makes it more likely than before, since previously if the AI ever got 6 it would always choose Rags immediately because 6 > 5. But now it could choose Ares at any turn before getting to 14. So in a way, this Ragnarok rebalance is an Ares buff.

Unknown

Oh god! Not rags please!
He was my favorite when I started the game then he got nerfed then I still casually used him after that and I was hoping that he would get the same treatment as the other two did but instead he got renerfed again. Argh!!
IMO there was no need to rework him all he needed was an extra ability, a low ap ability that did damage to the whole enemy team even 1 k damage for 7 ap would of been great. Or a passive that turned tiles green and red after an enemy uses an ability. His low ap was what mad him fun.

Phaserhawk

After a year of preaching from NP and Phantron, they are begining to see that hit points matter, thus Rags green can be worse, because he will be around longer than KK to use his skill. In 4* land, I would look to Nick Fury or Devil Dino to see what balance is probably going to be.

I think in the very near future we are going to see lower damaging high health tanks, and higher damaging low health fighters. My only issue with Rags is when you compare him to his clone, the green truly pale in comparison.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

After a year of preaching from NP and Phantron, they are begining to see that hit points matter, thus Rags green can be worse, because he will be around longer than KK to use his skill. In 4* land, I would look to Nick Fury or Devil Dino to see what balance is probably going to be.

I think in the very near future we are going to see lower damaging high health tanks, and higher damaging low health fighters. My only issue with Rags is when you compare him to his clone, the green truly pale in comparison.

The problem with doing this halfway through the game is that new characters will have to meet the standards of characters like 3* Thor and Black Panther. In this case, the comparison to Thor is very appropriate, because both of them are high HP characters with active red and big green aoe nukes. If you're choosing characters out of a line-up and you want a guy with a big HP pool and a big green aoe power, there is just no reason to take Rag over Thor. Giving him a different color scheme helps, but since his blue is almost not a power at all that doesn't really pan out. If his blue had been relevant he would have had a place at the table. Since he doesn't, there's no reason to take him outside of a healthy buff when Thor is available.

So it's all well and good to say that tanks should do less damage, but the history of the game suggests that that's just not quite a rule. If new characters are going to establish that as a rule, they're going to have to be more unique than Rag.

GrumpySmurf1002

I couldn't sell him fast enough this morning. I held the rewards from the other events so I'll rebuild him eventually, but 1125HP for a guy I'll never use unless featured seems like a good deal to me.

I found myself using Thor's red over his (which was actually damage/cost inefficient), just because yellow > blue. If I had Fury usable maybe that would've been different. Even when I had enough blue to cast Lightning Rod, I often forgot about it because some health and one charged tile that was rarely matchable was a waste of time. And of course, his green is laughable.

He's not quite Beast, but he ain't far behind now.

konannfriends

Moon 17 wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

After a year of preaching from NP and Phantron, they are begining to see that hit points matter, thus Rags green can be worse, because he will be around longer than KK to use his skill. In 4* land, I would look to Nick Fury or Devil Dino to see what balance is probably going to be.

I think in the very near future we are going to see lower damaging high health tanks, and higher damaging low health fighters. My only issue with Rags is when you compare him to his clone, the green truly pale in comparison.

The problem with doing this halfway through the game is that new characters will have to meet the standards of characters like 3* Thor and Black Panther. In this case, the comparison to Thor is very appropriate, because both of them are high HP characters with active red and big green aoe nukes. If you're choosing characters out of a line-up and you want a guy with a big HP pool and a big green aoe power, there is just no reason to take Rag over Thor. Giving him a different color scheme helps, but since his blue is almost not a power at all that doesn't really pan out. If his blue had been relevant he would have had a place at the table. Since he doesn't, there's no reason to take him outside of a healthy buff when Thor is available.

So it's all well and good to say that tanks should do less damage, but the history of the game suggests that that's just not quite a rule. If new characters are going to establish that as a rule, they're going to have to be more unique than Rag.

i mean honstly thor is about the only op in 3* land anymore. IMO i think he is due for a nerf. black panther is good and a pain to face because he will go for black matches. but ROP does about 3k to everyone and gives the oponent 5ap in ther strongest color, plus he cant feed his black like thor can feed his green. In my opinion thor should have never had a power that could feed his green and do 2k damage. plus the fact that his red does 1k for every 8ap and feeda yellow a tiny bit. He is purely overpowered in everyway.
He has High health
High Damage Aoe
Cheap ap powera power that deals considerable damage and feeds another

so its not that rags sucks its just that thor is so god damn good.

i definitely think that thors aoe should cost 16 ap and his yellow should make 1 less green(for kicks)

if khamala khan had 10k health wed all be screaning op. but the devsx finally created a good character that is balanced

Pylgrim

ark123 wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

That's all fine Konan but then how you you explain the Thor vs Rags comparison? Rags is just suppose to be worse? That's a pretty strange way to balance a guy and then expect us to use him.

Yes. Rags green is supposed to be worse. He makes charged tiles and produces blue from red, so you can't compare them directly. You use them for different things. You can't expect all abilities at their ap costs to be equally as powerful, because that would ignore what part the character plays.

You can compare 2* thor and 3* thor abilities directly. 3* thor is better - they play the same part but one is just better.

Rags is 3*, though. I believe it's not too high entitlement to expect that two characters that are equally as hard to get/pay for/level up are similar in power. Sure, there are a lot of sucky 3*s but their abilities are so different that it's hard to make a direct comparison. In Rags =/= Thor case their are similar enough that is hard not to see one as strictly better and it makes more baffling the absence of balance. Like you'd imagine that if they went "ok let's have both Rags and Thor have a 14 green AoE ability. Let's make Rags deal 30% less damage and..." they would end that sentence adding a bonus to compensate not an additional drawback.

Pylgrim

konannfriends wrote:

Moon 17 wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

After a year of preaching from NP and Phantron, they are begining to see that hit points matter, thus Rags green can be worse, because he will be around longer than KK to use his skill. In 4* land, I would look to Nick Fury or Devil Dino to see what balance is probably going to be.

I think in the very near future we are going to see lower damaging high health tanks, and higher damaging low health fighters. My only issue with Rags is when you compare him to his clone, the green truly pale in comparison.

The problem with doing this halfway through the game is that new characters will have to meet the standards of characters like 3* Thor and Black Panther. In this case, the comparison to Thor is very appropriate, because both of them are high HP characters with active red and big green aoe nukes. If you're choosing characters out of a line-up and you want a guy with a big HP pool and a big green aoe power, there is just no reason to take Rag over Thor. Giving him a different color scheme helps, but since his blue is almost not a power at all that doesn't really pan out. If his blue had been relevant he would have had a place at the table. Since he doesn't, there's no reason to take him outside of a healthy buff when Thor is available.

So it's all well and good to say that tanks should do less damage, but the history of the game suggests that that's just not quite a rule. If new characters are going to establish that as a rule, they're going to have to be more unique than Rag.

i mean honstly thor is about the only op in 3* land anymore. IMO i think he is due for a nerf. black panther is good and a pain to face because he will go for black matches. but ROP does about 3k to everyone and gives the oponent 5ap in ther strongest color, plus he cant feed his black like thor can feed his green. In my opinion thor should have never had a power that could feed his green and do 2k damage. plus the fact that his red does 1k for every 8ap and feeda yellow a tiny bit. He is purely overpowered in everyway.
He has High health
High Damage Aoe
Cheap ap powera power that deals considerable damage and feeds another

so its not that rags sucks its just that thor is so god damn good.

i definitely think that thors aoe should cost 16 ap and his yellow should make 1 less green(for kicks)

if khamala khan had 10k health wed all be screaning op. but the devsx finally created a good character that is balanced

Yep. let's nerf Thor! And once he's nerfed, someone else will be the top character, so that will have to be nerfed and so on! Let us not stop until all characters have been "balanced" to have abilities that cost 30 AP to deal 100 damage, transform a random tile into a 10-turn countdown that creates a strength 3 strike tile, or randomly transform one basic tile of a random colour into another random colour.

Unknown

Pylgrim wrote:

Yep. let's nerf Thor! And once he's nerfed, someone else will be the top character, so that will have to be nerfed and so on! Let us not stop until all characters have been "balanced" to have abilities that cost 30 AP to deal 100 damage, transform a random tile into a 10-turn countdown that creates a strength 3 strike tile, or randomly transform one basic tile of a random colour into another random colour.

Hyperbole much? I don't want them to nerf people just because they can or someone is more powerful than someone else. I do want them to recognize when a character is so far off scale that play becomes stale because everyone would be foolish not to use that character and take action appropriately to make sure the meta changes at a healthy rate, preventing stagnation. This is tricky in a game like this because the early adopters will rush into the next big thing and the next wave works hard to get there as soon as they can but will perpetually be left in the dust if the meta shifts before they are even given a chance to get their turn.

3* Thor is not meta breaking, therefore he does not need to be fiddled with. He is good enough to make us never want to use Ragnarok, but not so good as to never want to use ~anyone else~

Pylgrim

Cryptobrancus wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Yep. let's nerf Thor! And once he's nerfed, someone else will be the top character, so that will have to be nerfed and so on! Let us not stop until all characters have been "balanced" to have abilities that cost 30 AP to deal 100 damage, transform a random tile into a 10-turn countdown that creates a strength 3 strike tile, or randomly transform one basic tile of a random colour into another random colour.

Hyperbole much? I don't want them to nerf people just because they can or someone is more powerful than someone else. I do want them to recognize when a character is so far off scale that play becomes stale because everyone would be foolish not to use that character and take action appropriately to make sure the meta changes at a healthy rate, preventing stagnation. This is tricky in a game like this because the early adopters will rush into the next big thing and the next wave works hard to get there as soon as they can but will perpetually be left in the dust if the meta shifts before they are even given a chance to get their turn.

3* Thor is not meta breaking, therefore he does not need to be fiddled with. He is good enough to make us never want to use Ragnarok, but not so good as to never want to use ~anyone else~

Completely agree. The person I was answering to was actually advocating for a Thor's nerf. Hyperbole was merited.