672 Juggernaut has 600,000+ HP and does 250k or something on a headbutt.
I have 6 672s this week, all usable, and I'm running Juggernaut.
Yeah - there you go. See at my level Juggs probably is only coming in early 300k health wise and it is manageable but I would definitely not fight a monster one!
I misspoke a bit when I said "absolute endgame", admittedly.
For the majority of players, getting any 550s is about all they could ever hope for from the game. Most have and had, I suspect, zero expectation that such a goal was in reach or achievable in a way that their personal spending or playing would get them there.
So if players who were playing progression/moderately good placement in PVE and PVP get their hands on 550s, what more do they reasonably expect? To build up any character except these 1-5s to 550 is probably at least a year of careful targeting, hoarding, etc. A very long game view that many players have no interest in because they enjoy opening, playing more casually etc. A level of commitment that is an order of magnitude beyond "spending $20 and grinding PVP matches".
The endgame is....whatever you define it as, really, dependent on your own level of interest and commitment. At one point I had every character champed (before quitting) and that is a very respectable Endgame state for a player.
The only endgame state that the game defines that you might possibly point to is consistently getting a few extra covers or a bit more digital currency from higher placement, and the barrier between you and that goal is, once you have committed to progression play and grinding beyond that, the already existing players who also have 550 rosters and how much they care/how hard they play. And once you have some 550s, the additional utility of more 550s is present but significantly harder to measure and feel than the initial set of 550s.
So for a player who say was T50-100ing events for years, and not in a high end alliance, and not engaged in PVP checking/hopping/spending tons of time and HP, a set of 550s is a very respectable endgame state.
There is no such thing as an unbeatable team, as we all know, partly because of the elsewhere-discussed stupid AI, so that is not the goal for anyone because it cannot exist.
550 1* are absolutely legit at 672, I have no idea what those others are even talking about. I ran Venom for an entire event awhile ago, and I've run Yelena as well.
There are very few 550s usable at base level, so the fact that 550 Juggernaut isn't usable is less an indictment of him than it is of m'Thor etc.
The endgame is....whatever you define it as, really, dependent on your own level of interest and commitment.
Totally agree! I wish more folks got this. I guess I was referencing this:
What incentive is there to spend money on the various “here’s 1-3 covers for a 5 for $10-$50” offers? What incentive is there to chase a natural 5 to 550 over years of play and the very slow build from shards?
The very best 1* are use when boosted status. I go into lightning rounds or Sim where everyone is the same level (no boosted toons) it’s all Omega Red and Colossus. Top PVE teams are all Okoye or Apoc teams. I want to punch up a billion levels… all Shang or Kang. I want a counter to almost anything in the game, run Jane or Chasm (depending on what I’m countering). I think having these characters at 550 absolutely holds a ton of value even if Juggs or Spidey are a beast boosted (like many 550 5*s). I saw Vulture almost every match last week, but he’s not on the tier of those others I mentioned and if I really want to break into that echelon, then spending on those offers or going all in on vaults like March Madness does hold appeal.
I guess I’m saying that it can be both/and rather than either/or. 550 1*s can be a great asset and it doesn’t mean that these other characters an echelon higher lose their value suddenly.
Yep, if you want to dominate in shield sim or lightning rounds then you need to 550 a few of the 3 or 4 5* that are usable unboosted.
Now, you may ask, why on earth would anybody have any interest in dominating shield sim or LR? This is a mystery we may never solve, unfortunately.
Those questions are weird and you can tell they come from a non-550 roster. Natural 5* 550s are very very good when boosted, and the more 550s you have, the more chances to have a boosted one each week. So of course there's incentives to keep gaining those covers.
@Bowgentle said: Those questions are weird and you can tell they come from a non-550 roster. Natural 5* 550s are very very good when boosted, and the more 550s you have, the more chances to have a boosted one each week. So of course there's incentives to keep gaining those covers.
Eh, synthetic 5* are also very good when high level and boosted, though. It's just that the only supernatural 5s we're seeing right now are Juggernaut etc, because nobody legit has anyone else close to that level.
(Fwiw I have seen and fought against quite a few non-legit unnatural 672s and they're almost all insane).
I’ve been in 5* land forever it seems. I have 9 or so in the 500’s but gunned it when I realized I could exploit the Ascension vaults to gather my first gaggle of 550’s.
I’ve played this game since near the start, hell, just received my 9th Anniversary badge from the forums here. (Shoutout to all my 182 forumites who also got theirs!)
I’ve quit this game several times over.
I’ve run with the big alliances, and also ran my own small set.
I’ve been apart of the communities and witnessed all the changes over the years with the best of ‘em.
My take? These cash offers and vaults in the last couple of years have been borderline shocking at what they offer.
I’m not going to say they are a great value or anything as that is subjective, but they do offer a clear line for those to fast-track to 550. If you want to pay for it.
It’s a business. And I say again, as many posts before, it’s an old game. This is where the rubber meets the road.
I agree that things feel a bit like a sellout, but perhaps that’s the point.
I could be wrong, but until I see 6*’s released, that’s my take.
I agree Bow. By the way I don’t consider myself a “550 roster”. I’m like a “baby 550” if that makes sense. I just have the same three S tier characters- 1 PVE (Okoye) and 2 PVP (Shang/Jane)- that everyone else has who has benefitted from them being repeatedly offered in stores. I definitely feel the pain of not having a 550 Colossus or Omega as I see them the most even in standard pve. Chasm too, despite the few who complained about his nerf can really put a hurting on me.
So while I don’t have the arsenal of a legit 550 roster, I face them all the time. I will hunt a Juggs/Spidey 550 team all day. At 672, I’ll probably skip the same way I skip a lot of boosted 5s if I don’t have them at a decent level myself in favor of unboosted S-tier characters like Shang Jane. Would I rather face a 550 Shang/Jane or a 672 Deadpool, Elektra, Ronan, etc? Give me the glass canons all day please!
So I put the 1* in the usable when boosted category which is fine. They might even get bonus points for being usable more often because they’re boosted more often. But, the only point I was making was that their existence by no means lowers the value of the best characters in the game.
By the way, I hope to one day rapidly expand my arsenal to at least medium fish levels. I have 1121 standards that will help grow my 1a5s. But still hoping to luck into a re-run of the IM/Hawkeye offers first. So that number of tokens will just keep growing. I have a LOT of LL pulls. Enough to get at least a few of the heavy hitters to 550 status (I don’t understand the math on just how many but I’d say 3? On top of whoever the latest three are. Plus I imagine I could maybe get a 4* to 550 via bonus pulls/shards during that unhoarding). So going from 3 550s to 10 to choose from will be nice. Just waiting on a good enough set of latests to unhoard on. It’s been quite the lull since Omega Red tbh.
The low-tier ascended to 5*s are fantastic for many reasons.
Availability ... a bridge that accelerates progress ... the 1s're boosted slightly more once a month (8x 1s / 2/week) ... it's a long overdue way for an aggressive, hungry obsessed player to get into the fast lane, and backfill their roster while using these much quicker-to-build weapons.
I am an older than dirt player and I absolutely use my bought stable of 1>5s. Particularly Ditko, Juggs, Yelena (still makes me laugh that Yelena is viable now!), and IM35. Venom some. I blew it and missed MBW. Storm, Hawkeye .... ehhh, well, all gods characters got champ rewards
In the current PvP, I was running Shang with MThor, fine on offense (ofc!), but MThor isn't boosted and mine is "only" 470, so I was leaving out a precracked glass cannon for others to run over. Plenty of hits, no surprise. For the next push I put in 1>5Juggs, who is up to 527, and boosted to 600something, and all incoming ceased.
I also have an alt ... it's pretty old but I hadn't played it much for several years. It's finishing up the 3* tier, slooowly working on 4s. Playing it was a drag. Takes forever to iso each 3, forever to buy each slot, and the dilution in the 4* tier is SO bad, I actively avoid 4* covers on that account. It can't afford 150+ slots for 4s and the umpty-jillion iso to level'em. Already climbed that mountain on my 'real' account.
.... and then I bought it a 1>5 Juggs. Holy poompernickel. What an upgrade. Now it's actually fun to play, progress on that account has zoomed through some kind of roof. It even plays PvP a bit now ... 2, 6, maybe 10 matches per event ... this week it's gotten almost as many pts on defense as it has on offense.
@entrailbucket said: 672 Juggernaut has 600,000+ HP and does 250k or something on a headbutt. I have 6 672s this week, all usable, and I'm running Juggernaut.
@entrailbucket said: 672 Juggernaut has 600,000+ HP and does 250k or something on a headbutt.
Totally get it. But if I see you in PVP, my 550 SC/MT with boosts can take that 672 Jugg down no problem (board being willing).
I totally understand you can then reverse and take mine down but there isn't anything "scary" to me about a 672 Juggernaut as it was in the day of Chasm.
@LavaManLee said: @entrailbucket said: 672 Juggernaut has 600,000+ HP and does 250k or something on a headbutt. I have 6 672s this week, all usable, and I'm running Juggernaut. Totally get it. But if I see you in PVP, my 550 SC/MT with boosts can take that 672 Jugg down no problem (board being willing). I totally understand you can then reverse and take mine down but there isn't anything "scary" to me about a 672 Juggernaut as it was in the day of Chasm.
@LavaManLee said:
...and that's exactly why they need to do something about m'Thor.
@entrailbucket said: @LavaManLee said: @entrailbucket said: 672 Juggernaut has 600,000+ HP and does 250k or something on a headbutt. I have 6 672s this week, all usable, and I'm running Juggernaut. Totally get it. But if I see you in PVP, my 550 SC/MT with boosts can take that 672 Jugg down no problem (board being willing). I totally understand you can then reverse and take mine down but there isn't anything "scary" to me about a 672 Juggernaut as it was in the day of Chasm. ...and that's exactly why they need to do something about m'Thor.
@entrailbucket said:
Are we banging that drum again? Fine. Then my 550 OR/Okoye with boosts will take you down. Is that any better? Totally forgot you are on a "nerf MT" kick.
That's a bit of a leap. Surely if it's one win each, by that rationale they should do something about 1* Juggs too with his ridiculous headbutt. Or anyone else good. I targeted MThor teams in the last PvP because they were much quicker and less risky than the alternatives. I'm not anywhere close to 550s but the principle stands.
@LavaManLee said: @entrailbucket said: @LavaManLee said: @entrailbucket said: 672 Juggernaut has 600,000+ HP and does 250k or something on a headbutt. I have 6 672s this week, all usable, and I'm running Juggernaut. Totally get it. But if I see you in PVP, my 550 SC/MT with boosts can take that 672 Jugg down no problem (board being willing). I totally understand you can then reverse and take mine down but there isn't anything "scary" to me about a 672 Juggernaut as it was in the day of Chasm. ...and that's exactly why they need to do something about m'Thor. Are we banging that drum again? Fine. Then my 550 OR/Okoye with boosts will take you down. Is that any better? Totally forgot you are on a "nerf MT" kick.
I wouldn't be so confident about that one. Juggs gets 6 red, you lose.
I don't like how easy it is to 550 these 1*. They need to limit how often they're boosted.
@Scofie said: @entrailbucket said: @LavaManLee said: @entrailbucket said: 672 Juggernaut has 600,000+ HP and does 250k or something on a headbutt. I have 6 672s this week, all usable, and I'm running Juggernaut. Totally get it. But if I see you in PVP, my 550 SC/MT with boosts can take that 672 Jugg down no problem (board being willing). I totally understand you can then reverse and take mine down but there isn't anything "scary" to me about a 672 Juggernaut as it was in the day of Chasm. ...and that's exactly why they need to do something about m'Thor. That's a bit of a leap. Surely if it's one win each, by that rationale they should do something about 1* Juggs too with his ridiculous headbutt. Or anyone else good. I targeted MThor teams in the last PvP because they were much quicker and less risky than the alternatives. I'm not anywhere close to 550s but the principle stands.
@Scofie said:
I don't want to rehash the entire debate, because everyone knows where everyone else stands. I just think an unboosted team that can trivially punch up 100+ levels, slice through over a million health, and ignore any active powers the other team might have, is a problem.
Okoye/Omega Red, SW/Colossus, Shang-Chi with someone else, even the various Kang or Polaris nonsense teams -- they all have their place and they're all very strong, but none of them can beat literally anything you throw them at the way m'Thor can.
Not sure why people say juggie kills self with thAt red
Couldn't you hook that one support that heals after every match to keep juggie alive
Have they ever updated when support can be used in pvp
I've no problem with people winning on offence. You can build any number of teams for that. My point was that I used 2 boosted (admittedly one was SC) and only lost once on offence. Me v SC/mThor was like 20 - 0, though I avoided very high level ones. Ascended Polaris gave me a closer run on one occasion. Boosted 1ascended5*s I avoided if they were at a high level (600+) but hit the others.
@entrailbucket said: @Scofie said: @entrailbucket said: @LavaManLee said: @entrailbucket said: 672 Juggernaut has 600,000+ HP and does 250k or something on a headbutt. I have 6 672s this week, all usable, and I'm running Juggernaut. Totally get it. But if I see you in PVP, my 550 SC/MT with boosts can take that 672 Jugg down no problem (board being willing). I totally understand you can then reverse and take mine down but there isn't anything "scary" to me about a 672 Juggernaut as it was in the day of Chasm. ...and that's exactly why they need to do something about m'Thor. That's a bit of a leap. Surely if it's one win each, by that rationale they should do something about 1* Juggs too with his ridiculous headbutt. Or anyone else good. I targeted MThor teams in the last PvP because they were much quicker and less risky than the alternatives. I'm not anywhere close to 550s but the principle stands. I don't want to rehash the entire debate, because everyone knows where everyone else stands. I just think an unboosted team that can trivially punch up 100+ levels, slice through over a million health, and ignore any active powers the other team might have, is a problem. Okoye/Omega Red, SW/Colossus, Shang-Chi with someone else, even the various Kang or Polaris nonsense teams -- they all have their place and they're all very strong, but none of them can beat literally anything you throw them at the way m'Thor can.
Your mThor must be a whole lot better than my mThor
She can be quite efficient and strong, sure, but also board dependent. A slot machine pull. To more reliably punch way up she needs boosts and a strong synergistic partner or two.