Classic Legends Pack Overhaul Survey

entrailbucket

A few people in this very thread are saying some version of that!

The sentiment is also pretty universal in Line and in Discord, and anyplace else that high level players congregate.

The real problem is that when everyone follows the same roster building strategy, everyone ends up with the same roster. And fighting against 1000 players that all have the same roster makes for a pretty boring metagame.

Bowgentle

@Zarqa said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
It's just weird. I get frustrated, because I've been doing the classics/farming thing forever and it works for me, but for years, every time I'd talk about it, people would either tell me my actual experience was wrong and it didn't actually work, or make increasingly bizarre excuses for why it only worked for me and could never work for anyone else (you've been playing forever, you're in a top alliance (ha, not anymore!), you're not free to play, etc).

Now there is an actual documented example of another player doing the same thing, and it working exactly the same way, and plenty of others offering similar evidence. PLUS they've significantly improved classics relatively recently, and people are STILL like "nope classics are awful, won't ever pull unless they do [insert X completely unrealistic thing]"

Where are people saying that?

Discord definitely has some people who are convinced pulling Classics is a waste of CP, and hoarding for Anniversary or a 550 pull is the only way to go

Well if they want to compete, they're not wrong.
Classics will get all of your 5s up evenly, but to get all to 500 you're looking at, I dunno, 5 years?
And then you'll have guys like Abby at 500.
It's A LOT faster to get the 10 5s that really matter to 500+, from special stores.
I'm not sure I'd bet on MPQ being around for another 5 years.

Phumade

@Zarqa said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
It's just weird. I get frustrated, because I've been doing the classics/farming thing forever and it works for me, but for years, every time I'd talk about it, people would either tell me my actual experience was wrong and it didn't actually work, or make increasingly bizarre excuses for why it only worked for me and could never work for anyone else (you've been playing forever, you're in a top alliance (ha, not anymore!), you're not free to play, etc).

Now there is an actual documented example of another player doing the same thing, and it working exactly the same way, and plenty of others offering similar evidence. PLUS they've significantly improved classics relatively recently, and people are STILL like "nope classics are awful, won't ever pull unless they do [insert X completely unrealistic thing]"

Where are people saying that?

Discord definitely has some people who are convinced pulling Classics is a waste of CP, and hoarding for Anniversary or a 550 pull is the only way to go

Let me reframe the discussion. When people say classic, it means spend cp. The main implication here is do you spend to complete old 5s or focus on champing new 5*. I.E. its an either or choice.

but the new bonus shards, 5* favorites, 20% resource uplifit etc. means you can still ride the LL 5* champ train, get credit for a random array of 5* classics, and have a 5* favorite that moves relatively fast.

The main difference between now and 1 year ago is simply that:
1. People credibly believe tha bonus and favorites are enough to make meaningful gains. vs rng get luck

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:
A few people in this very thread are saying some version of that!

The sentiment is also pretty universal in Line and in Discord, and anyplace else that high level players congregate.

The real problem is that when everyone follows the same roster building strategy, everyone ends up with the same roster. And fighting against 1000 players that all have the same roster makes for a pretty boring metagame.

Do you mean me? If so then no, I am just saying letting others choose the boosted characters doesn't benefit me personally, not anything else. Otherwise who cares what other players say? Play your own MPQ. 😎

entrailbucket

@Bowgentle said:

@Zarqa said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
It's just weird. I get frustrated, because I've been doing the classics/farming thing forever and it works for me, but for years, every time I'd talk about it, people would either tell me my actual experience was wrong and it didn't actually work, or make increasingly bizarre excuses for why it only worked for me and could never work for anyone else (you've been playing forever, you're in a top alliance (ha, not anymore!), you're not free to play, etc).

Now there is an actual documented example of another player doing the same thing, and it working exactly the same way, and plenty of others offering similar evidence. PLUS they've significantly improved classics relatively recently, and people are STILL like "nope classics are awful, won't ever pull unless they do [insert X completely unrealistic thing]"

Where are people saying that?

Discord definitely has some people who are convinced pulling Classics is a waste of CP, and hoarding for Anniversary or a 550 pull is the only way to go

Well if they want to compete, they're not wrong.
Classics will get all of your 5s up evenly, but to get all to 500 you're looking at, I dunno, 5 years?
And then you'll have guys like Abby at 500.
It's A LOT faster to get the 10 5s that really matter to 500+, from special stores.
I'm not sure I'd bet on MPQ being around for another 5 years.

I don't get this either. If the game is ending in a few years, would you really want to spend two of those years hoarding, making ZERO roster progress?

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
A few people in this very thread are saying some version of that!

The sentiment is also pretty universal in Line and in Discord, and anyplace else that high level players congregate.

The real problem is that when everyone follows the same roster building strategy, everyone ends up with the same roster. And fighting against 1000 players that all have the same roster makes for a pretty boring metagame.

Do you mean me? If so then no, I am just saying letting others choose the boosted characters doesn't benefit me personally, not anything else. Otherwise who cares what other players say? Play your own MPQ. 😎

Not you. And like I said, I can't play my own MPQ. You can only play this game against other people, and every other player I match with has EXACTLY the same roster, because they all follow exactly the same roster building strategy.

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
A few people in this very thread are saying some version of that!

The sentiment is also pretty universal in Line and in Discord, and anyplace else that high level players congregate.

The real problem is that when everyone follows the same roster building strategy, everyone ends up with the same roster. And fighting against 1000 players that all have the same roster makes for a pretty boring metagame.

Do you mean me? If so then no, I am just saying letting others choose the boosted characters doesn't benefit me personally, not anything else. Otherwise who cares what other players say? Play your own MPQ. 😎

Not you. And like I said, I can't play my own MPQ. You can only play this game against other people, and every other player I match with has EXACTLY the same roster, because they all follow exactly the same roster building strategy.

The Sheep syndrome in MPQ is definitely high. A lot of that comes from the artificial player created concept of "defensive teams". Which is sort of strange considering PvE is the main game. I dunno how you change or fix that. Maybe the Devs should unleash this new MMR we will all hate, maybe it might be OK?

Phumade

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
A few people in this very thread are saying some version of that!

The sentiment is also pretty universal in Line and in Discord, and anyplace else that high level players congregate.

The real problem is that when everyone follows the same roster building strategy, everyone ends up with the same roster. And fighting against 1000 players that all have the same roster makes for a pretty boring metagame.

Do you mean me? If so then no, I am just saying letting others choose the boosted characters doesn't benefit me personally, not anything else. Otherwise who cares what other players say? Play your own MPQ. 😎

Not you. And like I said, I can't play my own MPQ. You can only play this game against other people, and every other player I match with has EXACTLY the same roster, because they all follow exactly the same roster building strategy.

The Sheep syndrome in MPQ is definitely high. A lot of that comes from the artificial player created concept of "defensive teams". Which is sort of strange considering PvE is the main game. I dunno how you change or fix that. Maybe the Devs should unleash this new MMR we will all hate, maybe it might be OK?

thats funny I always though the main game was PVP and pve was the reward cover factory

Bowgentle

@entrailbucket said:

@Bowgentle said:

@Zarqa said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
It's just weird. I get frustrated, because I've been doing the classics/farming thing forever and it works for me, but for years, every time I'd talk about it, people would either tell me my actual experience was wrong and it didn't actually work, or make increasingly bizarre excuses for why it only worked for me and could never work for anyone else (you've been playing forever, you're in a top alliance (ha, not anymore!), you're not free to play, etc).

Now there is an actual documented example of another player doing the same thing, and it working exactly the same way, and plenty of others offering similar evidence. PLUS they've significantly improved classics relatively recently, and people are STILL like "nope classics are awful, won't ever pull unless they do [insert X completely unrealistic thing]"

Where are people saying that?

Discord definitely has some people who are convinced pulling Classics is a waste of CP, and hoarding for Anniversary or a 550 pull is the only way to go

Well if they want to compete, they're not wrong.
Classics will get all of your 5s up evenly, but to get all to 500 you're looking at, I dunno, 5 years?
And then you'll have guys like Abby at 500.
It's A LOT faster to get the 10 5s that really matter to 500+, from special stores.
I'm not sure I'd bet on MPQ being around for another 5 years.

I don't get this either. If the game is ending in a few years, would you really want to spend two of those years hoarding, making ZERO roster progress?

Why hoard two years?
This month you can make progress on Colossus via the Omega release store.
There's vaults with colourless 5* shards.
There's a vault with KK and Storm.

I'm not saying go all in on one char, I'm saying level about 10 instead of bottom feeders like Abby and Odin.

DAZ0273

@Phumade said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
A few people in this very thread are saying some version of that!

The sentiment is also pretty universal in Line and in Discord, and anyplace else that high level players congregate.

The real problem is that when everyone follows the same roster building strategy, everyone ends up with the same roster. And fighting against 1000 players that all have the same roster makes for a pretty boring metagame.

Do you mean me? If so then no, I am just saying letting others choose the boosted characters doesn't benefit me personally, not anything else. Otherwise who cares what other players say? Play your own MPQ. 😎

Not you. And like I said, I can't play my own MPQ. You can only play this game against other people, and every other player I match with has EXACTLY the same roster, because they all follow exactly the same roster building strategy.

The Sheep syndrome in MPQ is definitely high. A lot of that comes from the artificial player created concept of "defensive teams". Which is sort of strange considering PvE is the main game. I dunno how you change or fix that. Maybe the Devs should unleash this new MMR we will all hate, maybe it might be OK?

thats funny I always though the main game was PVP and pve was the reward cover factory

If PvP is the main game then why does it have less engagement?

entrailbucket

@Bowgentle said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Bowgentle said:

@Zarqa said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
It's just weird. I get frustrated, because I've been doing the classics/farming thing forever and it works for me, but for years, every time I'd talk about it, people would either tell me my actual experience was wrong and it didn't actually work, or make increasingly bizarre excuses for why it only worked for me and could never work for anyone else (you've been playing forever, you're in a top alliance (ha, not anymore!), you're not free to play, etc).

Now there is an actual documented example of another player doing the same thing, and it working exactly the same way, and plenty of others offering similar evidence. PLUS they've significantly improved classics relatively recently, and people are STILL like "nope classics are awful, won't ever pull unless they do [insert X completely unrealistic thing]"

Where are people saying that?

Discord definitely has some people who are convinced pulling Classics is a waste of CP, and hoarding for Anniversary or a 550 pull is the only way to go

Well if they want to compete, they're not wrong.
Classics will get all of your 5s up evenly, but to get all to 500 you're looking at, I dunno, 5 years?
And then you'll have guys like Abby at 500.
It's A LOT faster to get the 10 5s that really matter to 500+, from special stores.
I'm not sure I'd bet on MPQ being around for another 5 years.

I don't get this either. If the game is ending in a few years, would you really want to spend two of those years hoarding, making ZERO roster progress?

Why hoard two years?
This month you can make progress on Colossus via the Omega release store.
There's vaults with colourless 5* shards.
There's a vault with KK and Storm.

I'm not saying go all in on one char, I'm saying level about 10 instead of bottom feeders like Abby and Odin.

I mean, nobody is targeting Abigail and Odin. But if I accidentally pull their covers I'm not going to die -- they give champion rewards like everyone else, and someday they might get a boost week or get rebalanced.

Phumade

@DAZ0273 said:

@Phumade said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
A few people in this very thread are saying some version of that!

The sentiment is also pretty universal in Line and in Discord, and anyplace else that high level players congregate.

The real problem is that when everyone follows the same roster building strategy, everyone ends up with the same roster. And fighting against 1000 players that all have the same roster makes for a pretty boring metagame.

Do you mean me? If so then no, I am just saying letting others choose the boosted characters doesn't benefit me personally, not anything else. Otherwise who cares what other players say? Play your own MPQ. 😎

Not you. And like I said, I can't play my own MPQ. You can only play this game against other people, and every other player I match with has EXACTLY the same roster, because they all follow exactly the same roster building strategy.

The Sheep syndrome in MPQ is definitely high. A lot of that comes from the artificial player created concept of "defensive teams". Which is sort of strange considering PvE is the main game. I dunno how you change or fix that. Maybe the Devs should unleash this new MMR we will all hate, maybe it might be OK?

thats funny I always though the main game was PVP and pve was the reward cover factory

If PvP is the main game then why does it have less engagement?

Does it? I've done my share of 200 match events. lol. But seriously, I always thought pve was the reward factory that built your roster and the real game was playing pvp, chasing stones and event, season placements.

let me clarify. PVE is very much a solved game. The best paths, timings, and build teams are more or less solved. Yes, its very much an execution dependent, but the strategy is well understood.

Pvp is dependent on so many different play variables and understanding opponent psycology. Keeping point pressure, forcing out hops. For me personally, pvp and LR have always been the best gamemode with the best dynamics.

I don't play LRs anymore because the chars are so boring and stale, but I really enjoy the ability to go against xcross other shard names and using a much more aggressive hit and shield playstyle. Especially with the short durations and easy to play an LR from start to finish

Zarqa

@Phumade said:

Let me reframe the discussion. When people say classic, it means spend cp. The main implication here is do you spend to complete old 5s or focus on champing new 5*. I.E. its an either or choice.

For me, and I assume several others here, it’s slightly different. Champing new 5* can be done purely through LL tokens and the LL Train without spending CP, so the question is rather how do you spend CP outside of champing latest?

1. Steady frequent pulls from Classics to grow all
2. Hoard enough to pull for 550s
3. Hoard for Anniversary
4. Pull more from LLs for a specific good trio
5. Wait until a specific release store arrives with a desired 5 and unhoard there
6. Wait until a specific classic 14x trio arrived with a desired 5 and unhoard there

I think 1-3 are all individual choices on how you like to play the game as others have mentioned. But somehow 1. is frowned on more than 2 & 3. The recent changes make 1. better even.

For 5 & 6, I think 6 is a really bad strategy and I think the 14x can be misleading to many.

ThaRoadWarrior

PVP is the only place to play against new characters, so to me that’s always been “the big leagues” even though I don’t chase placement outside of whatever points I get on my way to full progression. I feel you’ll get as many answers to what is the “real” game as people you ask.

entrailbucket

@Zarqa And that's what I've been saying for years!

People should play how they want and build their roster how they want, but make sure you think about those strategies, and do the things that support the play style you want, instead of just doing whatever somebody said was "optimal."

We used to get posts here all the time from players complaining that hoarding was boring, or that they hated using the same characters over and over, but they felt they had to play that way because it was "optimal."

That's insane! It's a game and it should be fun. The difference between these strategies is really close, so do the thing that's fun for you! Don't kill your enjoyment of the game for a 1% advantage!

Bowgentle

@entrailbucket said:
And that's what I've been saying for years!

People should play how they want and build their roster how they want, but make sure you think about those strategies, and do the things that support the play style you want, instead of just doing whatever somebody said was "optimal."

We used to get posts here all the time from players complaining that hoarding was boring, or that they hated using the same characters over and over, but they felt they had to play that way because it was "optimal."

That's insane! It's a game and it should be fun. The difference between these strategies is really close, so do the thing that's fun for you! Don't kill your enjoyment of the game for a 1% advantage!

That I can get behind 100%!
If hoarding is boring for you, don't do it!
If you're crazy cat hoarder like Nonnel, do it!
If you're somewhere in between, do it!

DAZ0273

@Phumade said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@Phumade said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
A few people in this very thread are saying some version of that!

The sentiment is also pretty universal in Line and in Discord, and anyplace else that high level players congregate.

The real problem is that when everyone follows the same roster building strategy, everyone ends up with the same roster. And fighting against 1000 players that all have the same roster makes for a pretty boring metagame.

Do you mean me? If so then no, I am just saying letting others choose the boosted characters doesn't benefit me personally, not anything else. Otherwise who cares what other players say? Play your own MPQ. 😎

Not you. And like I said, I can't play my own MPQ. You can only play this game against other people, and every other player I match with has EXACTLY the same roster, because they all follow exactly the same roster building strategy.

The Sheep syndrome in MPQ is definitely high. A lot of that comes from the artificial player created concept of "defensive teams". Which is sort of strange considering PvE is the main game. I dunno how you change or fix that. Maybe the Devs should unleash this new MMR we will all hate, maybe it might be OK?

thats funny I always though the main game was PVP and pve was the reward cover factory

If PvP is the main game then why does it have less engagement?

Does it? I've done my share of 200 match events. lol. But seriously, I always thought pve was the reward factory that built your roster and the real game was playing pvp, chasing stones and event, season placements.

let me clarify. PVE is very much a solved game. The best paths, timings, and build teams are more or less solved. Yes, its very much an execution dependent, but the strategy is well understood.

Pvp is dependent on so many different play variables and understanding opponent psycology. Keeping point pressure, forcing out hops. For me personally, pvp and LR have always been the best gamemode with the best dynamics.

I don't play LRs anymore because the chars are so boring and stale, but I really enjoy the ability to go against xcross other shard names and using a much more aggressive hit and shield playstyle. Especially with the short durations and easy to play an LR from start to finish

The fact that you are talking in some sort of MPQ high level club speak probably solves this riddle but mainly coz the Devs said several times over the years - but I dunno for sure. I prefer PvP myself.

DAZ0273

Hoarding is boring but hoarding- lite is the best in-between.

ThaRoadWarrior

Is “hoarding-lite” just…saving up?

entrailbucket

@Bowgentle said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Bowgentle said:

@Zarqa said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:
It's just weird. I get frustrated, because I've been doing the classics/farming thing forever and it works for me, but for years, every time I'd talk about it, people would either tell me my actual experience was wrong and it didn't actually work, or make increasingly bizarre excuses for why it only worked for me and could never work for anyone else (you've been playing forever, you're in a top alliance (ha, not anymore!), you're not free to play, etc).

Now there is an actual documented example of another player doing the same thing, and it working exactly the same way, and plenty of others offering similar evidence. PLUS they've significantly improved classics relatively recently, and people are STILL like "nope classics are awful, won't ever pull unless they do [insert X completely unrealistic thing]"

Where are people saying that?

Discord definitely has some people who are convinced pulling Classics is a waste of CP, and hoarding for Anniversary or a 550 pull is the only way to go

Well if they want to compete, they're not wrong.
Classics will get all of your 5s up evenly, but to get all to 500 you're looking at, I dunno, 5 years?
And then you'll have guys like Abby at 500.
It's A LOT faster to get the 10 5s that really matter to 500+, from special stores.
I'm not sure I'd bet on MPQ being around for another 5 years.

I don't get this either. If the game is ending in a few years, would you really want to spend two of those years hoarding, making ZERO roster progress?

Why hoard two years?
This month you can make progress on Colossus via the Omega release store.
There's vaults with colourless 5* shards.
There's a vault with KK and Storm.

I'm not saying go all in on one char, I'm saying level about 10 instead of bottom feeders like Abby and Odin.

Also worth noting...not too long ago, you could have replaced "Abigail and Odin" with "Phoenix and Surfer" in your statement. Going after those two characters would've been non-optimal, because they were terrible.

But this week I'm running Surfer/Phoenix, and that team has 900,000 combined HP and can oneshot Chasm off any power, or even a critical match.

Characters that are bad now aren't necessarily going to be bad forever.