***** Kang (The Conqueror) *****

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@Bowgentle said:
I mean the easiest way to make PVE harder is to finally run Simulator again.
I don't know why that was shelved, it was the only PVE with challenging nodes.

It's almost certainly due to their engagement metrics. Lower tier players just didn't play Simulator at all -- even in CL10 there were way fewer brackets that filled much more slowly. Always remember that we don't matter, the devs are concerned with the 95%, not us (the top 5%).

Well now the 95% have 3* Kang so no reason not to run it again.

Bad

Yeah, we could be the 5% . But the game has been running for 9 years, it's pretty possible that a lot of players own a powerful roster.
I'm playing for half the time, my top character doesn't reach lv 500 yet, and I feel there is no challenge for me.
Design Nightmare levels, make them appear with sparks, thunders, flames or skulls, but do something for strong players!
If everyone skip them, no problem.
Perhaps in time when people decide to grown up stronger more people will engage it.

captainheath

I agree. The old gauntlet type of event that went away a long time ago was a motivator. Could I develop my roster to beat it? That was fun.

It was also fun back when the four star DDP started and it was a challenge to actually win a legendary with an undercovered toon.

entrailbucket

@Bad said:
Yeah, we could be the 5% . But the game has been running for 9 years, it's pretty possible that a lot of players own a powerful roster.
I'm playing for half the time, my top character doesn't reach lv 500 yet, and I feel there is no challenge for me.
Design Nightmare levels, make them appear with sparks, thunders, flames or skulls, but do something for strong players!
If everyone skip them, no problem.
Perhaps in time when people decide to grown up stronger more people will engage it.

Yeah, so the problem is: how do you design a "nightmare" level right now?

You can maybe make a fight where one of the cheesy infinite teams can't win, but at this point there are like 8 or 10 of them. If one won't work, we can all just switch to a different cheesy infinite team. These teams can beat enemies of infinite level 100% of the time.

There's simply no way to make a fight difficult now.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@Bad said:
Yeah, we could be the 5% . But the game has been running for 9 years, it's pretty possible that a lot of players own a powerful roster.
I'm playing for half the time, my top character doesn't reach lv 500 yet, and I feel there is no challenge for me.
Design Nightmare levels, make them appear with sparks, thunders, flames or skulls, but do something for strong players!
If everyone skip them, no problem.
Perhaps in time when people decide to grown up stronger more people will engage it.

Yeah, so the problem is: how do you design a "nightmare" level right now?

You can maybe make a fight where one of the cheesy infinite teams can't win, but at this point there are like 8 or 10 of them. If one won't work, we can all just switch to a different cheesy infinite team. These teams can beat enemies of infinite level 100% of the time.

There's simply no way to make a fight difficult now.

Using the current win conditions now in PvE that's true. But if they were designing a CL11 (Nightmare level etc) and they changed the rules of how PvE worked for that new CL that wouldn't be true.

For example they could remove the use of supports and boosts (so team up powers only), allow no stuns (like they do in the 4* character intro battle) and set it so you have to win the battle in X number of turns. Stuff like that would add a new level of challenge. They could also modify how damage (match/power) works so that damaged characters do less damage (say at 75% health you do 75% power/match damage, at 50% you do 50% power/match damage and at 25% you do 25% power/damage) to throw in another new wrinkle. Tons of stuff could be done increase the challenge or get players to think outside the box/create new teams etc.

KGB

entrailbucket

You're right. I was remembering the Gauntlet, which had really difficult fights that operated without breaking the rules of the game. That's why Gauntlet can never come back.

With the level of power that players have access to now, you'd absolutely have to change the rules to make a fight difficult.

I really don't know how that would go over though. You'd have to make it explicitly optional (and, potentially, non-optimal) or the level of salt they'd get from the usual suspects ("this is terrible for the future of the game!!!") would be overwhelming.

Scofie

I guess you could run Gauntlet with the limit that once you had won with someone in the roster, you couldn't use them again. So it's really a longer term strategy/depth of roster-type event than a 5*Kang aways everyone (in a flaky attempt to be even slightly on topic).

Phumade

What made Gauntlet hard was the no mirror characters. The main point to remember was that we had much more limited attack "Vectors" (I simply mean playstyles like, Special Tiles, Nukes, Stun lockers, away etc). So the game could exclude a "playstyle" with good team construction. In the current environment, we have so many different avenues to attack and finish a match that the "no mirror chars" isn't really relevant for end tier accounts.

Bad

It's even simpler, I said it before.
Just add a win condition on a pve node, kind of like puzzle gauntlet.
Win condition of this CN: one enemy must be downed with an AoE power.
Now try it, many winfinite teams are out.

allen_koholic

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@bladewing said:
What do you guys mean by constantly processing?

I don't have 5*Kang yet, so I can't check.

Do you mean, like banners popping up every turn? Does it slow the game down?

Yeah, it's not a significant amount of delay, but it's a delay. The banner pops up every turn, sometimes multiple times a turn, depending on what you do. I'm not sure if there's an animation because I have those turned off.

No animation beyond the banner, just advises you that Realm Shift is doing...something? No idea what.

Has this been addressed? It's popping even when he's stunned.

Mr_F

@Bad said:
Now try it, many winfinite teams are out.

The Wasp is ON! Her winnfinite is AOE. ^_^

allen_koholic

Does Chasm's super stun at the start of the match prevent supports from firing their "at the beginning of the match" abilities? I haven't seen him in PVE to know. That would stop any worry about Kang autowins and make a difficult time.

dianetics

Chasm has not shown up in PvE, but I doubt it. Since supports aren't characters abilities.
It also wouldn't do much about the autowin. Instead of 3 turns it would be like 5-6 turns with boosts.

allen_koholic

@dianetics said:
Chasm has not shown up in PvE, but I doubt it. Since supports aren't characters abilities.
It also wouldn't do much about the autowin. Instead of 3 turns it would be like 5-6 turns with boosts.

Chasm's AP drain might slow that down even further. Blue isn't a top power though, so it won't drain as quickly.

entrailbucket

I would not want to be on this forum the day Chasm shows up in PvE.

Bowgentle

@entrailbucket said:

I would not want to be on this forum the day Chasm shows up in PvE.

Enemy of the state.
Calling it.

allen_koholic

@entrailbucket said:
I would not want to be on this forum the day Chasm shows up in PvE.

Nope. But as a super-hard challenge node, he's ... I mean it'll still suck donkey ****. But we won't be able to easily cheese our way out it.

Bowgentle

Also, you WANT to be here.
You'll get to see the world burn.

entrailbucket

@Bowgentle said:
Also, you WANT to be here.
You'll get to see the world burn.

Yeah that's true!

Punisher5784

@Bowgentle said:
Also, you WANT to be here.
You'll get to see the world burn.

Challenge node will be Team Immortal every day for 7 days!